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#1166178 - 03/21/09 12:18 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Bihua]
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
Originally Posted By: Bihua
My technician says use the black color dried star star thingy (some dried food)and hang it near the hammers. Can prevent insects...


That's actually quite a good idea. One of my aunts (she's now passed away) used to collect Chinese paintings. She left most of them rolled up in scrolls and stuck them into tall cylindrical ceramic jars. To keep insects like silverfish etc away the bottom of the jar was strewn with dried star anise and black peppercorns.

For the piano you can make a couple of small cotton bags, fill them up with dried star anise and black peppercorns and leave them at the bottom of the piano case. Or you can tie some up in a couple of old handkerchiefs. Even old socks (washed!) will do.

The dried star anise and black peppercorns can be bought at your neighbourhood wet market, or in supermarkets (NTUC Fairprice for sure). In supermarkets look for them in the dried foods section -- if you spot dried Shiitake mushrooms then the star anise and peppercorns are probably nearby.


Edited by Digitus (03/21/09 12:20 AM)

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#1166187 - 03/21/09 12:57 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Digitus]
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
Sheue:

Kawai pianos are usually quite well voiced in the factory. Assuming that your K8 is not a dud, then the piano tech should not have touched the hammers. What's worse is that the way he used the voicing needles is wrong. According to your description he used it to fluff up the hammer felt around the striking point. That is NOT the way voicing needles are meant to be used.

My guess is that his tuning technique is deficient. I too used to own a K8 (which I sold it to get a grand). I tune the K8 and grand myself (with the help of an electronic tuning device), and I can confirm what I've read and been told -- that many voicing problems can be fixed by careful tuning. I'm still not good at it yet -- my own tech is able to get far more even voicing across the keyboard than I can. I can't bear to play on a piano that has drifted out of tune, but I can't afford to pay my dealer/tech to tune my piano every month. So I do it myself.

In case you are thinking of learning to tune your own piano, think again. I do not recommend it unless you are willing to spend some money and a lot of time learning how to do it. And since you are learning on your own piano, you run the risk of snapping strings and damaging the pins and pin block if you don't concentrate and move carefully and with the correct technique.

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#1166229 - 03/21/09 04:39 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: tanjinjack]
Bihua Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 175
Loc: Singapore
Originally Posted By: tanjinjack
Originally Posted By: Bihua
My technician says use the black color dried star star thingy (some dried food)and hang it near the hammers. Can prevent insects...


You mean 八角? A kind of food? I guess it's herb.. Not sure..


Yes, is 八角...can buy from any market one...

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#1166230 - 03/21/09 04:43 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Bihua]
Bihua Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 175
Loc: Singapore
You put them into a small plastic bag, poke some holes on the plastic bag and hang near the hammers....

Haha, ya, I think this is herb...also food mah! Heehee...

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#1166253 - 03/21/09 07:31 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Digitus]
Sheue Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/22/08
Posts: 11
Loc: Singapore
Digitus,

Thanks for your note. The touch and voice are definitely much better before the servicing. I'm not sure what he did to the hammers was correct but what's more important now is to get the "feel" back. Would you recommend I approach RP and request Uncle Robert to help me even if it means I have to pay for his service? I'm afraid the warranty will be void if I get someone outside RP.

I never thought of tuning the piano myself..... but you've given something to think about! smile

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#1166264 - 03/21/09 08:31 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Sheue]
fogandflower Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 33
hi bihua and digitus, now i know what is the "star". Yeah, i always use it when i cooking. thanks again.

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#1166287 - 03/21/09 10:10 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: fogandflower]
chihuahua Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 391
Loc: An Oligarchy
Sheue,

Voicing INSTEAD of tuning/regulating (a good regulation could take up half a day!) is a "kwik-fix" solution. That senior technician ... I suspect is an elderly man who prefers to speak in Chinese (Mr Tay was it)?

In RP, if Mr Tay can't fix it, don't suppose others can wink

RC is very old, you sure he can hear well?

