Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano

Snoopycar:

Figurative diapers lah. New baby.

The Omega (not Alpha!) will becoming with a proper cover, made to fit the case. It's from a German company that specialises in these things.

The lid will be open most likely on the singer's stick (even shorter than the short stick) from the the first time I play during the day. I will close the lid and put on the cover before I go to bed.

There is also some work ahead to persuade the two cats not to jump onto the piano. For that I have my secret weapon - packing tape put sticky side up across some large flattened cardboard cartons, which are then placed tape-up on the top of the piano when the lid is down and the cover on.

There is also the Shakey Can of Doom , but I haven't yet figured out how to use it effectively in this context.

you never mentioned about cats ???
paw gloves would be a good idea

The cats have never been a problem. Very occasionally one will find its way to the top of the K-8, but they know I don't like it so it doesn't happen often at all. I keep their claws trimmed all the time, so the K-8 has never been scratched.

now you'd have to include you cats photos in the thread too. what breed of cat do you own? Local Kucinta? Pursian? turquoise eyes?

Uhhh....my cats are camera shy. Enough about me in the thread anyway, I think.

yah okay..

smart pets, they seems to recognise rectangle gadets with a lens.

switch you to low profile mode.
back to piano disscusion mode, click click

Need some advice here on RH control. My piano will be placed in the living room area, and the whole apartment would prob be empty (windows closed etc) 80% of the week, as I'll pop by only weekends. Will this pose a high humidity problem?

If you can maintain the RH around 65 - 70% all day long then you'll be fine. I posted a little bit earlier in the thread that I achieve this by not opening doors and windows to the outside, and turning on the aircon twice a day. If there is someone in the the apartment to do this for you then fine. If not you can program the aircon to turn on and off once a day, each time for an hour or so.

Kawai pianos are very easy to look after because the only things that are really affected by high humidity are the pin bushings and soundboard. But those are perfectly OK at the RH levels I mentioned above.

I am of the school that does not believe in having an always-on heating rod in the piano unless it is always exposed to outside air.

Thanks for the tip. Will turning on the heating rod perpetually do more harm to the piano?

All pianos in the showrooms waiting for owners. But still cant help picking anyone anywhere. :rolleyes:

Indeed very fortunate to have each friend tacking along with me at each diff location despite none knows a single dah-thingy. Next search shall be a one man show man!!!

Anyway, when's the recession sales? i thought it has already been tag on with the GSS?

Just replying to an old post if you don't mind. I'm sorry to hear about your unpleasant experience. I'll just like to share that I had a very different experience altogether at the Millenia branch. I was served by this middle-aged dealer, very professional and polite. Mind you, I wasn't dressed formally, was in my weekend gear of t-shirt, berms and flip flops. She could have chased me out of the showroom if she had wanted to.

So I put my hands on the grands, even the Steinway, although I was clearly aware of my financial limitations. Played pieces by Bach, Mozart, Chopin, Schubert - she did not restrict me to the number of pieces that I could try, but encouraged me to take my time. I was very pleased by her professional service.

I was also well served by the lady at Hailun. She wasn't imposing and was informal, which made me comfortable. I spent almost 2 hrs in the showroom trying all the different models.

Would like to share a tip here though. When trying on a piano, play a classical piece instead of pop music (read richard claydeman), even if it means a grade 1 or grade 2 classical piece, it is ok. Some dealers tend to judge you by the type of music you play, or even your repertoire.

Have fun piano shopping. I certainly enjoyed mine.
-------------------------------------------------
My last hunt stop there, of course i wont mind hearing more I think we met the same nice lady at Millenia branch. She's a great pianist too. I wrote this post becoz i was taken aback by 2 diff type of experience fm same coy. I may go back to her although still hesitating after the very unpleasant experience at the other side.

Basically no one will shun expert players coz they wont deter them from producing good music from their sets. May i ask what conclusion will they get by judging type of music played?

No much choice as i only know very limted pieces.anyhow anyhow play so long its something bearable. dun care la

Well the main fear is that an always-on heating rod could over-dry the wooden parts of the action. Why don't you try not using the heater first?

heater always ON cannot over dry !!!????
i'm incline that heater can only reduce RH% by ~10%. Enviroment RH is 80%, the most you can get in the piano with heater is ~RH70%

Don't scare ppl leh.....

Sorry I should have qualified that statement. I am talking about a heater bar in a grand that is closed AND covered most of the time. That is slapper's context, which does not appear to be typical for Singapore.

I put wireless RH sensors in my K-8 at the bottom of the case and near the action. There really wasn't much of a difference with the heater bar on and off. Just a couple of degrees and on average about 2 - 3% RH difference. So I just turn it off, and trust my general environmental RH control with airconditioning.

