Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano

hi juzzjazz,
great that you got a good piano. i believe mr chiu tune your piano himself.


hi snoopycar,
GB2 no fight with good uprights. if you topup another 1-3k, you'll get a better performing and new piano. not forgetting also good resale price which that GB2 will not have any in 10yrs time.

anyone tried perzina at sonata music house yet? read many good reviews at US. been a bit busy to cover many shops we got here nowadays.

also, who do we have as best tuners in town?

Thanks for your message Mendo. I can't wait till they deliver it this week.

Artemov, it's good that you're taking your time finding the ideal piano. In fact if this is your first time buying, trying out as many pianos and reviewing them carefully is a must.

What you read about piano needed for jazz vs. classical is only true to a certain sense. Many authors of piano think that pianos like the Yamaha or some Baldwin and New York Steinways which produce metallic and rather brassy sound/tone are usually preferred by pop and jazz players. On the other hand, classical pianists tend to prefer the mellow and rounder tone with not so light action for their repertoires. Personally I do not agree with them. Whether one is playing classical pieces or standard jazz songs, I still like pianos that produce warm, mellow and round tone with expressive bass. So I hope you're not misguided and end up restricting yourself to "classical piano" vs. "jazzy piano" while shopping for yours. I agree with Mendo when he says that "no one knows what you would like best except yourself and that may take a while". Just play as much as you can and buy the one you really love. Even if you can't play now, just play the scales on all octaves to get the feel.

As for Chinese pianos, having tried the Pearl River 8 years ago, I swore off Chinese pianos until recently when I got a chance to play on Moutrie and Toyama. It's such a pleasant surprise and must say that I am very impressed with the quality of recent Chinese pianos. In fact Moutrie feels like a European piano If you're considering a Chinese piano, you certainly have got to try Moutrie and Toyama (both at Robert Piano), Schonbrunn (Chiu Piano), Steinberger & Soong??? something (Renner Piano), Nottingham and Knight pianos (PianoMan Shop). I simply love the Moutrie and Toyama; Schonbrunn and that Stein & Soong something seem ok and decent. I don't like Nottingham and Knight at all. But you've got to try them all for the sake of comparison and who knows you might like them yourself. Other Chinese pianos are Perzina and Wendl & Lung. Avoid Pearl River.

If you're getting a used piano, best to buy it from reputable dealers. If buying used from a private party, always hire an independent & experienced technician with you. Enjoy the fun!


Cheers!

Exactly what i was thinking!!

Yes, i have visited Perzina at the 5th level above Asia Piano... it has a 27xxxxx U1 and is sadly used as a "attention re-director". The sales will tell me ... you hear.. so bright.. you know, sales tactics or technique? i didn't reveal i'm having a U1 too and it doesn't sound that bad...

Anyway, 1 or 2 are nicely voiced. The rest has nice tenor, but treble breaks into a metalic sound abrubty !! The sales says it's nice. "old wong sell pumkin" ..sorry about being straight forword. Is reverse crown soundboard special?? I would norminate it as average. One of the nicest piano is the schimmel upright a Chiu piano, but it's $14,000.00!!! Phwah!!

Why would you want a Singapore dealer to show you Larry Fine's book when it comes to pricing?

Fine's pricing numbers are useless outside the US, and unless you're buying Steinway, they can be off by anywhere between 15%~45% in the US.

Please disregard Larry Fine's prices when shopping outside the US.

Exactly what i was thinking!!

Yes, i have visited Perzina at the 5th level above Asia Piano... it has a 27xxxxx U1 and is sadly used as a "attention re-director". The sales will tell me ... you hear.. so bright.. you know, sales tactics or technique? i didn't reveal i'm having a U1 too and it doesn't sound that bad...

Anyway, 1 or 2 are nicely voiced. The rest has nice tenor, but treble breaks into a metalic sound abrubty !! The sales says it's nice. "old wong sell pumkin" ..sorry about being straight forword. Is reverse crown soundboard special?? I would norminate it as average. One of the nicest piano is the schimmel upright a Chiu piano, but it's $14,000.00!!! Phwah!!

