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Topic Options
#84371 - 07/10/08 04:28 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
I think a 2~4yrs old Yamaha LU90 @ around ~$1700-1800 would be a great recommendation \:\)

If need to upgrade after grade 6, then still can sell off, at least yamaha got resale value.
_________________________
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587

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#84372 - 07/10/08 09:36 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
AnX Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 4
Loc: Singapore
Hi Keeferae!

Thank you for taking time to share your experience and thoughts. Yes, your experience is similar to what I am going through.

Yes, we are taking our time to look at the different pianos. We know that it is a decision not to be rushed into.

Did you get your son to play on pianos that you were keen to buy? So far, we only asked the person at the showrm to play for us.

It's helpful of you to provide me with info and a few more places to go to shop for a piano.

snoopycar

I am actually interested in getting a piano that is 121cm. I am more for the idea of getting one that will last them till higher grades (a once- and- for- all effort), if they make it to that, than to buy something lower only to have to upgrade years later. Should the gals lose interest in playing, I will then sell it off. But if they do learn to play, but want to stop by a certain level, it is still good to keep it for their leisure and enjoyment.

Thanks for your help too!

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#84373 - 07/11/08 03:35 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
keeferae Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 54
Loc: Singapore
Hi AnX,

Yes, we did ask our son to try the different pianos. Personally, I think it is important as they will be the one playing on it. In the course of our piano hunting, we had also been advised to get one with a medium touch (not to stiff or soft) as this would help the children develop their strength.

Unfortunately, as we cannot play the piano, we could not assess the touch and responsiveness. So, we asked the sales person to demonstrate on the different brands and models and evaluated the sound. Finally, we ended up with the Wendl & Lung 122 Universal as we found the sound really nice and clear. My son also picked the same piano after asking him to play the different pianos a number of times.

There are many pianos here that are 121cm tall (so-called Exam model) and were told that they should be sufficient up to Grade 6. We were told that for higher grades, a bigger piano is required like a 125cm due to better dynamics.

For us, we settled for a "basic" Exam model as we do not want to spend too much. Also, a piano must be properly maintained for it to perform optimally down the road. Should my children progress sufficiently, then we will consider upgrading it in the future. It really boils down to individual preference, aim, financial consideration and other factors.

If you have some lingering doubts, a well-established brand like Yamaha and Kawai should not go much wrong. Although they cost quite a bit higher, you have piece of mind. If not, you could try the other Asian (ex-Japan) brands. They may not have as strong a reputation yet, but many do provide very good value. You may want to read the following thread to get some insight.

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/22693.html#000000

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/21145.html#000000

We had the piano closed to 6 months now and, so far so good. My two children, including the younger one, are progressing nicely. My humble advice is: Have an open mind. Cheap does not necessary mean inferior.

Do ask/search this forum for whatever info you need. I have learnt much about pianos since.

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#84374 - 07/11/08 12:37 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
pianoplayerguy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/14/07
Posts: 3
Loc: Spfld, IL
HELLO!

each manufacture uses a different process to achieve what appears to be a similar end appearance. if you were looking at two brown paper bags and each bag was selling for $5......but i told you one bag had $100 in it and the other had $20 in it which bag would you want purchase. most likely you would choose the bag with more value on the inside.

the same approach should be applied to purchasing a piano. most piano purchases are a once in a lifetime purchase for the individual. knowing that you will have this piano for many years you should really ask the dealer/salesperson about the manufacture process.....where the materials come from and what environment the piano was intended for.

the basic design of the piano has been around for over 300 years, the materials and engineering in the interior seperate a piano from a good piano. when artists perform on stages around the world...what names do you see on most pianos.........from my experience it has been Steinway and Yamaha. there must be a reason for that .

humidity concerns create the most problems for manufactures. visit your local dealer to find the true information regarding these questions. the manufactures send factory representatives to dealers and have sales people tour their factories to know the products they are representing.

take for example - yamaha seasons the wood it uses in their piano manufacture process outdoors as long, if not longer than other manufactures, but they also use the ovens/kelms to keep the wood used at a certain humidity level for the intended market/environment of delivery. this is a technique that other manufactures have also adopted.

point being - websites as this are great for starting your research, but the dealer networks are there for you to ask questions and find the piano that you will be satisfied with for years and years.

take your time visit your local dealers. chances are you will only buy one piano in your lifetime. make sure it is one you will be proud of in the years to come.

good shopping!
_________________________
People will listen a long time;.....if you play what they like.