Void warranty huh? You don't say, how to tell? But to play safe safe hor, finish all the free tunings THEN get your own tech. Mr Kwan is good (Emmanuel and Sons).
_________________________
Nepotism: We promote family values here - almost as often as we promote family members.

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#1166290 - 03/21/09 10:14 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: chihuahua]
chihuahua Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 391
Loc: An Oligarchy
Sheue,

I forgot to say lah! If it's Mr Tay, I don't think he will poke poke your hammers at the strike point lah ... he like to rub the SIDES of hammers with his pincer thingy ... saw him did that before. Hammer will harden up again in no time ... say a few months. laugh

I actually have to TELL Mr Tay not to voice my piano wink

Make sure that if it sounds bad, I'll get my own tech to redo the job. That is why I'm always so satisfied with RP's service. LOL!
_________________________
Nepotism: We promote family values here - almost as often as we promote family members.

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#1171959 - 03/31/09 10:19 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano [Re: artemov]
Ryangel Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 2
Hello everyone!

finally read finish about first 1/2 of the posts. lol and registered. I am an adult beginner looking to get myself an upright. Been playing on my sisters piano at my mums place and nowadays got more urge to play so i decided to get my own.

Anyone can help with a piano? havent been to many shops yet. Just online mostly. Looking to get a used piano. budget < $5k. Only piano I've played on is a kawai.... no idea which model though... no one in the family remembers... is it stated on the piano somewhere? All they remember was that it cost around $7k when it was bought. (new)

Saw an advert online selling a yamaha U3 for $3800
http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/Used-Yamaha-piano-U3_W0QQitemZ290306799972QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_216?hash=item290306799972&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1240%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

The search begins....

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#1175295 - 04/06/09 03:58 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano [Re: Ryangel]
DayDreamer Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 9
Hello everyone ! End of last year I was looking for a piano, and found the Hailun (much thanks to Bihua). I am now super happy to say that I got it ! The Hailun 125 (which is what Bihua got as well), I bought it on Friday and it arrived the next morning.

I have looked at some used pianos during my search, but none of them really left an impression on me. Did not like the feel of the keys on the used pianos as well.

The piano is amazing to an amateur like me, I love the sound, the touch, everything.

Thank you everyone ! I kept coming back to read up more to make sure that I am making the right move.

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#1183922 - 04/20/09 06:19 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano [Re: DayDreamer]
W Boye Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/16/09
Posts: 2
Loc: Singapore
Hello everyone, like to check if anyone has played the W. Hoffmann H120 upright at Cristofori? Is it worth to buy it at 10.7k compared to say Yamaha or Kawai costing about the same?

Thanks

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#1184932 - 04/21/09 10:39 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Sheue]
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
Originally Posted By: Sheue
Digitus,

Thanks for your note. The touch and voice are definitely much better before the servicing. I'm not sure what he did to the hammers was correct but what's more important now is to get the "feel" back. Would you recommend I approach RP and request Uncle Robert to help me even if it means I have to pay for his service? I'm afraid the warranty will be void if I get someone outside RP.

I never thought of tuning the piano myself..... but you've given something to think about! smile


Hi Sheue,

Sorry for the slow response. I forgot that thread notification was completely reset for all members after PW moved to this new platform.

A good, accurate tuning can make a lot of difference in terms of perceived touch and voice. I was told this and also read about it but really only believed it after I started doing my own tuning and also tuning for a friend who is a skilled pianist with a highly sensitive touch and ear. I also tune my own piano (and my friend's) because we both want specific temperaments that nobody else in Singapore seems to be able to tune.

I repeat what I have said before, that tuning your own piano is not easy.

On the maintenance and warranty question, whether having a non-RP tech work on your piano voids the warranty or not depends on what the tech does. For example, if you get someone else to tune your piano it normally should not void the warranty. However I know of one piano dealer of a high-end brand who takes exception even to tuning by others, and voids warranties because of that.