[Edit: The difference between the RH sensor near the action and the one outside the K-8 is typically max 5%, not the 10% that you mention. It could be that the K-8 has a large vent at the bottom edge of the upper front panel, that allows more of the outside air to get into the piano. The RH difference could be greater with other pianos that do not have any vents.]

So what I've experienced with my K-8 confirms what I have heard from knowledgeable techs, that leaving the heater bar on in a typical Singapore home is just fine. Actually I suspect that one of the key things about an always-on heater bar is the fact that it causes air to circulate, with some fresh air being drawn into the case.

Well the effectiveness is not proportionaly linear. Like the torque vs rpm curve of a car engine .. hehehe

If day is very humid like after rain then sun comes out sparkling.. no wind.. ok, RH can be 95%. But a aircon room may still be at the low side RH65%. At this 2 extreme, the heater rod can't perform the same, it is relative. Maybe at 95% it can reduce to 85%. At 80%, it can reduce to 72%. At 65%, if cant reduce much, maybe to 60%. You know what i mean?

Anyway heater rod is good to prevent fishy smell too Have you ever open the top lid of a piano whose heater kapoof many years ago?

So the general sense is, if room is aircon, heater rod is optional. If no aircon, keep heater on better.
Is this advise ok?

I think that's a good general rule for the tropics. And even if the room is airconditioned it might make sense to have the heater bar turned on from time to time. I used to do that with the K-8, leaving the heater bar on for a day or two a week. A timer switch will make it convenient to have the heater bar on for a couple of hours a day. Available from hardware stores in malls and maybe also your neighbourhood electrical store.

Sauter's recommendation is to control the RH of the piano's environment, and NOT to put a heater bar in the piano, regardless of whether its a grand or upright.

Hi Digitus,
Can we then infer that Sauter does not recommend placing a humidity control device in the piano, but does recommend controlling the relative humidity of the room in which the piano is placed?
It makes good sense to me. Heater bars going on and off suggest fluctuations in humidity near the critical components of the instrument.These changes or fluctuations can do permanent damage.

Cheers,

Robert.

Hi Robert,

There are actually three aspects to this, as far as I can see.

The first is the control of RH on a long-term basis, where the micro-climate around the piano should vary as little as possible, ON AVERAGE, over weeks/months.

The second is the fact that there will be short-term RH variation on a daily basis. In my case, for example, if I have friends over and the aircon is on for a few hours, the RH can drop down to the low 40's. But once the aircon has been turned off the RH slowly creeps back up to between 65 to 70% over the course of a few hours. In any case, Sauter (and I guess most other manufacturers of 'tropicalised' pianos) use a varnish on their soundboards that dramatically slows down moisture absorption. So short-term RH variation is typically not an issue.

Sometimes it spikes up to the high 70's say when I open the patio doors to go do some work on the potted plants, or if the exhaust fans in the kitchen have been on for a while and outside air is being slowly drawn through the small gap under the front door. But getting it back down to the 65-70% range is simply a matter of turning on the aircon for about 30 minutes or so.

The third aspect is the need for air circulation within and around the piano, to prevent pockets of dampness from forming for extended periods of time. If you play your piano regularly then there is usually no problem. But if your piano is closed for a lot of the time (such as in slapper's case) having a heater bar turn on and off is probably a good idea because it induces some circulation around the action and to an extent the keys. You will also need air circulation around a piano, particular if it is backed up close to a wall.

And yes Sauter prefers control of the room's micro-climate rather than in-piano heaters or humidifiers.

I spoke at some length with Ulrich Sauter about RH control and pianos, and his basic message is to just use your common sense. There is no need to panic or be paranoid. Some short-term variation is perfectly fine, even the large ones that I experience in my home. It's not as if your piano will fall to pieces or seize up unless its really abused. Pianos, if well made, are actually very hardy and resilient things.

It will make sense, here in Sg to climate control the room where the piano sit, especially an costly piano. Aircon set a de-humidifier mode, lets estimate the montly cost about $45, est $1.5 per day. I think its more worth it, and you get to play in a cooling enviroment. Without aircon, the fan, whether ceiling or floor fan, create a noise and reverbrating sound refection, can be annoying. With aircon, provided your blower unit doesn't give out the yakyakyak noisy rotor fan problem, you can hear and savoy the tone/rich timbre, and fall into a nano second dream of being in German - and the yummy giant pork leg set meal....

And you get to prolong the "new" effects, strings won't tarnish(as fast), especially the shinning bass... get the fresh wood/glue smell...
cat stay cool, less hyper active cat means less trouble, mischieve. Maximun life span, enhance resale value(oops, i know you will never sell your darling omega).

Digitus:
And we like to visit your omega in a cool shiok aircon room too, do we need to bring ang-pow?
And gucci-gucci your 2 cats...