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being professional and courteous is the only way they could survive in this small island. i believe strong reputation and strong referral are fundamentals to their survival. it's not everyday people walk to buy a piano. when they do, they must make a sum out of the customer, or else they have to close their shop. think, when's the next time you will buy another piano?

the economy of scale from the supply chain aspect does not exist here and that's why you see these high prices. i hate it some begin to badmouth another make or shop when i ask their opinion. guess, they are aiming on the fundamentals of their competitor's survival and that's a fact of life for some dealers over here.

one dealer even told that his main income comes from ignorant parents buying piano for their child and believing a cheap one is good enough. so in 3-5 years time they come in again to trade-in and buy a more expensive one. the dealer says this is what most parents prefer in case the child's interests died and that's the way it is and good for both parties.

i love to discuss about pianos with technicians who plays the piano and technician who doesn't.
so far i've only met one who plays. have you come across any?

they do give important factors to consider when buying a piano that may sounds like below,

1. level of piano proficiency you have
2. pieces you like to hear on your piano and you want them to be on your piano
3. cheap to own, but may be costly to maintain
4. what are these costs?
5. nice to own, but may be too extravagant for even serious amateurs
6. how long you need this piano for?
7. warranty
8. important note you need to differentiate: do you like the sound or can you live with that sound?

i'm seriously thinking of importing a german piano over as i strongly believe they are overpriced here for reasons i'd mentioned above. anyone had done this before and saved an arm and leg?

hi artemov,

before you move so quickly on your 1st purchase, please find out where and who you will be learning classical piano from. most likely you'll get yourself a personal one whom will vist you every week so that you are using the precious piano that you proudly own. they might give you some good advice on your needs (not piano, but piano playing). thereafter you may plan to buy the piano yourself unless you are absolute sure they are not getting commision from the sales too and giving you a lemon since you are a newbie!

i'm also a serious photographer and i liken piano playing like phototaking. it's the person behind the camera that makes the difference, not the camera. any good player will find a workaround whichever piano he or she plays.
in photo forums, people say a steinway under the hands of incompetent player is ****!

believe me, photographers a more particular on nitty gritty details than most concert pianists.

as such, please focus primarily on your real target, which is actually you know what.

For 1st time buyer...

1 factor to consider is resale value. Try ... oops(censored) to stick to Yamaha or Kawai - $3000~$4200 should be able to get a good Japan imports. The actions should be in good condition too. Use a torchligh to inspect for worn-out buckskin hammer butt , if necessary.

But I have tested 1 brand called Victor at cristofori bedok. It sounded mellow and responsive. price was ~$2900. It's a good-buy. But that was few months back...

Also, some shop offer garantee buy-back scheme. This is useful when you finds you need to upgrade.

Wah, I'm discovering more and more Piano shops !!!
Some located at warehouse 7th level !!
Some spray paint with newspaper masking even while customer browsing around.... hehehe

Did anyone tried the Schimmel Grand at Asia piano 2 months back? It can melt my ears.... so nice, so powerful.. is it still there? out of my pocket's reach. But I regretted i didn't consider a Kawai grand there a year ago ..

hi snoopycar,

yup i did. it sounded real powerful but lacking the overtones that i'm particularly picky about. however i couldn't get used to the actions in my short visit there. i believe it's still available in the shop.

i wonder what is it doing there in that shop? 2nd hand piano dealers can give sellers a better price and still make from the new buyers?

Hi Mendo.
Yep, was it like medium heavy? i also recalled the inertia was also on the high side - good for strong fingers, perhaps good for expression. Wonder which type of music does pure tone piano suit? Richard Clayderman pop pieces? Mozart K545?

Hmmm.. overtone notes. Is it like Steinway sound? muddy but colourful? Nice. I hear this kind of sound often on the radio- international station, when it plays piano music and others. I can hear the overtone of the after-notes, especially when the player pause for a while and lets the piano sings....

I heard its on consignment. Has the woodgrain finished G2 been set up yet?? oohhh ... Anyway, it's a nice shop where you can talk about piano stuff(technical) casually with the owner and learn some tips too ..

hi snoopycar,

that schimmel grand sure is different from the ones tried elsewhere. to me, it definitely sound very full and mellow while losing its bit of the clear, calm sounds i normally have no problem associating with schimmels. its good for jazzy or ragtime pieces where i personally would prefer tne heavier inertia. that would definitely increase the lifespan of the felt and hammer from the way i play.

it won't do for my mozart or chopin or even bach pieces. imho. you can try these pieces again on that unit and the ones at thompson plaza. i can't describe the overtone features in words for you.

you can invite some of your friends to listen which one they prefer. they may make very sound judgement even they don't play the piano.

i normally comment a piano at its face value, knowing that just voicing and regulation and slight tweaking can do magic.

