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Topic Options
#818082 - 03/12/02 09:35 AM Re: Rich Dad, Poor Dad
Brendan Offline


Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5331
Loc: McAllen, TX
 Quote:
Originally posted by George061875:
but there is something just a little, and in some cases, a lot off with them. And no, their parents never see it, of course.
[/b]


 Quote:

You knew someone would figure out a way to make money off of these people!.[/b]



 Quote:
What has always struck me as strange about home schoolers is that when you ask them why, it is usually based on fear of what they perceive is going on in the schools, fear of what their kids are being taught, fear of how their kids develop in a social setting in school.
[/b]

 Quote:

Isn't if a far better life lesson for kids to be exposed to something...rather than not be exposed to it and then have it dumped on them later when they have been given no resources to help them handle it?[/b]


Sweeping, sweeping generalizations and paranoia.
_________________________
http://www.BrendanKinsella.com

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Piano & Music Accessories
#818083 - 03/12/02 09:56 AM Re: Rich Dad, Poor Dad
Anonymous
Unregistered


 Quote:
Originally posted by shantinik:
[

She still has to clean her room.... \:\)[/b]


I had three thoughts as I read this article.

1. The writer obviously wants to link this young girl's accomplishments to home schooling. She is obviously highly gifted -- what 20 month old demands to play the violin?! -- but her accomplishments are not because of home schooling; she is naturally highly gifted. However, this is typical of so many people (like Dr. Laura on the right or Jesse Jackson on the left) who take an extreme and link it to their own cause as if it is the norm.

2. How sad her parents have done this to her and have not even had the good sense to get her into a school environment where she can develop as a total person. It would be interesting to see how she is doing at age 30 or, better yet, 40 to see if she is a well rounded, well developed adult or if she is just some highly cerebral, highly goal oriented human being.

3. Why in the world would her parents have allowed press coverage of her, as if she is some freak in an academic circus?

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#818084 - 03/12/02 11:15 AM Re: Rich Dad, Poor Dad
shantinik Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/23/01
Posts: 4271
Loc: Olympia, WA
 Quote:
Originally posted by George061875:


I had three thoughts as I read this article.
[/b]


As to your three thoughts:

1. You don't know my daughter.

2. You don't know my daughter.

3. Press release came from Johns Hopkins University Center for Talented Youth. Interview was daughter's choice. I'm sure your local newspaper never runs articles about kids in school, not even in the sports section,

You could have phrased your thoughts as questions and entered into intelligent dialogue.

I think it is your public school education showing through.

[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: shantinik ]

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#818085 - 03/12/02 11:44 AM Re: Rich Dad, Poor Dad
PianoMuse Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 902
Loc: Philly, PA
Brendan, how do you not believe a word of that? I went to a public school in Newark, New Jersey. Some of my friends from high school are dead (and i only graduated 2 years ago)from being killed in jail or by competing drug dealers, because the area was extremely rough. There was lots of corruption in the school system, lots of money being fielded into areas that had nothing to do with the school.( such as board member's wallets). My dad is chief of police, so i knew a lot of the stuff that was going on. why does it suprise you that there are such problems?
_________________________
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music." ~Rachmaninoff

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#818086 - 03/12/02 11:53 AM Re: Rich Dad, Poor Dad
Brendan Offline


Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5331
Loc: McAllen, TX
Because you made it sound like a mob movie...

And no, problems such as these don't surprise me at all.
_________________________
http://www.BrendanKinsella.com

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#818087 - 03/12/02 12:03 PM Re: Rich Dad, Poor Dad
shantinik Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/23/01
Posts: 4271
Loc: Olympia, WA
 Quote:
Originally posted by pique:


and where is shantinik? didn't he write a book about home schooling?[/b]



Yup! And a second one coming out in late fall: "Homeschooling and the Voyage of Self-Discovery: A Journey of Original Seeking" (Common Courage Press, 2002).

You can read a recent column of mine in Home Education Magazine at:
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com/HEM/192/magatto.html

(But I don't visit this part of the site very often.)