If the tech does more than tune, e.g., regulation & voicing, then the warranty conditions have definitely been broken.

My take on warranties is that if you look after your new piano properly (including locating it in a properly climate-controlled room) and no defects surface within the first one to two years, then the piano is very likely going to be fine after that. You can then safely forget about the warranty and look for another tech. At least use up your free tunings first! Sounds like a long time to wait, but your piano will be with you for years, and it will spend the first year or two developing its full 'voice'. So there's no hurry.

As for asking Mr Chiu to work on your piano, well, that's up to you and your wallet! laugh

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#1187021 - 04/25/09 09:52 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano [Re: artemov]
guokwla8 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 5
Loc: Singapore
Hi. I have just recently picked up piano lessons and am considering to buy an acoustic piano. Renner Piano at Peace Centre has been strongly recommended to me. Was told that the more well-known brands (eg. Yamaha, Kawaii) are not reliable. Is that true? Renner stocks brands like Otto Renner, Alexander Hermman, Elington and Rogers. Am interested in one of their Otto Renner models. Any advice on this brand?

All advice is welcome. Getting really confused now...

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#1187049 - 04/25/09 10:38 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: guokwla8]
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
Hi guokwla8, welcome to PW.

To remove your confusion, I suggest that you educate yourself first before continuing your piano search. Don't hurry or listen to what you've been told so far because I can assure you that whoever said those things to you is lying to you.

The best place to start your own education is to buy a copy of the Piano Book by Larry Fine. Kinokuniya usually has it in stock along with the latest annual supplement. You can find out more about what's in the book by reading the buyers comments on Amazon.com: HERE.

The brands that you mentioned, Otto Renner, Alexander Hermman, Ellington, and Rogers, are all made in China with a fancy European-sounding name stuck on to them. They may or may not be decent pianos, but for your source to suggest that they are more reliable than Yamaha or Kawai immediately pegs your source as having no credibility whatsoever.

However, don't confuse the above stencil pianos with decent, major Chinese brands like Pearl River and Hailun. The latter in particular make some very respectable pianos.

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#1187348 - 04/25/09 07:04 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Digitus]
guokwla8 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 5
Loc: Singapore
Hi Digitus,

Thanks. I have been doing research, but not getting enough and conflicting information. What about pianos with parts made in elsewhere (like Japan/Germany/England) but assembled in China?

How about made in Japan ones? Am also looking at Yamaha's M112T. Any views on this model?
_________________________
NA

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#1187440 - 04/25/09 10:08 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: guokwla8]
WCH Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/12/07
Posts: 55
Loc: SINGAPORE
Hi guokwla8,

You can give Renner Piano a miss !
They claimed to be professional and better than others but please dont take their words for it.

Go to their website ( http://www.renner.com.sg/service.html ) and you know what i mean.

I hired them to transport my piano to my new apartment a few years ago. Was disappointed with the way they treated my piano. Not only their lorry has no overhead canvas, they didnt even bother to put a cloth over my piano to shield it from dust and HOT sun.

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#1187495 - 04/26/09 01:02 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: WCH]
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
Hi guoklwa8,

For someone who is new to pianos, selecting one (whether new or used) often seems to be an impossible task. It has been covered many many times over in various PW threads over the years, and in this particular thread too.

It doesn't matter where the parts come from as long as the piano manufacturer is reputable and has the resources to stand behind the quality of its products and honour warranty claims. What's more important is how the piano plays. Pianos differ in price because of parts quality, manufacturing quality, and most importantly the overall design of the piano that determines the quality of the tone and the touch. There are pianos that cost a lot but sound awful, and there are pianos that are very reasonably priced but are in fact very good instruments in their own right.

When you buy a piano you are trying to satisfy three objectives:
  • Good tone and touch
  • Meet a budget
  • Have access to a piano tech who can help you keep the piano in good shape

I'll give two answers, a short one and a long one.

