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Topic Options
#1195237 - 05/07/09 06:18 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Digitus]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1622
Loc: Toronto
OH:) It doesn't matter to me. I was just amazed. Thanks for the clarification.

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#1195424 - 05/08/09 01:48 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Maxlee]
WCH Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/12/07
Posts: 55
Loc: SINGAPORE
Originally Posted By: Maxlee
Hey Wiltam,
If you are just starting up with the piano. If you really love kawai, why dont you take up Kawai upright like Kawai BL12 or BL 31 reconditioned that would only cost you about USD 3000. Let me know your budget


USD3000 (S$4406) for a reconditioned piano ??
I would rather buy a brand NEW good china-make piano.

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#1195443 - 05/08/09 02:43 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: AJF]
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
Originally Posted By: AJF
OH:) It doesn't matter to me. I was just amazed. Thanks for the clarification.


No problem. I should apologize actually for my previous response to you. It may have come across as being kind of prickly. It wasn't intended that way!

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#1195465 - 05/08/09 06:13 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: wiltam]
WCH Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/12/07
Posts: 55
Loc: SINGAPORE
Originally Posted By: wiltam
Hi everyone,

I am thinking to get a piano for myself and my 4 years old daughter. We both are starting up only. I can play one or two simple songs - Canon D, Turkish March... I want to keep on learning at least for another 5 years. Hopefully my daughter can go on and finish at least grade 5.

I tried Yamaha M112, JX113, JU109 and Kawai K3 and K5. For me, I prefer the Kawai K5, as the key feel better, not too light. And overall the piano sounds really good.

When asking the price from Robert Piano, they quoted me $9750. Well it seems a bit too much for me. But I'm telling myself, if I am going to get one and plan to keep for at least 10 years. I probably should not be saving the 1-2k different.

Just wonder, is the price $9750 reasonable? Because I read some earlier reply saying it should be around $8500. That was about 1-2 years ago. The price may have changed by now. But I am still hoping to get a rough estimate here.

Does anyone recently buy a K5? Can share the price?

Hopefully can get some advices from here on buying my first piano. smile


Thanks,
Willie



wiltam,

I have PM you

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#1196029 - 05/09/09 06:41 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: WCH]
Maxlee Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 63
USD3000 (S$4406) for a reconditioned piano ??
I would rather buy a brand NEW good china-make piano.


NW, a reconditioned piano from Japan. I had personally check on the condition of it of new hammerheads, new springs, and all materials are from England.

Honestly a brand new china make piano had so many problems and you end up on repairing. The china pianos are cheap indeed but they do not have any quality control on the product. Question is would you buy something value for your money and the difference in Japan and China quality.

In addition, most of these recondition piano of Yamaha and Kawai are actually a high demand for southeast asia market

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#1196061 - 05/09/09 08:25 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Maxlee]
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
Hi Max,

Your claim that Chinese made pianos "do not have any quality control on the product" is very surprising. You cannot say this about all Chinese pianos. And I think you know it.

There are many many piano manufacturers in China, ranging in size from the small cheap and nasty operations to very large and respectable manufacturers like Hailun and Pearl River. Hailun (who also make Wendl & Lung) pianos for example are of sufficiently high quality that some high-end piano dealers in the U.S. also carry them along with other tier 1 pianos. I'm sure that these dealers would not risk their reputations by carrying shoddy product.

Please be careful with what you say and make sure that you don't create unnecessary and unwarranted fear, uncertainty and doubt.

As for new hammerheads, new springs and materials being from England, I hope you are not suggesting that these things alone mean that a particular piano is in good condition. What about the soundboard, pin block, strings, regulation, voicing, etc?

I wonder if you are a piano dealer. Your posts suggest that you could be. If you are indeed a dealer then the forum rules require you to state your business name and brand affiliations in your signature. smile See HERE.

Originally Posted By: Maxlee
USD3000 (S$4406) for a reconditioned piano ??
I would rather buy a brand NEW good china-make piano.


NW, a reconditioned piano from Japan. I had personally check on the condition of it of new hammerheads, new springs, and all materials are from England.

Honestly a brand new china make piano had so many problems and you end up on repairing. The china pianos are cheap indeed but they do not have any quality control on the product. Question is would you buy something value for your money and the difference in Japan and China quality.