[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: shantinik ]

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#818088 - 03/12/02 12:22 PM Re: Rich Dad, Poor Dad
iainhp Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 803
Loc: San Diego
Nici - I can't speak for all school districts but here in San Diego Unified, the school publishes documents for home schooling. They outline what is to be achieved (taught) at each grade level. Believe you are also given a teacher/counselor (don't know what that person is called) that you have to contact on a regular basis to discuss progress. Home schooling is not just a case of taking the kids out of school and teaching them anything you want (though I'm sure there are ways around this).

What do you do with kids in Germany who are unable to regularly attend school (actors, pop stars, kids not able to attend due to long term illness or anxietys)?

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#818089 - 03/12/02 12:40 PM Re: Rich Dad, Poor Dad
Anonymous
Unregistered


 Quote:
Originally posted by shantinik:



You could have phrased your thoughts as questions and entered into intelligent dialogue.

I think it is your public school education showing through.

[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: shantinik ][/b]


Actually, I phrased them as my own reactions to the article. Intelligent conversation often flows when people express reactions, unless someone takes those reactions as a personal attack. Then there are others who consider intelligent conversation as only occuring when THEY are asked questions about which they can pontificate.

You could have responded to my comments with information and entered into an intelligent dialogue.

Re: my public school education: In the 19 years of my education from kindergarten through a Master's degree, I spent of total of 2 1/2 years in public schools -- one year in kindergarten and 1 1/2 years in college (undergraduate).

I have also read the article you wrote for the Home Ed magazine and linked to this page. In the future, you may wish to tone down your caustic, sarcastic comments. It will lead to more thoughtful and intelligent dialogue.

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#818090 - 03/12/02 01:34 PM Re: Rich Dad, Poor Dad
Penny Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2943
Loc: San Juan Capistrano, CA
George wrote:

 Quote:
there is something just a little, and in some cases, a lot off with them. And no, their parents never see it, of course.


I think what you are sensing is innocence. Home schoolers are more sheltered than private school kids, who are more sheltered than public school kids. Now, you may think this is an entirely bad thing to do. But I disagree! There is plenty of time to "grow up." Yes, our children will eventually deal with drugs, sexuality, pregnancy, evil, etc. (that is, unless we hide them in a closet all their life), but why do they have to deal with these things in elementary school!

It is a parent's right to decide when to expose the challenges of life to our children. Indeed, one child may learn of these situations earlier or later than a sibling because the parents deemed the time for this revelation to be correct. Why take this decision out of the hands of parents and shove it down the children's throats whether they are prepared to deal with it or not?!

I say, enjoy the innocence of homeschoolers. Yes, there may be some adjustment as they enter the real world. But good parenting will accommodate that. In the meantime, enjoy the sweetness! It really is refreshing.


penny
not a home-schooler

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#818091 - 03/12/02 01:42 PM Re: Rich Dad, Poor Dad
Brendan Offline


Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5331
Loc: McAllen, TX
Maybe shantinik's daugher would like to post and give us the perspective child being currently homeschooled? (either complementing or being in opposition to what nancy has already graciously offered us)
_________________________
http://www.BrendanKinsella.com

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#818092 - 03/12/02 01:51 PM Re: Rich Dad, Poor Dad
Derick Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 3290
Loc: New York
Whether you home-school or not, it's obvious that you all care very deeply about your children. There are an awful lot of parent's out there who don't. That, I believe, is one of the primary reasons home-schooling got started.

Derick
_________________________
Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.

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#818093 - 03/12/02 02:37 PM Re: Rich Dad, Poor Dad
Brendan Offline


Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5331
Loc: McAllen, TX
Okay, I have to comment on one more thing before I lock myself in a practice room until 8 or so.

I'm not too keen on the idea that home schooled children are sheltered or overtly innocent. A well-rounded home-schooling program (or even home life, for that matter) will introduce the children to things otuside of the home.

I accompany for a young girl who is home schooled (and indeed gifted in many ways, both musically and intellectually). Her parents have her involved in orchestra, sports, and church activities that keep her in the social loop. Not to mention that she is a nice girl anyway with an amiable personality.

I don't think that home schooled children are any less social than those that go to public school. If anything, there's less alienation from cliques, less harassment from the in crowd, and less peer pressure. Look at some of the poor kids drudging through middle and high school, having a horrible time trying to fit in and tell me which you think is better mentally for the child.
_________________________
http://www.BrendanKinsella.com

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#818094 - 03/12/02 05:06 PM Re: Rich Dad, Poor Dad
T2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 341
I kinda think it depends on the parents.