The Short Answer

Set your budget at somewhere between $6,000 and $12,000. More is better. Get a piano from Yamaha, Kawai or Hailun that meets your budget. If you have deep pockets then you need to read the long answer.

The Long Answer

The first two objectives are often mutually exclusive, but it is possible to find a good compromise. But you MUST do your homework.

If you haven't already got Larry Fine's Piano Book please do so ASAP. It condenses into one volume all the essential things you need to know about how pianos work, how to care for them (though variations are needed for a tropical climate), and how to at least be able to inspect a piano to determine its general physical condition. It also gives a rundown of all the brands available in North America. Obviously a large subset of those brands are also available here in Singapore, and that's why the book is still valuable in the local context.

There are two things about the Piano Book that you need to keep in mind.

First, the prices in the Piano Book are valid only for the U.S. Nevertheless you can still use them as a very rough guide to relative pricing differences in Singapore. It doesn’t always work. For example, Steinway pianos in the U.S. are made in their factory in Astoria, NY. Steinway pianos in Singapore come from the Hamburg factory, and their prices are significantly higher than the equivalent NY Steinway models. Also, some models that a manufacturer offers in the U.S. aren’t available in Singapore, and vice versa.

Second, the piano categories (referred to in the piano world as ‘tiers’) must not be taken as the Gospel Truth. Even Larry Fine himself warns against that, but many people seem to think that he is the God of Pianos and therefore what he says must be so. Nevertheless, the Piano Book’s categorization is still useful because it gives an idea of how a manufacturer stands in relation to all other brands. It may not be entirely accurate and is subjective to a point, but there is nothing else out there that even comes close to bringing some structure and sanity to the task of buying a piano.

After having been suitably educated, you then start making the rounds of the dealers and playing on on as many pianos as you can, good and bad. That’s if you are looking for a new piano. If you are in the market for a second-hand piano then you will have to also scan the newspaper classifieds, supermarket bulletin boards, etc. It is useful to set yourself a budget to start with, and have an idea of how much upward flex you have. What many, many piano buyers (including myself) have found is that piano shopping is Very Bad (TM) for your wallet.

Beginners are not the only people new to pianos. Many expert players (yes including teachers), are also new to pianos. Why do I say this? Well, if all you’ve ever had exposure to was the upright (on which you clawed your way up to Grade 8 or ABRSM diploma) and the examination piano, then you are new to pianos. In other words you have not had exposure to a good range of what’s available, from the very best (in Larry Fine’s Tier 1), to the inexpensive mass market brands (in Tier 4).

Therefore, in order to make an informed choice, you need a baseline from which you can reference and compare other pianos as you do your search. You can use any piano or brand as your baseline, but I strongly suggest that you pick a brand from Tier 1 or a good one from Tier 2. Even better (if your skin is thick enough, heheh) is to sample as many pianos from the Tier 1 & 2 brands as you can find. None, I repeat, none of the brands are intended to sound or feel alike. There will even be variations within a brand. And there will be variation between different pianos of the same model, though this is generally less, particularly from the large, high-quality mass market manufacturers.

So, the idea is to work your way down the brands in the Piano Book’s tiers until you find a piano that meets your budget and has the most agreeable tone and touch for you at that price.

I am almost certain that at some point in your search you will toy with the idea of increasing your budget by some big number! I did. Twice -- once for an upright and once for a grand piano! But please be sensible OK? Don’t sell the dog, spouse, kids, and home just to get the piano of your dreams. A more modestly priced piano can still be a tremendous instrument to play on if it has been properly prepped and tuned.

So, now that you are about to embark on your top-down piano search, you run up against your first problem. Not all of the Tier 1 brands are represented in Singapore, even though their web sites may list one or more Singapore dealers. Then, of the Tier 1 brands that are really represented in Singapore, not all their models are available for demo here. But that’s OK if all you want is a reference point.

