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#818949 - 04/28/02 01:50 PM A Presidential Inventory
Anonymous
Unregistered


Now that this country is coming down from the intensity of the September 11th disaster, it is time to take stock of how Bush2 is doing overall, as opposed to whether he is reading well prepared speeches meant to rally the country. And so, I offer this inventory....

FOREIGN POLICY
1. The war in Afganistan is a sham. When it began it was to root out Bin Laden and his cohorts and eliminate world wide networks of terrorism. We no longer hear about this. The troops in Afganistan, rather than fighting a war, have become the local police department for the American installed government. Think Vietnam. The purpose has changed to placating local warlords not finding and eliminating the perpetrators of the attack on the US.

2. Israel is told in no uncertain terms to remove its troops from the occupied territories. Sharon thumbs his nose at Bush2, knowing Bush2 will not exert any real power.

3. The Arab countries have vetoed any attack on Iraq, or any futher action in the Middle East to move the War on Terrorism beyond Afganistan. They too know Bush2 has no real power and they can thumb their nose at him as well. The Saudi Crown Prince did not even feel it necessary to show appropriate respect for his host to stay for the BBQ planned in his honor.

4. The PLO no longer sees the US as an honest broker. With Israel being allowed to thumb its nose at the US, they follow suit.

5. After 9/11, something out of Bush's control, there was growing support for the US in the Arab world. Bush2's policies in dealing with the Israel/Palestinian conflicts has squandered this. The attitude toward the US is now worse than it was before 9/11, increaing the likelihood of more terrorist attacks

5. The Europeans will not support Bush2 and his foreign policy goals. Even Tony Blair, Prime Minster of the 51st State of Great Britain, is separating himself from Bush2.

6. The tracking down of terrorist money has broken down completely. Other countries simply refuse to go along. Bush2 is not respected enough to bring them into compliance.

7. The coalition against terrorism is in shambles, assuming it was ever really there, given the fact no one in the Administration could ever tell us who was in the coalition.

8. The US is again supporting the overthrow of governments in South America -- but Bush2 does not do it right, gets all excited for 12 hours only to see its enemy back in power when he wakes up the next morning.

9. The Europeans no longer see the US as the leader in environmental policy, but rather as a poor custodian of the planet even as it does the most to damage it.

9. The US free market policy is no longer respected. Bush2 has shown himself as having no real belief in free markets, but rather is committed only to personal political gains by pushing for and approving steel tariffs. Bush2 will also sign the new Agricultural bill, again for selfish political reasons, no matter what he claims his free market beliefs are.

10. Bush2 cannot get his Administration to speak with a coherent voice on any foreign policy issue, as it splits between the Rumsfeld hardliners and the Powell realists. The Secretary of State goes to the Middle East on a very sensitive mission only to find White House leaks dogging him while there saying he is not doing the right thing.

11. Bush2 made the US the laughing stock of the world with his designation of the "Axis of Evil."

DOMESTIC POLICY
1. The tax cut did get approved, giving most of its relief to the very wealthy and virtually ignoring the middle class and the poor. The result of the tax cut is a return to Republican deficits and renewing the continuing Republican run on Social Security as the country gets closer to the retirement of the baby boomers.

2. Bush2's policies lost the Senate to the Democrats because they are too far right.

3. Bush2 has lost the battle to bring about his much desired privatization of social security which is now on the back burner. In fact the White House now refuses to even use the word privatization -- calling it reform instead. The Democrats are just waiting for this issue to be raised so they can start using their new catch phrase "The Enronization of Social Security."

4. An education bill was approved. Of course, except for a national mandate forcing the states to administer yearly tests, it was the one written by Ted Kennedy, not Bush2. The states are fighting these tests and localized groups of parents are beginning to encourage people to keep their kids home during the testing periods rather than participate in it.

5. The credibility of Bush2's administration on energy policy has been destroyed by the desire to keep secret whatever they are hiding about the development of the energy plan -- even while giving the US Government more authority to know more about individual Americans.

6. The hallmark of Bush2's energy policy, the destruction of ANWR, has been stopped and the energy bill the President will sign is one written by the Democrats in the Senate, not the de facto President Dick Cheney.

7. The stalwart right wing GOP'ers in the House are criticizing Bush2 an many fronts, showing he does not even have support among the leaders of his own party.