Sometimes you have parents with a social agenda that use the schools as a battleground for their own ideas. And their kids are pawns in that war. So, I'm not surprised to see them take their kids out of schools. Bottom line: They've got an axe to grind.

But this doesn't describe all home-schooling parents. Some parents just think they can do a better job. And maybe they can. I've certainly met some nice, well-adjusted home-schooled kids that do very well and aren't pawns in an ideological war.

T2
(Who dropped out of high school and went straight to the University. Not a recommended solution unless you have a compelling reason, such as parental drugs, to remove yourself from your own home.)

[ March 13, 2002: Message edited by: T2 ]

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#818095 - 03/12/02 07:13 PM Re: Rich Dad, Poor Dad
Penny Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2943
Loc: San Juan Capistrano, CA
Brendan wrote:

 Quote:
I'm not too keen on the idea that home schooled children are sheltered or overtly innocent. A well-rounded home-schooling program (or even home life, for that matter) will introduce the children to things otuside of the home.


But, I said:

 Quote:
Yes, our children will eventually deal with drugs, sexuality, pregnancy, evil, etc.


I'm not talking about being sheltered from friends, music, social situations, culture, etc.! The innoncence I see in home-schooled children means they aren't jaded by seeing a lot of TV violence, they don't want to dress like Britney Spears at age 6, they think "stupid" is a cuss word. They know who their elected officials are but don't know who Destiny's Child is or Blink 182 is (I actually like Blink but they're not for kids). They fear less and trust more. They learn about sex a little bit later. Is that such a bad thing? I think this is true for all the home-school kids I know. Get what I mean now?

penny

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#818096 - 03/12/02 09:38 PM Re: Rich Dad, Poor Dad
nancyww Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 585
Loc: central oregon
 Quote:
Originally posted by Nici:
Just to make sure I understand this thread correctly:
Does homeschooling really mean that you as parents can decide to teach the kids yourself instead of sending them to a public or private school? Are there no restrictions like that you have to be a teacher for example?
[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: Nici ][/b]



Hi Nici. Here in the U.S., each state sets its own restrictions on homeschooling. Some may require a bachelor's degree. Other states have a minimum number of hours and days a child must spend in "school", require oversight of curriculum & courses by a district administrator,or decide that a parent must have completed 4 more years of education than the level he/she is teaching.

In Oregon we file a "Notice of Intent to Homeschool" with the local school district, and submit test scores in the spring. If the test scores fall below a certain percentile, the school district sends someone to evaluate the student and determine if another method of schooling would be appropriate.

By the way, what is the PISA study?

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#818097 - 03/13/02 05:13 AM Re: Rich Dad, Poor Dad
Anonymous
Unregistered


I think the concept of home-schooling as you all describe it is absolutely great!
Until the beginning of the 20th century home-schooling was also possible in Germany, but not exactly like it gets done in the US.
Home-schooling in Germany at that time was exclusively for the rich because you had to hire a teacher. In addition to that school attendance was not compulsory. The result of this system was that the rich got an education and the poor decided not to send their kids to school, but have them work in the factories or fields instead.
Just for perspective matters: my grandma was born in 1914, three years after school attendance for at least 4 years was made compulsory all over Germany. So she was first of all the siblings who attended school! In 1920!

Ian, you asked about what we do with kids who are "special cases". Here's the answer:

In Germany you go to a public or private school. Both can be either day schools or boarding schools. That's all.
In case of celebrities their children usually go to an expensive boarding school, not necessarily in Germany. The best (and most expensive) boarding schools are said to be in Switzerland and/or England.
Or in case your parents move from town to town with a circus you simply change schools every few weeks. Not funny.

If you're ill for a long period of time you have to redo the class. This happens fairly often in primary school when a kid broke his leg for example. A broken leg means no school for six or more weeks which is too long to catch up again, hence: redo the class.
Anxiety is no excuse to stay away from school over here. If you're old enough to go to school, you go to school. It's a pretty hard system.
And the system is even harder on those who are disabled be it mentally or physically. They get all dumped into one school usually with the exception of kids who cannot walk. But all others, be they blind, deaf, numb or born with the Down Syndrome doesn't matter. One school. That's not only hard it is also unfair. Luckily this is now changing slowly.