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#84375 - 07/11/08 10:46 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
AnX Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 4
Loc: Singapore
pianoplayerguy

Hi.

Thanks for the insightful sharing. I know what you mean.

And I can't agree with you more on your

"take your time visit your local dealers. chances are you will only buy one piano in your lifetime. make sure it is one you will be proud of in the years to come."

\:\)

keeferae

Hi.

Yes, I also found out that the touch should be 'medium' so that they are trained in their finger strength.

Though we have been using keyboard at home for the past two years, I am glad to see my elder girl having the 'finger strength' to play on the piano in class. Therefore, I think we should get her a piano soon as she wants to continue learning. My younger child just started the course and she is also very excited (in fact, she is showing more excitement and interest than the elder child when she first started).

I really appreciate your detailed and honest sharing of the process you and your family went through and your tips on what to do during piano shopping.

We might, in the end, stretch the budget a bit to get a kawai k3 cos we really like the sound and we trust that it will be a good buy, thus we will have peace of mind (like you said) too.

Nevertheless, I am glad you found W & L 122 a great purchase and your kids are enjoying it!
\:\)

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#84376 - 07/14/08 09:54 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
tanjinjack Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 846
Loc: Malaysia
Hi, everyone.
Do you all know of any piano technician that accept case to review a used piano in Malaysia?
Preferably Klang Valley and not from Wagner Piano.
I am looking for one to actually inspect the used piano that the Wagner Piano selling.
Also, usually how much is the technician get paid for this kind of case. Anyone with experiences, hope you can share with me..
Thanks

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#84377 - 07/21/08 03:15 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
dddolphin Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 1
Hi everyone here,

New to the piano world forum. Read a lot of replies here and benefit a lot. Now am in the way of looking for a piano. I am targeting a used one as is constrained by the budget arnd 5k. Some of the above replies mentioned that it would be good if can find a technician to accompany if decided to buy a piano.

But no much info here about where to engage a technician. Any one can give some ideas or you may just pm me if you want to provide the service?

The other thing is that just I just visited the music lodge (bukit timah shopping center). Any comments or experience about this shop? Currently they have some used YAMAHA U10A/UX10A and KAWAI NS/US series on sale.

I am also planning to visit:
1. Emmanuel & Son
2. Asia piano
but anyone has ideas whether they have used Yamaha U1 or equivalent Kawai on sale recently?

Hope this post is not disturbing \:\)
Much thanks for those providing the useful info above and viewing my first post and those that can give some advice \:\)

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#84378 - 07/21/08 05:26 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
 Quote:
Originally posted by tanjinjack:
Hi, everyone.
Do you all know of any piano technician that accept case to review a used piano in Malaysia?
Preferably Klang Valley and not from Wagner Piano.
I am looking for one to actually inspect the used piano that the Wagner Piano selling.
Also, usually how much is the technician get paid for this kind of case. Anyone with experiences, hope you can share with me..
Thanks [/b]
Interesting proposal \:\)
Would you pay me enough for toll fee/petrol/makan? I can drive up to KL to your place. Then you bring me to the various shops and I'll help you pick a good piano !! Maybe show you what to look out for, next time you can go inspect yourself even !!
_________________________
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587

