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#83051 - 11/10/06 04:04 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
 Quote:
I'm also going to have a go at the Shigeru Kawai SK3. No I can't afford it, and no I don't really have space for it in my flat, but.... Aargh!
Oh we can split the cost and share the SK3 and put it in someone with a large house !! \:D How about a "time-share" piano??

How much? $35,000? not problem. Find 35 guys with $1000 each... But put in whos house ??
:p
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#83052 - 11/10/06 05:16 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
 Quote:
Originally posted by snoopycar:
 Quote:
I'm also going to have a go at the Shigeru Kawai SK3. No I can't afford it, and no I don't really have space for it in my flat, but.... Aargh!
Oh we can split the cost and share the SK3 and put it in someone with a large house !! \:D How about a "time-share" piano??

How much? $35,000? not problem. Find 35 guys with $1000 each... But put in whos house ??
:p [/b]
Hahaha! Put in my house, naturally! I'll make space for it. Actually the SK3's nett price is around $45k. If only my pocket wasn't so darned shallow! The amazing thing is that the SK3 is still cheaper than a Steinway upright.

The K8 is going for about the same price as the Yamaha YUS5 after discount, which is not surprising. There is a newly uncrated Kawai K80E available for $1.3k less.

So I started out with a $5k budget to buy a second hand upright, and now I'm trying to more than double the budget to snare the K8 or the K80E. Why can't one win Toto on demand?!

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#83053 - 11/11/06 11:07 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
Digitus:

Actually, with $5k( depending on your bargaining skill), you can get a very good U5. You can request the "master" voicer to voice to your taste. But, even a U1(10year below, with original parts,min usage) can suffice if you're able to pick and choose a good one - good tone and touch. I can bring you to a good shop and be of assistance to you on how to pick a "worth-it" piano, if you like(PM me loh). no, i'm not a piano salesman

I like Kawai K8 too, by looking at the web, haven't tried it yet. Very advance man... For me, I'm getting a very old, refurbish K8 to play-play. Of course, nothing compares to a brand new silky smooth action and the fresh wood smell.. grand look-alike fall board .... yummy yummy.

But i think K8 has no middle slient pedal - for night practise ..
In that case, you can get the K6, if you don't mind doing without a sostenuto features....

In a enclose casing, unlike the grand with its lid open, i not sure if the effects of the duplex can be heard. can anyone confirm my thought?

Make your saliva drip... have you tried a 165 Chrisofori Grand - about 10k?? Sales guy says it's german harp, strings, hammers.. and it's very well voiced-i was thick skin to test drive it, knowing i can't afford one. Go try it tomorrow loh at Bedok branch. Agraffe, duplex..... no harshness. but i think the middle F# has a buzz :0 maybe a loose damper... hehehe
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#83054 - 11/11/06 11:20 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
Axtremus Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 6180
snoopycar,

Why would you expect there to be a "very old, refurbished" K8 at all? The K8 is newly introduced this year. Perhaps you're thinking K80 rather than K8?

As for getting a U5 for $5k, I assume you're referring to used[/b] U5. I cannot imagine a new U5 to be available anywhere for $5k.
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#83055 - 11/11/06 02:03 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
Aiyoh, snoopycar you are very naughty, putting ideas into my head.

Thanks for the offer with second-hand Yamahas. I've been into their showroom in Plaza Singapura and played on the U1, U3, and YUS5 (no U5 in the showroom). The tone is a little too nasal/bright for me. The YUS5 is the best of the lot though.

The lack of a damper pedal is not really a big issue. If I need to practice at night i will use my Roland A80 master controller connected to a MIDI module with piano samples.

As for enclosures, the K8 and K6 have what Kawai call tone releases.

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#83056 - 11/11/06 06:55 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
Yep,$5k is refering to a used U5 ups for adoption \:\) I saw a 1965 Kawai K8 on the harp. Maybe it's so old, they reused the K8 - totally different action of course. Anyway that old k8 is refurbished piano.

Hehehe, i too went to a Yamaha showroom, but it's the Thomson branch. i just press a few keys on a U3 and can hear the tricord beating -slightly OoTune. is it my ears ?? The C2 is quite musically satisfying. Last 3 month got offer, $21k, now back to $24k !!

Didn't mean to phycho you.... if one can afford, of course buy new!! Want to hear scary things about used piano? dead note, mis-aligned hammer wear, loose tuning pins, metalic twinewinewine, sticky keys, "open durian" hammer felt, slugish action? Tell you a funny thing. Last time i went to the parkway parade branch, went inside about 5pm on a sunday... the kind lady was polishing the pianos. I browse around but all the fallboards were close.. yes can i help you she ask? yes pls open all the piano so that i can try them - just kidding.. So i just open a K5 and press a few notes. Wow!! very good tone, mellow and warm - although the temperature in the room was very cold, i think 20deg. I was actualy shivering, how can i sit down to play, my fingers could hardly move!! I said thanks as i move to the other section of korea and china pianos. Immeadiately the kind lady started polishing the K5 i just touch.. oops i'm sorry did i stained the PE with my messy finger prints or is it later you have a "stand by piano parade"? didn't mean to criticize anyone.. hehehe
Next time i'll wear gloves and winter jacket there... or do a 5min 5BX???