Here's a link to the official website of PISA http://www.pisa.oecd.org/
Basically it's an assessment of the worldwide educational level of 15-year olds. Germany was not scoring high...

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#818098 - 03/13/02 07:16 AM Re: Rich Dad, Poor Dad
Brendan Offline


Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5331
Loc: McAllen, TX
Penny,

I was responding to George, not you.
_________________________
http://www.BrendanKinsella.com

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#818099 - 03/13/02 09:25 AM Re: Rich Dad, Poor Dad
Anonymous
Unregistered


 Quote:
Originally posted by Penny:



I think what you are sensing is innocence. Home schoolers are more sheltered than private school kids, who are more sheltered than public school kids. Now, you may think this is an entirely bad thing to do. But I disagree! There is plenty of time to "grow up." Yes, our children will eventually deal with drugs, sexuality, pregnancy, evil, etc. (that is, unless we hide them in a closet all their life), but why do they have to deal with these things in elementary school!

[/b]


I agree with you about maintaining the innocence of the children as long as possible. My kids go to a private school where there are no dances until Junior High, the kids wear uniforms to keep them from focusing on fashion, kids can be expelled for inappropriate behavior, and values can be instilled, not just paid lip service to.

The home schooled kids I have seen, though, are more than just innocent. They seem to be bewildered by what they see in the world. They do not seem to be able to interact well with their peers and, when talking with adults, constantly are looking over to their parents to make sure they are saying the right thing -- indeed, using the exact same words their parents use to discuss things, words children do not normally use.

Granted, those kids I know are home schooled by parents who are religious fanatics and who fear the world in which they live. They fail to see that Jesus lived in the world and dealt with it without accepting it all. He did not retreat from it.

They are over protective in thought and deed. For some reason, they think if they can hide their children away, the children will be better off for it. I have watched as their kids have ventured out to play with children in the neighborhood. One by one, these kids have been told they cannot go to this kid's house or play with that kid because these home schooled children are suddenly exposed to video games, movies or other things the parents fear rather than deal with.

I have no doubts there are many well adjusted home schooled kids, but so many of them are taught at home not to give them a better education, but out of parent's fear and inability to handle what this society is offering. These are the children who will have great difficulty in handling life because they will have been given no life-skills, other than to condemn and then run away.

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#818100 - 03/13/02 11:49 AM Re: Rich Dad, Poor Dad
T2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 341
George,

I've seen this stuff on occasion as well. Whacko parents with a radical social agenda and high control needs. Not surprisingly, the kids of these people tend to have difficulty handling freedom all at once when they leave for college. You see those kids acting out a lot.

However, I would be careful to avoid attributing this behavior to the entire class of home schooled kids. That would be neither fair nor true.

T2

[ March 13, 2002: Message edited by: T2 ]

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#818101 - 03/25/02 03:15 AM Re: Rich Dad, Poor Dad
Shadorunnr Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 125
Loc: Oklahoma City
Speaking of public schools, one more problem I see, as well as other government entities, is that they buy from the lowest bidder. As an old army saying goes; Remember your gun was built by the lowest bidder. If I am fighting a war I want the best gun possible. The same goes for education. My daughter's new high school has already had a new floor reinstalled. Her middle school had a serious black mold problem. Why can't anyone understand that the low bidder is lowest because they have cut costs SOMEWHERE! Spend a little more and get it right the first time. The same goes for teachers. Good pay means good teachers. I have a job that requires third grade math skills and little English skills (okay so I am a "little" overqualified). Yet I make as much as many teachers. Why would a person teach when they could make as much money doing menial labor? The love of teaching only goes so far when your illerate neighbor is driving a new car, and you need to get two more years out of your old clunker. If American really values education, then we should put our money where our mouth is. Oklahoma has the lowest paid teachers in the nation, yet somehow, we managed to find the money to put a multimillion dollar dome on our state capital building. A building that has been domeless since the building was built many decades ago. Edjukasion in okla-lahoma? We done gots da bestist.
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