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#84379 - 07/21/08 08:06 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
tanjinjack Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 846
Loc: Malaysia
 Quote:
Originally posted by snoopycar:
 Quote:
Originally posted by tanjinjack:
Hi, everyone.
Do you all know of any piano technician that accept case to review a used piano in Malaysia?
Preferably Klang Valley and not from Wagner Piano.
I am looking for one to actually inspect the used piano that the Wagner Piano selling.
Also, usually how much is the technician get paid for this kind of case. Anyone with experiences, hope you can share with me..
Thanks [/b]
Interesting proposal \:\)
Would you pay me enough for toll fee/petrol/makan? I can drive up to KL to your place. Then you bring me to the various shops and I'll help you pick a good piano !! Maybe show you what to look out for, next time you can go inspect yourself even !! [/b]
Haha, petrol is really expensive man.. not only in Singapore, and now in Malaysia..
damn it, when talk about petrol I am so ****ed at it.. you know, it's now RM2.70 per litre.
And toll is not cheap you know...
Not only those, I still have to pay you for inspecting them. Certainly not a good deal. If the piano's in JB, then I might as well can consider.

Anyway, thanks for it. I am now looking for some brand new China-made grand.
Anyone has any idea on Helicon?

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#84380 - 07/21/08 08:39 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
aiyo, don't worry, my car is no Merc350SLE.
its a green car picanto, 16km/l + some photosynthesis.
At the same time can go jalan jalan at bukit bintang jln ah loh makan.

Anyway, if you request shop to open up the front or pull out the action of the grand, touch touch, you can self-learn lot. Look out for wear and tear, leather, sloppy parts, loose parts...

I'm sure you can pick out a good tone and touch piano as you sound quite proficient in playing too. Take your time, don't rush. Or tarhan for a few more year, save up to buy a RX2 !! Buy one time, for life time. (no such thing ... hehehe)

cheers
_________________________
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587

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#84381 - 07/22/08 12:25 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
tanjinjack Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 846
Loc: Malaysia
lol, proficient in playing? Not really..
I had my grade 8 passed last year and my hands are all rusty now.
Well, I am only 18 and there's still long way only I could earn my own (big) money... at least until I finish my degree..
Therefore, I as well feel that buying a China-made piano that could last about 10 years before I actually have the ability to buy a good one for my own.
Wow, your car actually spend 17sen per km only..
My dad's Ford is like spending twice as much as yours.
Anyway, I'll find you if I really need your service.

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#84382 - 07/22/08 02:46 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
1.1l engine and light body makes it efficient mah.... but ride comfort cannot compare with ford.

SO, if we use car as an analogy with piano.... yakyakyak... i keep quiet for a while.

Ah ha... grade8 huh (i always like to tease ppl) you must be able to play Chopin revolutionary, fantasia impromtu, waltz op64 no1 - the doggy song and the romantic noctune op92-2 ... hehehe

I can only play Bach invention no.1 and some other goofy tunes

ok ok all the best in choosing a new piano. remember a piano is like a singer girfriend. choose one that you won't get bored or sick of listening day after days... get one that sound sweet and have substance, like fish leong type.

\:D
_________________________
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587

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#84383 - 07/22/08 02:51 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
Bihua Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 175
Loc: Singapore
Dear all,

Need some advice from you.

I have an old piano (Schubert) which is about 38 years old now. I bought this piano from my piano teacher 8 years ago at S$500, when I started learning piano during a 6 mths holiday at 19. I stopped the lessons after 6 mths when school starts (no money coz no holiday, so cannot work).

When I bought the piano in Yr 2000, the mover/technician suggested me to overhaul the piano coz it was in a poor state and said that it was not even worth $500, tune also no use and got mice and worms. But as I was cash tight, the piano sounded ok (to me), touch ok (to me), I decided not to go for the overhaul, which was abt $1k to 2k.

I have been playing the piano since then. The piano is upright slightly less than 100cm in height with 85 keys. I only tuned it once 8 years ago after buying the piano. I have always keep the heater on. The 1.5 octave low keys are totally out of tune. The hammers are all very old and the touch & feel is not right. There are 3 pedals, the centre one is totally spoilt. The sustain pedal is bad, but still can use. Though it has cracking sounds when stepped on. The damper pedal is ok. All keys still have sound and will bounce back after pressed.