If you are buying a Tier 1 piano then there are two ways around this: buy sight unseen, or visit the factory. Buying sight unseen is not for the faint-hearted, and you must have enough trust and confidence in the manufacturer’s ability to deliver a piano with their signature tone and touch. The tech in Singapore then must be skillful enough to be able to do fine adjustments to the voice to suit the buyer. The tech must also be competent enough to be able to troubleshoot and fix all but the most serious problems that might arise.

And then the next problem - not all dealers of Tier 1 and even Tier 2 pianos properly prep nor tune their showroom units. That’s a shame. It’s like walking into the a car showroom and going for a test-drive in a car with under-inflated tires, wrong octane petrol in the tank and engine not firing on all cylinders. Also, showrooms can be acoustically dreadful. Some are so acoustically dead that the piano sounds dull and lifeless. Some are so ‘live’ that you get aurally fatigued after playing for 5 or 10 minutes. You’ll have to try to compensate mentally for the showroom acoustics.

To assess a piano's tone, one of the best ways is to have someone else play the piano while you step away from it. The piano bench is actually not where you hear the piano’s full and true tone. Typically the piano store will have at least one person who can play a bit for you. If they don't then bring along a friend who can!

As for the piano's touch, well you have to prepare a fixed set of tests and play it yourself at every piano that you are looking at. The Piano Book has some suggestions. You can also add things like pieces you have already learned. Don't feel shy about playing even if you are a beginner. It's not an ego contest. Everybody had to start somewhere, even the flashy player showing off his/her skills in the showroom. If the sales rep treats you like dirt or you feel that he/she is trying to do a hard-sell job on you, just walk out. You have choices.

You may ask how a beginner with very basic keyboard skills can tell what's good and bad about a piano's touch. Actually, its not that critical. Touch becomes really critical only when you reach higher skill levels, where the successful execution of difficult passages can depend on the quality of the piano's action. But it really doesn't hurt to try to educate your fingers as early and as often as possible. Many piano owners, including expert players, still visit showrooms to play on other pianos. It's a sickness! smile

As for piano inspections, you must do them if you are buying a second-hand piano from a private seller. Also ask about the piano’s history. There just aren’t many piano techs in Singapore that you can confidently engage to assess a piano for you, so you’d better learn how to do it yourself. The Piano Book give you some useful tips about this. If you are buying the piano (new or second-hand) from a dealer, then you’ll just have to trust that the dealer has prepped and/or repaired the piano properly, and that the warranty means something.

The third objective is kind of hard to meet in Singapore because there is only a handful of very good techs here. Otherwise, the general level of piano tech expertise here is only just adequate, even within the largest piano dealers/agents. I know this statement is offensive to piano techs in Singapore, but that has been my experience, and also the experience of other piano owners that I know. It's not that they are willfully mediocre, but because the level and quality of training here is just not comparable to what is available in the U.S. and Europe.

Fortunately, pianos from the established and reputable brands are usually well-made. If you look after them properly and nothing bad happens within the first couple of years then they are likely to last for years, decades even. If you require access to better techs than what your dealer can provide then you can always ask for recommendations in this forum.

The piano trade in Singapore seems to be particularly vicious compared to say in the North American continent and Europe. The market is small, popularity of the piano is falling, and there are too many dealers. As a result, some dealers resort unnecessarily to ‘creative’ sales and marketing tactics that are sometimes downright distasteful (such as bad-mouthing other brands and dealers). Be wary of a dealer that does this instead of selling his or her pianos on their own merits. Actually if I hear Dealer A saying bad things about Dealer B and the brands that he carries, my instinct would be to go and check out the competition! I did, and I ended up buying my grand piano from Dealer B and I could not be happier with my choice. To me, if a dealer is saying bad things about another dealer or another brand, it tells me that the dealer is afraid of his competition. If he wasn't then there is no need to try to shoot down the competition.

So it is in your own self-interests to forearm yourself with enough knowledge about the piano before you open your wallet. At the very least you must have a basic understanding of how a piano’s mechanicals work and something about the maufacturers and brands that are available in Singapore.