In addition, most of these recondition piano of Yamaha and Kawai are actually a high demand for southeast asia market


Edited by Digitus (05/09/09 08:28 AM)

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#1196188 - 05/09/09 01:44 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Digitus]
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
The made in china pianos nowadays are so different from some of the older ones like XingHai smile
At least the price is good to help a budding pianist starts up , ya ??
_________________________
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587

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#1196955 - 05/10/09 09:44 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: snoopycar]
TCH Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 4
Loc: Singapore
Hi everyone, am new here and this is my first post. I'm looking for information on the Cramer pianos sold here. Are they made in the UK by Kemble? (since they were bought over in 1964)

What's your opinion on their quality (the price range includes the Kawai K8 and Yamaha YUS5)?

For those who bought one, are you happy with your purchase and their after sales service, etc?

thanks !!

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#1196994 - 05/10/09 10:55 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Maxlee]
tanjinjack Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 851
Loc: Malaysia
Originally Posted By: Maxlee
USD3000 (S$4406) for a reconditioned piano ??
I would rather buy a brand NEW good china-make piano.


NW, a reconditioned piano from Japan. I had personally check on the condition of it of new hammerheads, new springs, and all materials are from England.

Honestly a brand new china make piano had so many problems and you end up on repairing. The china pianos are cheap indeed but they do not have any quality control on the product. Question is would you buy something value for your money and the difference in Japan and China quality.

In addition, most of these recondition piano of Yamaha and Kawai are actually a high demand for southeast asia market


A high demand doesn't mean that it's good right?
And why is it high demand in SEA market only?

Well, my guess most of the customers here are ignorant enough and do not know how to compare. They have no knowledge on piano and practically trust whatever the dealers say, especially when dealers spend some tactics on it.

I met those dealers before, trying to trick you, telling you everything good about the piano, but fail to give me an answer when I asked for a permission for technician checking up. And hey, what are you afraid of? Answer: Smart customer.

You see how many people in SEA, and only how many of them actually post here. Check the traffic, there aren't many visitors as well I believe.

I agree with Digitus, you do sound like a dealer.

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#1197033 - 05/11/09 12:06 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: TCH]
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
Hi TCH,

Welcome to PW!

The Kemble Piano Group in UK makes some Yamaha models for Europe. See HERE. They also own in-house brands, of which Cramer is one. All new Kemble models most likely have exact Yamaha equivalents. That's hardly surprising considering that Yamaha owns 60% of the Kemble Piano Group. Where Kemble pianos may differ from Yamaha would be in the cabinetry. Everything else inside is mostly the same, though there *may* be soundboard differences, but I don't know for sure.

Originally Posted By: TCH
Hi everyone, am new here and this is my first post. I'm looking for information on the Cramer pianos sold here. Are they made in the UK by Kemble? (since they were bought over in 1964)

What's your opinion on their quality (the price range includes the Kawai K8 and Yamaha YUS5)?

For those who bought one, are you happy with your purchase and their after sales service, etc?

thanks !!

Top
#1197053 - 05/11/09 01:14 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Digitus]
Maxlee Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 63
Digitus and Tanjinjack,

This is a forum. I am just expressing what is actually happening in real life. I know it is hard to critise people especially mentioning that i could be a piano dealer. It makes no point for me to prove myself. All i know that i am not yet i am trying to help people to get the price and the quality of the pianos. I had good network with some of the great piano manufacturers and factories in both Malaysia and Singapore.

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#1197063 - 05/11/09 01:30 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Maxlee]
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
Hi Max,

What is happening in real life is that piano dealers are not helping to properly educate the piano buying public. There is a lot of misinformation and downright lies and bad-mouthing. If you know more about pianos then you should not be making claims, for example, that made-in-China pianos do not have any quality control. That kind of comment is not helpful because it is not true of all Chinese manufacturers.

Yes this is a forum, and you can say whatever you want. Nobody is stopping you from doing that. All I am asking of you is that you help educate rather than confuse and misinform.

By the way, which piano manufacturers have factories in Singapore and Malaysia? I had no idea that there was any piano manufacturing going on in either of these two countries. smile

Originally Posted By: Maxlee
Digitus and Tanjinjack,

This is a forum. I am just expressing what is actually happening in real life. I know it is hard to critise people especially mentioning that i could be a piano dealer. It makes no point for me to prove myself. All i know that i am not yet i am trying to help people to get the price and the quality of the pianos. I had good network with some of the great piano manufacturers and factories in both Malaysia and Singapore.