BTW is Mr Chiu from Robert Piano same as Mr Chiu from Chiu Piano at Thomson plaza?? have i mixed up their name?
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#83057 - 11/11/06 10:43 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
Wzkit Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 1005
Loc: Singapore
Nope, it is not the same Mr. Chiu, but yes, they are related.
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#83058 - 11/11/06 11:13 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
snoopycar,

According to the sales rep in Yamaha's Plaza Singapura showroom, they have 3 "showroom specials" per year. The current one runs to the end of 2006, so the reversion of the C2 to $24K seems odd. On the other hand maybe the specials alternate between uprights and grands....

One of the things that swayed me towards getting a new piano is my experience with used pianos so far. I don't mean to insult anybody, but my level of confidence in local piano techs isn't very high. I'm sure that there are good used pianos out there, but my *very* heavy biz travel schedule doesn't leave me with much time to pick through what's available.

Heh heh...of course, the other thing is that I can't wait! Two weeks into struggling with my hands on the A80 and I see improvement. The desire is back!

As Wzkit says the two Mr Chiu's are related. Brothers I think. They went their separate ways after the Great Piano Dealer War many many years ago.

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#83059 - 11/11/06 11:31 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
mendo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/06
Posts: 65
Loc: Singapore
interesting topic on the chius. now they are even related! one used to deal with the schimmels and now the other one is taking over.
sounds like conspiracy here?

when i ask one chiu, he said he doesn't 'know' the other. when i ask the other one, he said he 'knows' the other one!

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#83060 - 11/11/06 11:34 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
mendo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/06
Posts: 65
Loc: Singapore
hi digitus,

based on your very heavy schedule, would your intended k8 gets lonely?

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#83061 - 11/11/06 11:56 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
mendo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/06
Posts: 65
Loc: Singapore
hi axtremus,

based on the new k8 models, the below are their estimated predecessors (from what i gather on the internet and used piano shops):

k8 1958-1966
ku5D 1969-1971
ku5B 1971-1973
bl71 1973-1980
us50-70 1980-1985
??? 1986-1888
us5-6x 1989-????
us8-9x 1990-????
us7x 1991-????
us6-7xLE 1992-????
bs3c 1994-????
??? 1995-2000
k80 2001-????
k8 2006-

maybe someone can help to fill me in.
from the list, i don't know if kawai is trying its best to confuse consumers? that'll be the day when somebody bought a refurbished k8 thinking it's the new millenium series!

ha ha ....
\:D

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#83062 - 11/11/06 11:59 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
 Quote:
Originally posted by mendo:
based on your very heavy schedule, would your intended k8 gets lonely? [/b]
I'll make up for it when I am home! \:D

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#83063 - 11/12/06 12:27 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
mendo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/06
Posts: 65
Loc: Singapore
hi digitus,

you mentioned you went back to try at the robert's.

did you by any chance compare the k-x and k-xx?
perhaps you could contribute some of your personal experience.

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#83064 - 11/12/06 01:15 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
 Quote:
Originally posted by mendo:
hi axtremus,

based on the new k8 models, the below are their estimated predecessors (from what i gather on the internet and used piano shops):

k8 1958-1966
ku5D 1969-1971
ku5B 1971-1973
bl71 1973-1980
us50-70 1980-1985
??? 1986-1888
us5-6x 1989-????
us8-9x 1990-????
us7x 1991-????
us6-7xLE 1992-????
bs3c 1994-????
??? 1995-2000
k80 2001-????
k8 2006-

maybe someone can help to fill me in.
from the list, i don't know if kawai is trying its best to confuse consumers? that'll be the day when somebody bought a refurbished k8 thinking it's the new millenium series!

ha ha ....
\:D [/b]
Unless he's very un-inform ... \:D (kenna conn)
_________________________
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Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587

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#83065 - 11/12/06 01:21 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
 Quote:
Originally posted by Digitus:
 Quote:
Originally posted by mendo:
based on your very heavy schedule, would your intended k8 gets lonely? [/b]
I'll make up for it when I am home! \:D [/b]
She'll have a companion, mr Roland.... ;\)
_________________________
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587

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#83066 - 11/12/06 01:25 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
Why should there be a piano world war? izzit about $$$$ ? Anything to do with the Eagle Piano Company?? wink wink

A price war would be good .... 3 cheers !!!
_________________________
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587

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#83067 - 11/12/06 04:48 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
Hi Mendo,

The obvious comparison would be between the K8 and the K80E, but I would have had to go to the Centrepoint showroom to do that. It didn't seem to be worth the excursion for a saving of 10%. Besides, I was already in the process of talking myself into buying the K8. \:D

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#83068 - 11/12/06 05:54 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
Oh, and I bought the K8 this afternoon. Delivery will be on 20 Nov after a test in the showroom against the display unit on 18 Nov.