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#1187515 - 04/26/09 02:11 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: WCH]
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
Originally Posted By: NW
Hi guokwla8,

You can give Renner Piano a miss !
They claimed to be professional and better than others but please dont take their words for it.

Go to their website ( http://www.renner.com.sg/service.html ) and you know what i mean.

I hired them to transport my piano to my new apartment a few years ago. Was disappointed with the way they treated my piano. Not only their lorry has no overhead canvas, they didnt even bother to put a cloth over my piano to shield it from dust and HOT sun.


Ah, nevermind piano transportation. I read what they wrote about their tuning services: "The time needed by a qualified tuner to tune a piano is half an hour. Some novice tuners need an hour to two to tune....Our master craftsman takes only 15 mins to get the whole piano to A440 concert pitch."

Their tuners must therefore be immeasurably better than the best piano techs in the U.S. and Europe. Almost superhuman in fact. I'm very impressed! But they are not coming anywhere near my piano, that's for sure.

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#1187516 - 04/26/09 02:17 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Digitus]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1601
Loc: Toronto
why on earth is this thread so long?!

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#1187518 - 04/26/09 02:21 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Digitus]
sgpiano1332 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 7
hi.i was deciding between the pianos, yamaha YUS5 and kawai K8. The prices btw these 2 pianos are SGD$12,000 for yus5 and SGD$12,600 for k8 respectively. i'm buying for my daughter. i don't knw much about pianos. pls give me some advice. thx. =)

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#1187519 - 04/26/09 02:24 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: AJF]
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
Originally Posted By: AJF
why on earth is this thread so long?!


Because its a place for members in Singapore to talk about topics which are (usually) specific to Singapore without spraying threads all over the place. smile

If you think this thread is long, you should take a look at the one on Chopin. Or the one titled "your piano picture of the day".

What does it matter to you anyway? smile

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#1187525 - 04/26/09 03:01 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Digitus]
guokwla8 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 5
Loc: Singapore
Digitus, NW,

Thanks for your input and advice. I'm definitely going to buy the Piano Book by Larry Fine. Hard sell is the last thing that I'm looking for. Honesty is so hard to come by...
_________________________
NA

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#1187536 - 04/26/09 04:20 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: guokwla8]
Oblacone Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/21/08
Posts: 344
Loc: Norway :D
i dont believe it... 3 years... this is a long post
_________________________
Kawai KG-2C - my 5'10" of sheer happiness and joy!

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#1187544 - 04/26/09 04:53 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: sgpiano1332]
WCH Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/12/07
Posts: 55
Loc: SINGAPORE
Originally Posted By: sgpiano1332
hi.i was deciding between the pianos, yamaha YUS5 and kawai K8. The prices btw these 2 pianos are SGD$12,000 for yus5 and SGD$12,600 for k8 respectively. i'm buying for my daughter. i don't knw much about pianos. pls give me some advice. thx. =)


I think Digitus' reply to guokwla8 is already quite comprehensive. Try it out and listen for yourself which sounds gd to you.

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#1187547 - 04/26/09 05:04 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: WCH]
WCH Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/12/07
Posts: 55
Loc: SINGAPORE

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#1188745 - 04/27/09 11:30 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: WCH]
wiltam Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/27/09
Posts: 1
Hi everyone,

I am thinking to get a piano for myself and my 4 years old daughter. We both are starting up only. I can play one or two simple songs - Canon D, Turkish March... I want to keep on learning at least for another 5 years. Hopefully my daughter can go on and finish at least grade 5.

I tried Yamaha M112, JX113, JU109 and Kawai K3 and K5. For me, I prefer the Kawai K5, as the key feel better, not too light. And overall the piano sounds really good.

When asking the price from Robert Piano, they quoted me $9750. Well it seems a bit too much for me. But I'm telling myself, if I am going to get one and plan to keep for at least 10 years. I probably should not be saving the 1-2k different.