Ok... I was incline to think that it was more suitable for classical pieces. - I need more exposure

artemov: How's the piano shopping going? Narrow down to any particular piano yet?

Hi snoopycar,

I am still searching. Will be trying more models this weekend.

How's your own search? Any model in mind?

Cheers.

Eyeing for a $7~9K 2nd hand good condition grand piano.... Although i'm an adult beginner, i'm dreaming of a GP just for fun. Anyway, i think i can't get a GP for this small sum of money.

Right now i'll have to be contentent with my Yamaha U1A. Would you be keen in my U1A??
Happy shopping.......

way to go snoopycar!!
grand piano sure will lift your interests even more.

think you need to stretch your budget a bit more in order to get a good grand. otherwise you'll be better off with the cheaper good upright.
your present budget could get you a very good new 'professional' upright which easily gives better sound quality and maybe better action than very old grands. unless you are using your grand as a piece of decor. new stuff means better warranty coverage and better resale value.

if i'm more into classical, which you said you are more inclined to, i'll go for a slightly warmer and mellower sound.

what i did was to bring along with me a simple music piece on my mp3 when i visited the shops and play the same piece on the pianos and see if they match close to the sound i would like to hear. this piece was recorded when i played a while on a very expensive grand at one of the shop here. this sound was what i like best and its played on many notable piano recordings.

of course, if that sound is constantly in your head, then you won't need an mp3.

problem for me the last time was for every piano i tried, there is a piece of music which one piano do very well compare to others. of course the goal is to find one that could suit most of your entire repertoire. but after much comparison and deliberation, i still can't get over the sounds of a few pianos.

this is only for the sound category with respect to tone, texture, or whatever other people call.

then there are other factors like touch, action etc. no one knows what you would like best except yourself and that may take a while.

Somebody's placed a Yamaha C2 on ebay singapore for 4k, if anyone's interested:

http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/YAMAHA-GRAND...198QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Looks like a gray market import judging from the 2 pedals, but might be worth considering...

On 2nd thought, i don't think they made C2s with 2 pedals. It's probably a G2.

Zhonhern
Oh yes, Thanks for the info. I'm trying to register into Ebay to contact the seller.

Thanks Mendo for the encouragements.

Near the end of bidding, the seller called me to come down to take a look. There were other parties going at different time slot.

Well, I went down to inspect the G2 with my Lumileds 3W torchlight.... hehehe
As I was testing and playing, bidding continues..
It ends at about $5300. I finds the G2 below my expectation, so i didn't top up or try to secure the instrument and politely turn down the marriage - didn;t hymotize me. If it were good, I could have blink blink..

Finding: serial no. is about 27 or 29million, didn't remember clearly. Strings, slightly rust stain at tuning pins area. Brass are darken. Hammer are fluffy - needless to say, deep grooved. Touch were poorer than my U1A.
Soundboard, no cracks. Finishing good. Key surface, good.

Tuning were well done by Century Piano. Best of all, the Tone dynamics were great. When player softly, the tone was round. When played hard the overtone sets in, WOW!!! Trills feels fast. No regrets not buying.

Question. Perhaps the Singapore humidity have taken a toil on GPs here. Unless the owner invest in temp controlled room.

How long would a new GP last in our weather? I mean, if I bought a new GP and place it in my 4rm HDB room without climate control, how long would it last before the light-colour wood turns dark, spotted and rust sets in on the strings?


Well, the search continue....

Anyone has a Kawai or and good Grand for sale ??

For a used grand on that sort of budget in Singapore, you should definitely give Mr. Kwan of Emmanuel & Sons a call. I got my piano there earlier this year. It is a beautiful instrument (25 years old) in beautiful condition, and the price was extremely reasonable.

It's a slightly odd looking place, and he has a changing selection of pianos of various ages and various states of repair (including some real curiosity pianos, such as an ancient Steinway Square Grand). However, his technicians seem to work with real care, and his prices are excellent.

The whole experience was very positive - he does not 'hard sell' (quite the opposite - he almost seems reluctant to part with his treasured collection), and he is very honest about his pianos and their condition and suitability. Obviously, he may not have a piano in stock that suits your needs, but if he does then I can't recommend him highly enough. Well worth checking out.