In between today and my last visit to the showroom Mr Chiu had worked on the showroom unit. What had been an impressive upright was now awesome.

The tone is rich and full-bodied. Dynamic range and projection are great. In fact this piano will debunk the myth that you need a bright piano to cut through a mix (if you play pop/jazz in an ensemble). One of the staff (never got his name) played some boogie woogie and the piano was leaping off the floor.

The financial discomfort of the purchase is going to be worth it!

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#83069 - 11/12/06 07:06 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
Wow leow !! Congrats !! When's the open house for us to meddle your new "baby"?? All my pianos added together, still cannot buy the K8 \:\)

Can i dig some info from you? How was the K8 placed at the showroom?
1)Fully carpeted?
2)piano place against wall or another piano?
3)false ceiling?
4)Aircon

It always sounds so nice in the showroom. I wish i can stay in one. I had to use a 1 inch fibre foldable matteress and put behind the soundboard to make peace with my neighbours ..... hehehe


now you can sleep well .....
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Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587

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#83070 - 11/12/06 07:45 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
 Quote:
Originally posted by snoopycar:
Can i dig some info from you? How was the K8 placed at the showroom?
1)Fully carpeted?
2)piano place against wall or another piano?
3)false ceiling?
4)Aircon
[/b]
Oh have you never visited Robert Piano's Millenia Walk showroom? It is a huge space but well-damped so the acoustics are OK. Yes there are carpets, false ceiling (could be acoustically treated but I'm not sure) and of course air-conditioning.

The uprights are placed back-to-back. Actually this arrangement is probably necessary so that some sound energy is reflected back to towards the front of the piano. The K8 has tone release ports behind the music rack and under the keyboard. These help the instrument to project better too.

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#83071 - 11/12/06 08:11 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
Sounds like i'll have to take a trip downtown...
to test drive the K8, but my dream remains. the next one have to be a GP, hiak hiak haik . Do Robert's take trade in?

I have this fear to overcome actually. I very scared the sale person overlook at me while i struggle alone to play a pop piece. Sounds like the Roberts are experts. I'll have to wear a P-plate on my neck to self declare "Adult beginner" playing , stay clear, please stay outside temporary or put on your ipod.

I went to bishan cristofori. There's a expert there. When he "demo", nobody else dare to match up .... all becomes mice \:\) hehehe But the bedok sales are very much better, they let you browse in peace, see the engine, take it for a spin. and so on. am i advertising again?

Do you have this experience? When i go to small piano shops to play-play-test-test with what i have like marriage d'amour or coup de coeur, they all ask if i'm a teacher ??? My jaw drop. Ahh, like this low standard anyhow also can become teacher huh? I think they are joking or insinuating. Maybe what they are trying to say is "what are you waiting for"? Buy one piano quick and get out of here \:\) .... joking lah.
_________________________
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587

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#83072 - 11/12/06 08:46 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
mendo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/06
Posts: 65
Loc: Singapore
already 2 purchases made since start of this thread.

great singapore purchass is on!

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#83073 - 11/12/06 08:57 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
mendo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/06
Posts: 65
Loc: Singapore
hi digitus,

on the comparisons between the older and newer series, i'm not sure why the older ones are costing more. discounted price of k30 was at least 10% more than the promotional price of k3 and the same goes for k60 and k6. i got the quote a few weeks back when the k8 wasn't in yet.
it was the sound quality difference between k30 and k3 that justify the higher price of older one. the actions between the two was that obvious to me.

however i think you mentioned k80 is cheaper compare to k8 now

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#83074 - 11/12/06 08:59 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
mendo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/06
Posts: 65
Loc: Singapore
"the actions between the two was that obvious to me."

sorry, meant to type not obvious to me.

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#83075 - 11/12/06 09:40 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
Hey snoopycar,

If I was you I'd just grow a thicker skin. \:\) Really! After all, you are the one paying money for the piano heh heh.

I haven't touched a piano in 23 years and I can't play for nuts. But there are some basic things I can do myself to assess touch and tone that don't require me to blaze away on the keyboard. Heck, I even brought along some sheet music and stumbled through a couple of pieces.

After (or even before) basic investigation I actually want to have an expert demonstrator show what is possible on the instrument.