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#1197071 - 05/11/09 01:58 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Digitus]
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
ai yo yo ...
Nothing wrong being a dealer mah. Why you all like to swan Max saying he must be a dealer ?? hehe i'm not taking sides.
Just that, Max, if you say china piano have no QC, its good you can provide some example, so that we all can learn.

I have encounter 1 new piano china soundboard cracked rib personally before smile but i won't say all are like that. Of course i was puzzle and frustrated at that time cursing what the &$%#@^*$xxxing QC ?? Uneven damper spring rate #$^#$&^%^*@ etc

But that's just 1 bad egg i come across. I also heard from other tech some of the encounters they had. I just listen and learn.

Max, i like to welcome you to the forum to share more encounters you have experience with us if you don't mind. I'm open to all information. I'm sure some of us here can benefit from your sharing too smile

I'm sure you have you're reasons. I too are a bit wary of the rabbit, shanlu mike, mercury paint, all the funny things china do.... hehehe
_________________________
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587

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#1197074 - 05/11/09 02:07 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: snoopycar]
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
yayayapapaya, i also heard before. last time in singapore arrr, there is 1 piano manufacturer. But now have meh?
Malaysia more fantastic. Is it Challen? I read about a guy who is very keen in making pianos, is it in penang? I really admire the determination and entrapunership!!!
_________________________
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587

Top
#1197075 - 05/11/09 02:10 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: snoopycar]
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
Hello hello TanJinJack

Aiyo.. waiting for you to jio me go KL to do some pianoshopping for you.. hehehe
Well have you sercretly got a Hailun grand 178 already ?? ar??
_________________________
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587

Top
#1197083 - 05/11/09 02:29 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: snoopycar]
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
I wasn't saying that being a dealer is bad. It's just that most of us have had less than enjoyable interactions with many local dealers. I apologize if my previous posts @ Max came across as being hostile. It was not intended to be, if you see the smileys at the end! I'm sure that all of us would welcome constructive and educational input from a piano dealer.

It would certainly be fantastic if Max with his extensive connections can help us cut through the BS. laugh

Ultimately there is no substitute for thorough self-education.

Originally Posted By: snoopycar
ai yo yo ...
Nothing wrong being a dealer mah. Why you all like to swan Max saying he must be a dealer ?? hehe i'm not taking sides.
Just that, Max, if you say china piano have no QC, its good you can provide some example, so that we all can learn.

I have encounter 1 new piano china soundboard cracked rib personally before smile but i won't say all are like that. Of course i was puzzle and frustrated at that time cursing what the &$%#@^*$xxxing QC ?? Uneven damper spring rate #$^#$&^%^*@ etc

But that's just 1 bad egg i come across. I also heard from other tech some of the encounters they had. I just listen and learn.

Max, i like to welcome you to the forum to share more encounters you have experience with us if you don't mind. I'm open to all information. I'm sure some of us here can benefit from your sharing too smile

I'm sure you have you're reasons. I too are a bit wary of the rabbit, shanlu mike, mercury paint, all the funny things china do.... hehehe


Edited by Digitus (05/11/09 02:33 AM)

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#1197089 - 05/11/09 02:46 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Digitus]
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
Yeah smile

Basically, when comparing china piano,
one cannot say all are like cherry QQ
(some say HDB multistory carpark also cannot go up smile
But it's damm cute, like a Garfield cat face laugh

I only know '92 Honda civic VTEC are highly demanded
the 3 door too, looks like a shoe.
_________________________
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587

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#1197093 - 05/11/09 03:00 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: snoopycar]
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
Originally Posted By: snoopycar

I only know '92 Honda civic VTEC are highly demanded
the 3 door too, looks like a shoe.


:D:D

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#1197097 - 05/11/09 03:16 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Digitus]
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
i can hear someone else giggling too ...


often ppl ask, if i hv $3000
which piano should i buy?

I'd say buy a $300 piano
use the $2700 to buy a good teacher(Hanon and Chezny fan type) for a year.