Hi everybody,

I was in the process of piano buying when I came across this forum. Your discussions have always been interesting and helpful. Thought I'd come in and join in the fun as well.

I have been playing on and off for the past 15 years and now am really interested in starting up jazz piano. In all I've visited Robert Piano, Chiu Piano, Yamaha, new piano stores at Balmoral Plaza, Piano Man, Renner and a small store at Orchard Tower.

We finally went to Robert Piano and got a new Toyama upright over the weekend. I must say that of all the China made pianos, I am most pleased with Toyama's round, sweet and mellow tone as well as it's padded touch. The associates at Robert Piano were simply fantastic. I went to their Centerpoint & Millenia Walk showrooms and had a chance to chat with Mr. Robert Chiu, Ms. Edna, Mr. Tony and Mr Chiu's grandson Nick. They advised me to play on every single piano that they had. From their very old used Thompson all the way to their brand new Steinway grand. I spent a total 3.5 hours at their Millenia Walk showroom. It's really fun as Mr. Tony and Nick are such a fantastic jazz and classical piano players. They literally played every single piece I wanted them too :p We chatted just like old friends. What a wonderful service!!!!

My new piano will arrive in the next few days. My hubby hinted that we'll get a Steinway upright if I were to be able to play beautiful jazz pieces by next year Wish me luck guys!

Btw artemov, how did you search go? Hope you'll find the piano that you like soon. Where will you be taking lesson?

Cheers!

Kelana

Wow, did you get the 4 strings treble blutner i saw few months back? Beautiful piano and craftman detail finishings....

Yes i "window-shop" there just last Sat. Yes it's a living museum. got barber chair, classical organ $300, 77string fukuyama ,piano, footpump organ, 70's electric yamaha piano(band type), harsicord ... I also saw strink wrap Yamaha U1,U2,U3. I think it's Japan imports. They are catching up... Quality are improving.
Chatted with Mr Kwan and he was replacing hammer for a Foster Grand ... amazing. Very sincere guy, look like Beethovan - the cheek bone!! Prices there are reasonable, of course.

Strange, what's with the low gate at the front of the shop? Didn't notice it 6months back?? Regulation? Someone ran off with a piano? Notice the sales lady always plays the 2chord "sound of silence" end off with a A-minor Appregio?? Well done!!hehehe ..... Actually i dream of having a sales/workshop like that! Would installing aircon be better + carpet?? Perhaps... nice to i don't mind the no-frills. That sort of keep cost donw and pass the saving to the customer - just my observations.

3.5 star award!

Hi again artemov,

I also like the Kawai K3 but decided not to get that as I'm saving up for one of the German pianos. With regards to your very first question about Kawai pricing in Singapore, you might want to go to Robert Piano and ask them to show you a book by Larry Fine. The fair price range of each piano brand is listed in the book, thus you can have a rough idea of how much new Kawai should cost. Personally I wouldn't consider the Indonesian made Yamaha, I've tried several of them, and feel that with the same price, few other Chinese pianos (non-Yamaha) have better touch and tone (more expressive and musical. But that could be a personal taste.

You mentioned that you wouldn't mind increasing your budget to get a good piano that will last. I'm not sure how much you are willing to pay but like wzkit say, you can never go wrong with a Kawai. My Kawai at my parents' home is older than I am but I still enjoy playing at it as it still produces beautiful sound and nice touch. For slightly over S$15k, you can get a very good Schimmel upright.

I used to consider buying Petrof but after trying, found that many of the Petrof uprights are quite inconsistent in touch and action. At times, many keys were stuck. They are also pretty heavy.

Hope you're having fun with your search. Do keep us updated of your search, decisio as well as your first music lesson. I'm sure you're going to have a blast playing the piano after waiting for so long

Cheers!

Hi Juzzjazz,

Glad that you got your piano. Me? Still looking

I read somewhere that a jazzy piano has quite different characteristics from a piano suitable for classical music. Brighter? Shorter sustain?

Will probably pay Emmanuel & Sons a visit.
Might check out Petrof also.

Cheers.

Hi Juzzjazz,

Oops ... in that case will probably give Petrof a miss.

As a beginner, I think I will go for something more economical first. Either a Chinese, or a used piano. Any recommendation?

I will only upgrade when I finally achieve something. Like you I am also aiming for a German piano in the future, maybe a Sauter or an Ibach grand!!

Cheers