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#83076 - 11/12/06 03:33 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
 Quote:
Originally posted by mendo:
on the comparisons between the older and newer series, i'm not sure why the older ones are costing more. discounted price of k30 was at least 10% more than the promotional price of k3 and the same goes for k60 and k6. i got the quote a few weeks back when the k8 wasn't in yet.
it was the sound quality difference between k30 and k3 that justify the higher price of older one. the actions between the two was that obvious to me.

however i think you mentioned k80 is cheaper compare to k8 now [/b]
I can't comment on the pricing of anything other than the K-8 and K80E because I don't have any pricing older than one week! But yes, the price I was quoted for the K80E was less than for the K-8. I assume (maybe wrongly) that the K-8 replaces the K80E at the price point that competes against the Yamaha U5 (and now YUS5).

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#83077 - 11/12/06 03:38 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
 Quote:
Originally posted by snoopycar:
Do Robert's take trade in?
[/b]
Yes they do! \:\)

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#83078 - 11/12/06 06:58 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
Digitus, are you Artemov??

2 purchase? Sorry i got lost. Which is the other recently purchase piano?

Yes, thicker skin is slowly growing - especially if i'm only secretly browsing, kaykay.. shhh, don't tell Roberts i'm coming. Actually, piano "window shopping" is an experience, as far as for me. I used to press a few key to listen for sustain.. too nervious to play anything. My girlfriend says, kalapak, like this how you're going to be a concert pianist? gotta get more "free" exposure, have to break the barrier of inferior complex... bla bla bla.. but come to think of it, it true. So i started "free" out door training by visiting as many shops as possible. Twice, little pretty girl stand beside me to watch... :0 "wow this old uncle can play or what"?? too young, no HP no... hehehe

Digitus, i also started playing in around ~'85
Now, i still have get even grade 3 !!! and still learning scale - just can't get my Dbminor 3 ocatve right yet... more drills tonight. You made the right choice coming back, somemore with a new piano man.... Welcome back to piano world... did you suddenly became romantic? need to express you feelings -- ?? ;]
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Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587

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#83079 - 11/12/06 08:23 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
mendo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/06
Posts: 65
Loc: Singapore
yup, 2 purchases that i counted, juzzjazz & digitus. and both from robert piano.

now artemov is anxious
well, if you can wait, take your time.

like my case when i buy my new dslr camera, it's like should i wait till i get the PERFECT camera that will come out in 6-12 months or can i afford to waste all those good shooting opportunities that i'll miss without THAT camera.

translate that into piano, i could easily learn around 6 short pieces and 1 serious sonata during that time. I've got a permanent job too. i'm not asking you to splurge your live savings. now there are many good pianos at really affordable prices. you won't need a BB or Steinway D to play fur elise. i'm still practising my rach and chopin on my 30yr old kawai and have no problem.
just personnally a slightly, more improved actions compare to my existing one would be a bit more perfect and that's why i'm still in this piano forum.

normally when i buy my camera lens, i go to my regular forum and join a mass order to get really good price. before you shoot me down that this is a piano (ahem , very expensive one leh) that you are buying, let me tell you that lens aren't cheap either. the nikon vr 300mm for my birdshooting is ard us$4.4k. that excess money came when i forgo expensive and overpriced german models and now happily i have 2 nice hobbies, one started when my mum moved in a piano into our home when i was 5 and i hated it, and the other when i was in my teens. i'm still growing older by the day and more hobbies are starting to come into picture. i'm not a professional in either "hobbies", like i said but these hobbies have served me well throughout all these years and will continue to do so.

like good lens, only very "good" piano also got good resale value and that's what most people in this island take note of. fyi some really good, discontinued lens sell for more than its original price in the 2nd hand market. for most general pianos, this concept cannot apply as generally newer models just keep getting better and better while your old piano, if not kept in best of conditions, will have problem in time to come. certain rare europeans may defy this concept and that's also a risk you must be willing to take.

this reselling is useful when you realise your tools no longer meets your requirements and you can upgrade easier without considerable loss of money or time. knowing when to sell is very important here.

since so many people are getting from one shop, may as well meet up to get a good bargain.

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#83080 - 11/12/06 08:45 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
Oh ya, i for got about justjazz, sorry...

Digitus, can reveal how much is the price of the K8, final comsumer figure, not the RSRP. Thanks. or PM me if not so convenient...

Now, back to Monday blues
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Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587

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New Topics - Multiple Forums
Marche Funèbre d'une Marionette
by Minnesota Marty
09/21/14 10:09 AM
Tired and groggy
by PhilipInChina
09/21/14 08:26 AM
Digital piano key noise
by bigsmile
09/21/14 03:15 AM
Hans von Bulow's piano
by phantomFive
09/21/14 01:57 AM
Rubinstein teaching style
by phantomFive
09/21/14 01:52 AM
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