8. Ms. Hughes, one of Bush2's most ardent supporters gets to a point she can no longer takes it and bails on her old friend as the going gets rough so she can party more with her friends in Texas.

9. Bush2's popularity held strong for about 5 months and, in a short 6 week period, has plummeted almost 20 points, with all signs, including the beliefs of his own political advisors, that it will plummet even further.

10. The Courts are showing how uncosnitutional this Administration's actions are and are now unraveling the excessive assault in the civil rights of those being illegally held in detention after 9/11.

Enough of failures. I do see two things Bush2 can point to as "successes":

1. Covering up the naked breasts of a statue at the Justice Department.

2. Removal of basic civil rights of Americans citizens themselves.

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#818950 - 04/28/02 02:04 PM Re: A Presidential Inventory
fmelliott Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 894
Loc: Virginia
George, it is fascinating to see yesterdays' radicals become today's conservatives. We thank you for stating so succinctly the heart felt views of the Democratic party. Please understand that that is all they are.
By the way I do agree with you on some civil liberties matters. Maybe I am a closet Democrat?
Nah!

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#818951 - 04/28/02 04:33 PM Re: A Presidential Inventory
netizen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/01
Posts: 1926
Loc: New York
I guess those republicans can't all be bad. :rolleyes:

Condoleeza Rice turned in a respectable performance at the piano earlier this week --playing the Adagio from Brahms' Sonata No. 3 in D Minor with Yo-Yo Ma.

You can hear the performance online via the NPR "Performance Today" website (until they pull the plug on the show).

http://www.npr.org/programs/pt/

Listen Here
_________________________
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that
we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."-- Theodore Roosevelt

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#818952 - 04/28/02 06:18 PM Re: A Presidential Inventory
Eldon Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 597
Loc: Illinois
Netizen,
Thanks for posting the Brahms. That was certainly a bright spot on this rainy afternoon. \:D
_________________________
Sincerely,
Eldon

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#818953 - 04/28/02 09:10 PM Re: A Presidential Inventory
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
George, do you stand on your head and drool while you think? ;\)
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#818954 - 04/28/02 09:34 PM Re: A Presidential Inventory
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
 Quote:
We thank you for stating so succinctly the heart felt views of the Democratic party.[/b]
There is a bunch here that even they would not have the temerity to state. Of course, there is a lot that comes right out of their campaign literature. By the way, if you want honest and thoughtful debate on this forum don't shovel manure like "tax breaks for the rich". That is totally dishonest campaign rhetoric. That goes for most of the rest of the tendentious BS you have posted here as well. You will not get a serious reply from me on any of this when you spout this kind of garbage. Other than that, George, we all still love ya. ;\) \:D
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#818955 - 04/28/02 10:20 PM Re: A Presidential Inventory
JohnC Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 1672
Loc: Lower Left Coast
You know George, there have been a lot of issue specific topics discussed here with some very good exchanges that hopefully make people think.

To start a political *issing contest between parties (or dare I say liberals and conservatives) with no specific issue seems counter productive. I believe the cyberspace term for what you are doing now is trolling.

I'll pass.
_________________________
There are few joys in life greater than the absence of pain.

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#818956 - 04/28/02 11:50 PM Re: A Presidential Inventory
Steve Miller Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 3290
Loc: Yorba Linda, CA
Actually, I kind of like the post, maybe for the wrong reasons.

What I see in the current Bush administration is an incremental shift to the right. Not as far to the right as Bush might like, but a move away from some of the equally apalling moves made in the other direction by the government under Clinton.

Too much too fast is not going to resonate with the American public, especially a public who elected the current administration by a slim margin. An incremental shift right is probably due, but some of the proposals put forth by the current administration are mighty extreme and don't have a prayer. The current focus on the extreme proposals almost guarantees that very little will actually be changed during this administration. I view this as good - the last thing I want is efficiency in government. Let major changes be made if they are needed, but only after exhaustive debate and consensus.

I suspect you will see a softening of the rhetoric over the next year or two, at least if the Republicans want any chance of keeping the White House for another 4. If the election were to be held today, Florida might be the ONLY state that the Republicans can carry.

Unless of course, Al Gore is once again the best the Democrats can muster to oppose him....