Now, financially more stable since have been working for a few years and I want to continue to learn, play pieces and even considering taking exams myself and hope my kids will learn and enjoy it too. Now no kids yet. So, I am thinking if I should:-

1. Overhaul my poor Schubert piano now and maintain it well. When I have kids, see whether they have potential & interest, if so, then upgrade later? But how long can the overhauled Schubert piano last? Until Grade 3? Or it can last till Grade 5? About how much is overhaul now (Singapore context)? Any recommendations?

2. Sell my poor Schubert piano now (haha, not sure who will want it..) & buy a new one / 2nd hand one & maintain it well? If buy, what should I buy? What height? How much should I budget for it? Actually if I choose to buy, I hope to get one that is good enough up to Grade 5. Then if my kids or I really power, then I will buy a real good one to do Grade 6 & above later. Make sense?

Which one should I choose? I choose "Grade 5" as the cut off coz I usually hear that people stops there and for those who continue will usually get better pianos. Am I right? Thank you!

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#84384 - 07/22/08 03:17 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
Bihua:

Welcome to the forum! \:\)

If I were you I would discard the Schubert (I doubt you can sell it!) and spend the reconditioning money as part payment for a decent new upright. Take a look at Hailun for a decent Chinese piano. Or a Wendl & Lung (made by Hailun).

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#84385 - 07/22/08 03:59 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
can try to sell back to your teacher ??
_________________________
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587

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#84386 - 07/22/08 05:22 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
Bihua Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 175
Loc: Singapore
Thanks. Looks like the option should be to sell/discard the Schubert and get a new one.

By the way, what is the proper way to discard a piano? I stay in a HDB. Or anywhere I can donate it to?

Digitus, thanks, I will go Hailun and Wendl & Lung to take a look. The address is: Blk 1016 Geylang East Ave 3 #01-143 Singapore 389731 (Opp Paya Lebar MRT & S’ Post Centre) right?

Usually which time of the year is the best time to buy? Like got GSS one?

Snoopycar, cannot sell back to my teacher lah. It was like 8 years ago leh. So long never keep in touch liow. Imagine I suddenly go knock at her door and ask "Teacher, still remember me? You interested to buy the piano you sold me 8 years ago?" Haha, I cannot imagine doing it lah. Moreover, she sell to me cos she don't want it mah.

Although it is not a good piano, but I learnt a lot from it and still playing it now. So for that reason, it serve its purpose. Depreciation of $500 over 8 years. Already very worth it liow lah.

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#84387 - 07/22/08 09:03 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
garun guni ...... por poo por poo
_________________________
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587

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#84388 - 07/24/08 04:44 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
Mr Kwan (Emmanuel & Sons) came by my sister's home today to assess the old Schimmel console piano that my grandfather bought for my sister some 43 years ago. It will go to Mr Kwan's piano hospital next week for some work.

Mr Kwan's assessment agreed with mine. The piano is still in remarkably good condition considering where it has been. First there was about 10 years in Singapore, then about 7 years in Hobart, Tasmania (where it was very dry in summer and damp in winter), then back to Singapore where it has been for the past 24 years years. And a couple of years in storage somewhere.

The only care that was taken with the piano was to have the heater bar switched on all the time. Nobody obsessed about temp/RH levels, etc. We didn't know any better then. Oh and we did have the entire left side of the piano and the bottom of the case replaced because of a white ants infection about 35 years ago.

It's clear that the soundboard has lost some crown, because the sustain is not what it used to be. The hammers are also rock hard and need to be voiced down, the veneer is cracked and lifting a little in parts, and practice pedal mechanism is not working well, the felt bushings need to be replaced, and of course the action needs regulation. So Mr Kwan will address all these things for about $500, and then we'll do another assessment. We won't re-crown the soundboard even if it is possible to do so. That's major work and expense which we would like to avoid if possible.