After that $8000(bonus of from secret account) will appear automatcally.
Now the quest is U1 or K5??


hahaha
joke only
_________________________
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587

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#1197194 - 05/11/09 09:33 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: snoopycar]
tanjinjack Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 851
Loc: Malaysia
Originally Posted By: snoopycar
yayayapapaya, i also heard before. last time in singapore arrr, there is 1 piano manufacturer. But now have meh?
Malaysia more fantastic. Is it Challen? I read about a guy who is very keen in making pianos, is it in penang? I really admire the determination and entrapunership!!!


Yes, some of the Challen is made in Malaysia. The price is not cheap as well. Last time I see is about RM15,000, even more expensive than Hailun!

http://musicalproducts.asiaep.com/musfac.htm

Not sure it's where though.

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#1197195 - 05/11/09 09:34 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: snoopycar]
tanjinjack Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 851
Loc: Malaysia
Originally Posted By: snoopycar
Hello hello TanJinJack

Aiyo.. waiting for you to jio me go KL to do some pianoshopping for you.. hehehe
Well have you sercretly got a Hailun grand 178 already ?? ar??


No la.
Economic crisis, then the money all dump into my tertiary education cost already. Now I don't even dare to ask my dad for an upright la..
Haha..

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#1197202 - 05/11/09 09:46 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: tanjinjack]
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
Wow! I learn something new everyday! The manufacturing arm of the business seems to be Musical Products Sdn Bhd, located in Lahat, Perak.

Has anybody actually played on these pianos? At that price they have to be decent surely!

Originally Posted By: tanjinjack
Originally Posted By: snoopycar
yayayapapaya, i also heard before. last time in singapore arrr, there is 1 piano manufacturer. But now have meh?
Malaysia more fantastic. Is it Challen? I read about a guy who is very keen in making pianos, is it in penang? I really admire the determination and entrapunership!!!


Yes, some of the Challen is made in Malaysia. The price is not cheap as well. Last time I see is about RM15,000, even more expensive than Hailun!

http://musicalproducts.asiaep.com/musfac.htm

Not sure it's where though.

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#1197255 - 05/11/09 11:19 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: tanjinjack]
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
Originally Posted By: tanjinjack
Originally Posted By: snoopycar
Hello hello TanJinJack

Aiyo.. waiting for you to jio me go KL to do some pianoshopping for you.. hehehe
Well have you sercretly got a Hailun grand 178 already ?? ar??


No la.
Economic crisis, then the money all dump into my tertiary education cost already. Now I don't even dare to ask my dad for an upright la..
Haha..


You can sideline earn some income being a piano consultant ... hehehe (as i read you give lots of interesting advance advice) laugh smile hoho hehe bong bong just kidding ok?
Well, it's good that you are realistic, tahan abit more with your exsiting piano. One day i'm sure you'll be an engineer and buy your dream piano. Hopefully by that time no others things distract you like, girls, cars, RC hobby plane ... hehehe Cheers
_________________________
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587

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#1197620 - 05/11/09 09:44 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: snoopycar]
TCH Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 4
Loc: Singapore
Thanks Digitus,

If Cramer = Kemble, which is almost equivalent to a Yamaha (except maybe for the cabinetry) then the difference I heard could be mostly attributed to the soundboard.

Question is whether there's a real difference and is it worth paying for. Its hard to know what the equivalent Yamaha model is with the lack of information, which I believe is a way for Yamaha-Kemble to segment their customers with different brands and price points of the same thing.

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#1197694 - 05/11/09 11:47 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: snoopycar]
Bihua Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 175
Loc: Singapore
Originally Posted By: snoopycar
I'm sure you have you're reasons. I too are a bit wary of the rabbit, shanlu mike, mercury paint, all the funny things china do.... hehehe


Haha...piano won't cause death lah...unless ur baby go lick the bench, the cabinet and the keys which is poisonous to do so... smile

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#1197710 - 05/12/09 12:10 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: tanjinjack]
Bihua Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 175
Loc: Singapore
Originally Posted By: tanjinjack
Originally Posted By: snoopycar
Hello hello TanJinJack

Aiyo.. waiting for you to jio me go KL to do some pianoshopping for you.. hehehe
Well have you sercretly got a Hailun grand 178 already ?? ar??