Another good GP to recommend Wilhelm Tell at Gramercy. The 5'8 is about $14,000. I can see the "engine" is very good. I mean the actions are clean, not shabby wooden shavings... soundboard looks very high standard, light grain colour! definately not laminate SB. if i got $$, i'd just might get a WT.

Indeed Snoopycar, I love that Schimmel upright down at Chiu piano Did you get a chance to try out the Perzina? How was it?

Axtremus:

Thanks for pointing that out, while I wouldn't want to mislead anybody, I won't disregard Larry Fine's pricing while shopping outside the US. Though prices in the book are indeed for pianos in the US market, based on my shopping experience, I have to disagree that it applies only in the case of Steinway. For example, the prices quoted to me by Schimmel dealers in San Francisco and Boston are very close or not too far off with the one quoted by 2 dealers in Singapore (quoted in S$). That goes the same for Petrof piano prices in San Francisco and Indonesia (Indonesian Rp) and Young Chang baby grand pianos in Minneapolis and Bangkok (Thai Baht). Those price points fall nicely in between Larry Fine's quotation.

Moreover, I didn't say one has to take Fine's number on the dot, but it's going to be useful to get an idea of price range so as to know whether one is way off or not. Hope this is not confusing

hi all,

i used a copy of larry fine at kino****** for reference. hee hee, i got a bit of photographic memory. i couldn't get one from nlb.

the figures are good for me....and i don't even have to multiply 1.57! that only works for japanese pianos. so, a very good reference.

as for european pianos, it shows that the prices in singapore is downright absurb! that's why i stay away from these over here. unless is a collector's item or something very far more in value why would most general people pay almost twice the price or even more. these pianos eventually breaks down at the same rate as higher range japanese pianos imho.


hi snoopycar,

for the $14k model you saw, which one exactly is it? i wanna confirm something on pricing before i shoot off!

Hmmm, my experience around the cornor from you is quite a bit different when I compare Fine's price to piano prices in Bangkok. One good thing is that Yamaha and Kawai are consistantly cheaper than in the US by quite a good margin. Steinway retail price is almost double whereas Fazioli is almost identical.
Other European brands fall somewhere around 10-50% more than in Fine's book.

Hi Mendo, it's not an exact price as i was there last dec browsing and buying some music book. I just try out the china(budget) ones and chit with mr Chiu about imports piano. He kind of discourage it as the "conditioning" ain't right for local.... At that time, i wasn't really taking notes of what model it was as i just happen to be comparing around - not so educated yet, you know what i mean? don't shot me...

hi snoopycar,

i'm not shooting you. just the thought a price quoted to me was for a model i've seen recently at that shop was actually quoted to you at a substantial discount??!! well, you said that was in december.

so it must be a schimmel 120i that you've seen.

hehehe , at that moment, any thing black sounds nice..

I wonder, so far, does my frank commentary hurt any shops? if so, i apologize.. :p

well, as long everyone keeps their comments constructive and true, everyone is entitled to their opinion, humbly or not.

i believe this is what most people including myself to come into a forum like this to get real individual experiences which otherwise would be quite difficult to get while we are shopping or discussing pianos.

people at a few shops i met stated that not everything in any forum, including this, are truth. and they are correct on this. so take it with a pinch of salt.

some may be quick to fault the dealers or manufacturers when some minor faults are present when really certain things take time to settle. or they simply don't take good care of a piano when they should. acoustic at your home plays an even more important part on the sound of your piano immediately, while in short term, humidity creates havoc, your piano sound gets better, on longer term, it's the piano player itself!

others could be just directing forummers attention to certain models for individual, commercial or personal benefits or even satisfaction or maybe even grudges. well, that's life. in many car forums if someone come in and ask what car to buy, an audi lover will say his or her audi is the best that he or she has driven. this could be only that person is driving only audi all this while. that's how many car clubs got started and each thinks their cars are the prized ones.