\:\)
_________________________
Defender of the Landfill Piano

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#818957 - 04/29/02 08:52 AM Re: A Presidential Inventory
Anonymous
Unregistered


Why do I think that if my name were Rush Limbaugh and I said these same types of things against the Democrats (or liberals as JohnC conveniently labels them) on the radio to millions, many of you would think I was speaking with the utmost of reason?

And when did a good political fight become undesired discourse?

Or did this all just simply hit too close to the truth for many of you to admit publicly -- An appointed President who has shown no real political ideology other than personal opportunism for himself and his friends on the one hand and incompetency on the other?

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#818958 - 04/29/02 09:25 AM Re: A Presidential Inventory
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
Sorry George, won't take the bait. Have a nice day.
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#818959 - 04/29/02 10:02 AM Re: A Presidential Inventory
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14051
Loc: Louisiana
ZZZzzzzzzzz. Sploooosh. plooop. ploooop. ploooop.
ploooop. zzzzzzzZZ.

"The sound of a topwater bait that the fish refused to strike" - Carnac the Great

Have a nice day, George \:\)
_________________________
www.coffee-room.com

Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#818960 - 04/29/02 10:52 AM Re: A Presidential Inventory
Sam_dup1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/02
Posts: 239
Loc: NYC
 Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Miller:

especially a public who elected the current administration by a slim margin.
[/QB]
Steve, with all due respect, the president wasn't elected, he was appointed by the Supreme Court.

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#818961 - 04/29/02 11:33 AM Re: A Presidential Inventory
Anonymous
Unregistered


 Quote:
Originally posted by Sam:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Miller:

especially a public who elected the current administration by a slim margin.
[/b]
Steve, with all due respect, the president wasn't elected, he was appointed by the Supreme Court.[/QB]
And the public voted Al Gore.

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#818962 - 04/29/02 11:54 AM Re: A Presidential Inventory
Derick Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 3290
Loc: New York
Guys, Bush won the Whitehouse. I wasn't particularly happy about it at the time (although I am now after 9/11) but I still acknowledged he won.

Gore won the popular vote but that doesn't count. Whether it should or not is another debate.

How many times do we have to count swinging chads, hanging chads and indentations until we are satisfied? If you blame anyone for what happened, blame the Democrats in Florida who designed such a stupid ballot.

Derick
_________________________
Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.

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#818963 - 04/29/02 01:17 PM Re: A Presidential Inventory
DT Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 1478
Loc: Illinois
I always thought that Carville, McAulliff, Begala, and Neas threw out absolutely ridiculous charges just to see if anyone would buy their big lies and then harped on the ones that seemed to stick. I could never believe that someone would collect every trial ballon they floated and think that they all held air.

I can't remember exactly but it seems like our former president won a landslide with about 40% of the popular vote. We never seem to hear that 60% of the people who voted wanted someone else.
_________________________
Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell...

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#818964 - 04/29/02 01:31 PM Re: A Presidential Inventory
Derick Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 3290
Loc: New York
I know Clinton won the popular vote by a good margin (more than 5%). But only 40 something percent of the public bothered to vote.

My favorite person, Shawn Hannity, (yeah right), loves to say that 60% of the public didn't vote for Clinton. He's right. What he conveniently doesn't say is that they didn't vote period.

Derick
_________________________
Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.

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#818965 - 04/29/02 03:13 PM Re: A Presidential Inventory
DT Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 1478
Loc: Illinois
I think that Hannity was talking about those who voted. You have to remember that Perot took about 20% of the vote in 92 which allowed Mr. Clinton to edge out Mr. Bush in the popular vote but win decidedly in electoral count.
_________________________
Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell...

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#818966 - 04/29/02 03:24 PM Re: A Presidential Inventory
JohnC Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 1672
Loc: Lower Left Coast
Derick,

I don't know what Shawn might have said, but DT is correct. Clinton was first elected with 43.3% of the popular vote.

See detailed statistics here.
_________________________
There are few joys in life greater than the absence of pain.