Just wonder, is the price $9750 reasonable? Because I read some earlier reply saying it should be around $8500. That was about 1-2 years ago. The price may have changed by now. But I am still hoping to get a rough estimate here.

Does anyone recently buy a K5? Can share the price?

Hopefully can get some advices from here on buying my first piano. smile


Thanks,
Willie

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#1188813 - 04/28/09 04:22 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Digitus]
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
Originally Posted By: Digitus
Originally Posted By: NW
Hi guokwla8,

You can give Renner Piano a miss !
They claimed to be professional and better than others but please dont take their words for it.

Go to their website ( http://www.renner.com.sg/service.html ) and you know what i mean.

I hired them to transport my piano to my new apartment a few years ago. Was disappointed with the way they treated my piano. Not only their lorry has no overhead canvas, they didnt even bother to put a cloth over my piano to shield it from dust and HOT sun.


Ah, nevermind piano transportation. I read what they wrote about their tuning services: "The time needed by a qualified tuner to tune a piano is half an hour. Some novice tuners need an hour to two to tune....Our master craftsman takes only 15 mins to get the whole piano to A440 concert pitch."

Their tuners must therefore be immeasurably better than the best piano techs in the U.S. and Europe. Almost superhuman in fact. I'm very impressed! But they are not coming anywhere near my piano, that's for sure.


aiyoyo... Hot sun for a while nebermind lah..
it has a hard polyester finish mah..

Maybe mover wants to present the piano HOT, like Pizza Hut, garantee sio sio, no sio, next piano free... hehehe

Fast tuning speed is really an respectable skill. Like a industrial robot, click click click, cloak - times ~280 times.
_________________________
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587

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#1188823 - 04/28/09 04:57 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: snoopycar]
WCH Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/12/07
Posts: 55
Loc: SINGAPORE
Originally Posted By: snoopycar
Originally Posted By: Digitus
Originally Posted By: NW
Hi guokwla8,

You can give Renner Piano a miss !
They claimed to be professional and better than others but please dont take their words for it.

Go to their website ( http://www.renner.com.sg/service.html ) and you know what i mean.

I hired them to transport my piano to my new apartment a few years ago. Was disappointed with the way they treated my piano. Not only their lorry has no overhead canvas, they didnt even bother to put a cloth over my piano to shield it from dust and HOT sun.


Ah, nevermind piano transportation. I read what they wrote about their tuning services: "The time needed by a qualified tuner to tune a piano is half an hour. Some novice tuners need an hour to two to tune....Our master craftsman takes only 15 mins to get the whole piano to A440 concert pitch."

Their tuners must therefore be immeasurably better than the best piano techs in the U.S. and Europe. Almost superhuman in fact. I'm very impressed! But they are not coming anywhere near my piano, that's for sure.


aiyoyo... Hot sun for a while nebermind lah..
it has a hard polyester finish mah..

Maybe mover wants to present the piano HOT, like Pizza Hut, garantee sio sio, no sio, next piano free... hehehe

Fast tuning speed is really an respectable skill. Like a industrial robot, click click click, cloak - times ~280 times.



Are you referring to Bionic woman is it ? :-P

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#1188830 - 04/28/09 05:51 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: WCH]
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
bionic woman and man is ter-ter-ter-ter-ter

Very comic !!
I remember when steve austin ran at high speed
it was actually a slow motion scene with the ti-it-ti-ti-ti sound effect

Bionic woman- is it Jamie?, could not have been a pianist.
She hears and are overload by all the stray harmonics smile hehehe

Ah ha, you must be a '60s boy watching these sat 8pm shows in the '80s
_________________________
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587

Top
#1194827 - 05/07/09 01:07 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: wiltam]
Maxlee Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 63
Hey Wiltam,
If you are just starting up with the piano. If you really love kawai, why dont you take up Kawai upright like Kawai BL12 or BL 31 reconditioned that would only cost you about USD 3000. Let me know your budget

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