No la.
Economic crisis, then the money all dump into my tertiary education cost already. Now I don't even dare to ask my dad for an upright la..
Haha..


So u coming to Singapore for your tertiary education? Or staying in M'sia? Or going out of SEA region? Or still thinking? smile (Yeah, I KPO!)

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#1197717 - 05/12/09 12:17 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Bihua]
Maxlee Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 63
hey guys. sorry for being rude. I finally visited the piano factory in Malaysia manufactured for 30 years! I was briefed with the introduction and the process on how a piano actually made in Ipoh. It is true about musical products that i am proudly amazed Malaysia had its own piano factory. Just for you guys to check out the pianos, their showroom piano, Vienna music is in KL. Just for your info, all the piano are not only Challen. I manage to glance on Challen, C.Steinbert, Barratt & Robinson and Witton & Witton. I also realized that the Hoe family is the fourth generation in malaysia and singapore owns the name of Wagner piano sdn bhd (KL)(previously Union piano in singapore)Vienna Music (KL), Musical products (ipoh), Weng lee (ipoh), Wagner piano company (KL) and wagner music shop (Ipoh).

Based on the quality control on the piano market in SEA, I checked with some of the steinway tuner and he explained in detailed to me the problems. However you can refer to your tuner on technical problem, mettalic sound and key sticking. DOnt get me doubts, i am not critisizing anyone but i was showned and explained. Maybe it is my point of view based on facts and professional piano makers, piano tuners and piano manufacturers in Malaysia.

Just to let you know the prices in Musical products are not expensive. Come on an upright ranging from RM8,100 to RM16,800. The grand piano ranging from RM23,500 to RM 114,000.

Lastly i based my claims from facts and a huge network in the piano industry. Just PM me if you need more info.


Edited by Maxlee (05/12/09 12:19 AM)

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#1197722 - 05/12/09 12:23 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Digitus]
Bihua Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 175
Loc: Singapore
Originally Posted By: Digitus
Wow! I learn something new everyday! The manufacturing arm of the business seems to be Musical Products Sdn Bhd, located in Lahat, Perak.

Has anybody actually played on these pianos? At that price they have to be decent surely!

Originally Posted By: tanjinjack
Originally Posted By: snoopycar
yayayapapaya, i also heard before. last time in singapore arrr, there is 1 piano manufacturer. But now have meh?
Malaysia more fantastic. Is it Challen? I read about a guy who is very keen in making pianos, is it in penang? I really admire the determination and entrapunership!!!


Yes, some of the Challen is made in Malaysia. The price is not cheap as well. Last time I see is about RM15,000, even more expensive than Hailun!

http://musicalproducts.asiaep.com/musfac.htm

Not sure it's where though.


Think Singapore got their dealers...you can try the pianos there bah...
http://musicalproducts.asiaep.com/mudealer.htm

Emmanuel Music House Pte. Ltd.
and
Sonare Music School

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#1197739 - 05/12/09 01:12 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Bihua]
Maxlee Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 63
OOps i left the most important information. VIENNA MID YEAR SALE. As i was in the factory, Mr.Hoe mentioned that every year there is a mid year sale up to 50%. The dates and the prices are not published yet. He mentioned that it will be held in June or July.

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#1197760 - 05/12/09 02:10 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: TCH]
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
Another variable could be the hammers, but there's no way to know for sure unless the manufacturer tells you.

Here's an interesting thing. The Tier 1 German manufacturer Sauter (I have one of their grands, the Omega 220) makes a range of uprights some of which are exactly the same strungbacks and actions, but have different cabinets. I have played three of them in close proximity to each other, and they ALL sound different. The basic Sauter signature 'voice' was umistakably there, but there were distinct tonal variations.

In the Cramer vs Yamaha situation, I guess you can safely assume that instruments from both brands are well-made. Then your selection should probably be made on the basis of the best sounding/playing instrument within your budget.

Originally Posted By: TCH
Thanks Digitus,

If Cramer = Kemble, which is almost equivalent to a Yamaha (except maybe for the cabinetry) then the difference I heard could be mostly attributed to the soundboard.

Question is whether there's a real difference and is it worth paying for. Its hard to know what the equivalent Yamaha model is with the lack of information, which I believe is a way for Yamaha-Kemble to segment their customers with different brands and price points of the same thing.

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