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#818967 - 04/29/02 10:44 PM Re: A Presidential Inventory
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
Sorry George. Bush won. Gore wanted to toss out the military vote and only recount the heavily Democrat counties. All the Supreme Court did was to undo a bad decision by a biased and unethical State Court. The ballots have been counted and recounted. And every way you count them, Bush won the state of Florida. And the popular vote is not what counts, and never did. If you don't get it by now George, you are simply refusing to look at the facts.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#818968 - 04/29/02 11:43 PM Re: A Presidential Inventory
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14138
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Haven't seen most of you guys up in the Forum, so that's where you've been hiding yourselves:
well,well.... the Coffee room!

o.k., now lets have an Americano and see how we can help! Where does it hurt? Is it the left leg or the right? Any part of the brain or other essential bodily components or organs?

Don't forget, Saddam [the Satan!] is watching you, just loving it when America gets bogged down with internal bickering. Or argumentation of sorts.

In fact he's been sharpening his tools with a fat grin in his face. Rockets from China,nice hardware goodies from Czech republic,poison and bacteria ,all home grown and proudly genuine Iraqian hand made quality.

Somebody's gotta stay busy. And build a thriving 'home economy' [of doom!] while others are simply busy talking. For,and against each other.

And if America will send 250,000 elite soldiers next year to give him hell....he'll make sure a respectably good number of them won't come back.
Alive,that is!

Unless someone high up here lets his fingers do the talking for a change.

And starts pressing the right buttom.
At least: this time! Because...if placed right, it will replace a lot of words.

But it can't move by talking only. Oh...I forgot Saddam may get there first.

He's never been known as a man of many words to begin with.At least he seems to know a fool when he sees one.

Oh, can I have a little more cream in my coffee,please?

Thanks,guys.

Hope that'll will keep you busy.

your [friendly] early warning defense system!
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#818969 - 04/30/02 12:13 AM Re: A Presidential Inventory
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
You're all wet Norbert. \:\)

What you call bickering is not a sign of our weakness but strength. Saddam might once again make the mistake of misunderstanding that but it will be to his own peril. He's toast. And your predictions of many not coming home alive are less likely to come to pass now than they were when they were made 11-1/2 years ago. You can have your predictions and I can have mine but in the end the truth will be closer to mine. You will see. ;\)

Please come back again for more [coffee].
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#818970 - 04/30/02 12:26 AM Re: A Presidential Inventory
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14138
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
NOT A SIGN OF OUR WEAKNESS BUT STRENGHT....[/b]

I loved your use of the word "OUR"!!

Togetherness. W E! ALL ONE! STRENGTH!!!

Sometimes I love to be wrong.

Or wet, if necessary.

How'd they used to say?

Better wet than dead.

O.K., ok.......I'll be happy to be wet!!

I mean it.

your [hopefully]all wet friend, Norbert

P.S. How's the coffee around here?Refill, anyone?
.
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#818971 - 04/30/02 12:31 AM Re: A Presidential Inventory
T2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 341
You are passionate, George, but you do not persuade.

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#818972 - 04/30/02 12:56 AM Re: A Presidential Inventory
Steve Miller Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 3290
Loc: Yorba Linda, CA
 Quote:
Originally posted by JBryan:

What you call bickering is not a sign of our weakness but strength. Saddam might once again make the mistake of misunderstanding that but it will be to his own peril. He's toast. [/b]
On this, JBryan and I agree.... [not common!]

Americans [and may I include our good neighbors to the North?] have been described as a big quarrelsome family. We bicker, we tussle, we argue, we sling mud, call names.

It's a grand [old] tradition, and we do it.....

Right out in public!

In the newspapers fer cryin' out loud, in magazines and on [piano] Internet forums!

It's a glorious [if somewhat messy] thing!

If Mr. Hussein thinks this is a sign of weakness, he does so at his peril. The only reason he thinks all of his people are behind him is....

... he shoots the ones who argue!

[while we brew another pot of java so the discussion can continue]

\:\)
_________________________
Defender of the Landfill Piano

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#818973 - 04/30/02 06:54 AM Re: A Presidential Inventory
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
Steve, well said.

Norbert, we would include you in our family as well.

Cheers

_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

Top
#818974 - 04/30/02 12:18 PM Re: A Presidential Inventory
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14138
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Thanks for the honour.

I still can shoot a mean machine gun...from early army days!!

Anybody stationed in Germany remember Grafenwoehr Panzerdivision 'Totenkopf'...near Nuernberg?

...and the following nights happenings at "Am Frauentorgraben"??
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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