one comment about bad reviews or feedbacks on one model could be just a lemon out of hundreds or thousand this manufacturer could have sold.
one comment like this makes many people stay away from this model and nobody including buyers gain from this.

and one important thing is sometime it is how the dealers at your local area prep the pianos for your playing. this is especially true is singapore. all the pianos are not 100% factory prep. i've heard many same models at different shops giving different responses to me. any good tuner or technician could prep your purchase unit into something better that what you heard at the showroom. i've got a friend whose oriental model prep by a master technician until it sounds even better than a 48in schimmel!

by filtering all the noises from these threads you can really get useful information and that's how i got to know many other wonderful pianos that i've never heard of. till today i'm still enjoying going around listening for the perfect one, which i know doesn't exist, but getting closer....

like many photographers will say, it's the person behind the camera that produces a great picture, not the camera.

i also add, not all great photographers use the same or very expensive tools.

Wow, seems so quiet.. is it due to the return of the haze?? hehehe

Any update on the Singapore Piano scene?
-The White Wilem Tell Empire190 is delicious..... voicing is very even, very sweet tone -lid closed. Bohemia128 very romantic
-Piano warehouse at Bk Bt is quiet...
-private 2nd piano seller, i've seen 2 with broken stings... 1 with 2 broken sting!! rusty tuning pins...

Have anyone been to the piano shop at ind park 2? The display sets were locked out - ahh to prevent kid from banging the keyboard as i was told. You want to test? wait ah, i'll get the key for you... but ah huh.. there were 2 korea grands there. They have expanded the teaching studio. Remember to remove your shoes before you enter - 1st Piano shop with shoeless entry!! way to go!!

Ah! I just found this thread. I'm a newbie on these forums; posted a question about Kawai's use of synthetics in their action. I was looking for a second-hand upright within a budget of $5K, but after playing on a Yamaha YUS5 and today on a Kawai K8, I'm leaning towards doubling+ my budget for a new K8. Robert Piano @ Millenia Walk said that they'll check with Mr Chiu to see what kind of deal they can offer me on the K8.

A Sauter would be nice, but I can't justify the $$$ for an attempt to resume playing after 23 years away from the piano.

Have you considered the K-6, K-5, or even K-3?

great to hear kawai k8 is in town. must go and try! how was it? i only managed to try on the k3 sometime back.

kawai and i believe yamaha too, have been using plastic actions since many years ago. saw a few 2nd units between 8 - 15yrs old using them and they still look good and work.

so i think durability is not a problem with plastics. in fact hi performance plastics are miles ahead in technical aspects compare to wood including spruce or mahogany, from my study in engineering. higher tensile strength, no warping, lesser porosity, more consistent physical properties etc.

the newer models, also with better improved plastics are even more responsive on the actions.
however, i think plastics is not the only factor that determine the better actions.

Yes, I have. I played on the K3 and K6, and then the K8. The action is identical in all three, but the sound of the K8 and its genuine sostenuto pedal win hands down.

I really like the K8, which is why I've held back on buying the second-hand BS-3A that I found. I'm now waiting for Robert Piano to get back to me with a price. Mr Chiu is presently out of the country.

i've tried the k3 and didn't like the sound at all even though the action is a level better.

the older k series like k30,k50,k60 and k80 sounds very good. i've only compared the k3 and k25 / k30. have you tried these older models and compare them with the new series?

I'm going back to Robert Piano at Millenia Walk after I send this reply, to play some more on the Kawais. Maybe they have a K80 there. I'll be bringing along some music that I fished out from storage - I hope that the people in the showroom have good ear plugs!

My recollection of the K-3 from a couple of days ago was not positive. It sounded 'strangled'. And you'd expect there to be differences between the K-3 and the K-6 and K-8. The latter two have agraffes, duplex scales, tone release ports, and underfelted hammers. The K-6 and K-8 are also 132cm tall whereas the K-3 measures in at 122cm.

I'm also going to have a go at the Shigeru Kawai SK3. No I can't afford it, and no I don't really have space for it in my flat, but.... Aargh!