The piano will remain in my sister's home for her daughters to tinkle on.

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#84389 - 07/24/08 05:15 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
hi Digutus, we are very keen to see pics of your lovely Omega !!
_________________________
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587

Top
#84390 - 07/24/08 05:52 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
Not yet here. Ship arrives in port first week of august. No fix on the exact date yet. Customs clearance takes at least 3 days. So I'm guessing that I'll have the piano in the house sometime in the first 2 weeks of August. \:\)

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#84391 - 07/24/08 08:18 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
tanjinjack Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 846
Loc: Malaysia
Hmm, just out of curiosity, what's the price cheapest Schimmel and Sauter in Singapore?
Who knows the nexy day I got 4D or Toto and become rich and is able to afford one!!

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#84392 - 07/24/08 10:53 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
Davinci Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 131
I've been placing heavy bets already. The entry prices would be somewhere twenties.

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#84393 - 07/24/08 11:28 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
tanjinjack Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 846
Loc: Malaysia
Wow, 20k~ and is singapore dollar!!..
well, when I win then i place the money back again, and win again I can run a piano firm already perhaps...
lol..
and yes, buy a Bosie Imperial~~

Hmm, it's good to dream right?

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#84394 - 07/24/08 07:08 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
brahms Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/22/08
Posts: 105
Loc: California
I own a Kawaii grand 6'6" for many years, it is a fine instrument, I just is about to trade it in for one of the finest performance piano. and It breaks my heart to part with those ivory keys and reliable actions. If you don;t play at all, it is crucial to take a professional pianist with you if you know one, someone who is conservatoy-trained. if not, then hire a technician to check it out especially the pianosthat are not artists'/concert quality-and sadly, Yamaha and Kawaii, although very good falls into the latter category. Ech do make high performance series tha tcompete with The Steinway in the USA. A good instrument do inspire you to learn and you will learn what good sound/tonal control and good response means. you will come to appreciate good sound. It has all to do with the ears, ears, ears. good luck.

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#84395 - 07/24/08 09:36 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
"Piano purchase from slow gain is most cherished and dear" \:\)
_________________________
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587

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#84396 - 07/24/08 10:42 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
Jay Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 471
Loc: AUD
tan... I think toto malaysia pool is at rm 8.5m. Strike it and you can have all the three, sauter, schimmel and bosie. \:D

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#84397 - 07/24/08 11:43 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
tanjinjack Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 846
Loc: Malaysia
Well, my mum is like trying for years already. The best result she can get is da ma cai 4D first prize only. And she usually place small bet.
Toto? yeah, 3 numbers and get nothing... It's not that easy!!
Anyway, it's a legal way to earn BIG money, just that the probability is very low only.

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#84398 - 07/24/08 11:46 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
Davinci Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 131
brahms:

Sadly i do not have any friend who plays the piano thus should i buy from any good make, it has very much got to be my luck and instinct.

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#84399 - 07/25/08 04:25 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
satay16 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/23/08
Posts: 37
Loc: Singapore
btw, to answer the first question you asked,........... well....., i think you can phrase the question into "where's the only place in singapore i can buy a schimmel or sauter pianos".

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#84400 - 07/26/08 10:54 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
slapper Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/11/08
Posts: 40
Loc: Singapore
The day has finally arrived! I just took delivery of my Kawai RX-2 this morning! It came with a Steinway & Sons truck though. lol. Took 5 burly guys to hurl the piano up to my apartment. Within half an hour, the grand dame sits proudly in the living room.









_________________________
Kawai RX-2 with Millennium III Action

YouTube Recordings:

Bach Prelude & Fugue in C BWV846 WTC 1 (Kawai RX-2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP668WETE_g

Chopin Ballade No.1 in G Min (Yamaha U1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iiss9X0iyjs

Chopin Waltz No.14 In E Min, (Kawai RX-2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyBKHwvwUhY

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