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#836812 - 03/22/02 12:40 AM Deductive Logic
jgoo Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/23/01
Posts: 3974
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
Does anybody know where I can find some really challenging deductive logic puzzles? They're so much fun to solve and I can't find any. Thanks.
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#836813 - 03/22/02 03:00 AM Re: Deductive Logic
Shadorunnr Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 125
Loc: Oklahoma City
Two words; Rubics cube. Really challenging. And if you tell me that you can solve one in under two minutes, I'll pour mustard in your piano. ;\)
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#836814 - 03/22/02 07:15 AM Re: Deductive Logic
aznxk3vi17 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/02
Posts: 701
Loc: Johns Hopkins University
RubiKs cube. Heh.

Really challenging logic puzzles? I'm afraid I don't have any... calculus is enough puzzling for me...

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#836815 - 03/23/02 02:51 AM Re: Deductive Logic
nancyww Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 585
Loc: central oregon

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#836816 - 03/23/02 10:56 PM Re: Deductive Logic
Marquis de Posa Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/02
Posts: 157
Loc: New York
You could pick up a book of Mensa puzzles; there are probably quite a few of those around. Some of the logic problems in these books are easy, but others are quite difficult. Here are a few examples of logic problems you'd find in these books:

1. In an election for class president, John is competing with two other candidates. After the election, the votes were tallied and it was found that each of the three candidates received exactly the same number of votes. However, there are rules that there could only be one president, and to settle this situation the three candidates agreed to draw a name out of a bag to determine who was going to be the winner. John takes a fresh piece of paper, writes one of the other candidates' names on the upper part of the sheet, his name in the middle, and the third candidate's name on the lower part of the sheet. He then tears the sheet of paper into strips so that each strip contains the name of one candidate. He places each of the strips into a bag and volunteers to draw the name of the winner. How does he ensure that he wins the election even though he is very adequately blindfolded?

2. A spy was captured by the enemy and was scheduled to be executed. Before the spy would be killed, he had the chance to make only one statement; if he told the truth, he would be hanged, and if he told a lie, he would be shot. The spy makes his statement, and afterwards, the enemy soldiers debate for hours about what to do and eventually decide to set the spy free. What did the spy say? (A very farfetched and unrealistic situation, but an excellent logic puzzle nonetheless.)

3. You have just left Venice and must travel to Rome by way of a desolate path that wanders through a thick forest. You travel down the path and come to a four-way intersection. There is a signpost that points the way to Rome and also points the way to Venice, but the signpost has been uprooted and is lying on the ground. There is nobody around for miles to ask for directions and you have no map or compass, and the night is cloudy so you are unable to look up into the sky to find the North Star. How do you figure out which path to take?

(Have fun trying to figure out the answers to these.)

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#836817 - 03/23/02 11:20 PM Re: Deductive Logic
Brendan Online   content


Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5319
Loc: McAllen, TX
 Quote:
Originally posted by Marquis de Posa:
3. You have just left Venice and must travel to Rome by way of a desolate path that wanders through a thick forest. You travel down the path and come to a four-way intersection. There is a signpost that points the way to Rome and also points the way to Venice, but the signpost has been uprooted and is lying on the ground. There is nobody around for miles to ask for directions and you have no map or compass, and the night is cloudy so you are unable to look up into the sky to find the North Star. How do you figure out which path to take?
[/b]


Starve to death.

Seriously, though...go the opposite way that the sign is pointing to.
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#836818 - 03/23/02 11:37 PM Re: Deductive Logic
Matt G. Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 3789
Loc: Plainfield, IL
 Quote:
Originally posted by Marquis de Posa:
1. In an election for class president, John is competing with two other candidates. After the election, the votes were tallied and it was found that each of the three candidates received exactly the same number of votes. However, there are rules that there could only be one president, and to settle this situation the three candidates agreed to draw a name out of a bag to determine who was going to be the winner. John takes a fresh piece of paper, writes one of the other candidates' names on the upper part of the sheet, his name in the middle, and the third candidate's name on the lower part of the sheet. He then tears the sheet of paper into strips so that each strip contains the name of one candidate. He places each of the strips into a bag and volunteers to draw the name of the winner. How does he ensure that he wins the election even though he is very adequately blindfolded?[/b]


He feels for the strip with two ripped sides (the middle strip has his own name on it).
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#836819 - 03/24/02 12:18 AM Re: Deductive Logic
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
 Quote:
2. A spy was captured by the enemy and was scheduled to be executed. Before the spy would be killed, he had
the chance to make only one statement; if he told the truth, he would be hanged, and if he told a lie, he would
be shot. The spy makes his statement, and afterwards, the enemy soldiers debate for hours about what to do
and eventually decide to set the spy free. What did the spy say? (A very farfetched and unrealistic situation, but
an excellent logic puzzle nonetheless.)


He says, "What I am about to say is the truth that is: what I have just said is a lie". You're right. Unrealistic. I would shoot the SOB anyway. \:D
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#836820 - 03/24/02 01:21 AM Re: Deductive Logic
Marquis de Posa Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/02
Posts: 157
Loc: New York
 Quote:
Originally posted by Matt G.:


He feels for the strip with two ripped sides (the middle strip has his own name on it).[/b]


Correct.

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#836821 - 03/24/02 01:22 AM Re: Deductive Logic
Marquis de Posa Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/02
Posts: 157
Loc: New York
 Quote:
Originally posted by JBryan:


He says, "What I am about to say is the truth that is: what I have just said is a lie". You're right. Unrealistic. I would shoot the SOB anyway. \:D[/b]


Close. But the answer I was looking for was a sentence of only four words.

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#836822 - 03/24/02 02:50 AM Re: Deductive Logic
jgoo Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/23/01
Posts: 3974
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
Thanks. I'll work on those, plus I'll visit that web site. In the meantime, heres one for the rest of you. Its fairly easy:

A man looks at a picture and says "Brothers and sons, I have none. But the father of this person is my fathers son." Who is he looking at in the picture?
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#836823 - 03/24/02 04:01 AM Re: Deductive Logic
Marquis de Posa Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/02
Posts: 157
Loc: New York
 Quote:
Originally posted by jgoo:
Thanks. I'll work on those, plus I'll visit that web site. In the meantime, heres one for the rest of you. Its fairly easy:

A man looks at a picture and says "Brothers and sons, I have none. But the father of this person is my fathers son." Who is he looking at in the picture?[/b]


He is looking at his daughter. He says he has no brothers, therefore, if the father of the person in the picture is his father's son, he must be the father of the person in the picture since he is the only person that would be eligible to be "his father's son." He has no sons, so the person in the picture is his daughter.

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#836824 - 03/24/02 04:28 AM Re: Deductive Logic
jgoo Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/23/01
Posts: 3974
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Marquis de Posa:


He is looking at his daughter. He says he has no brothers, therefore, if the father of the person in the picture is his father's son, he must be the father of the person in the picture since he is the only person that would be eligible to be "his father's son." He has no sons, so the person in the picture is his daughter.[/b]


NOPE! Thats what I thought the first time that I read it, but its wrong. Read the clues a bit more carefully and think about them, and it will come to you. It took me a while, but I got the correct answer myself, and without looking at it first.
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#836825 - 03/24/02 09:03 AM Re: Deductive Logic
Brendan Online   content


Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5319
Loc: McAllen, TX
 Quote:
Originally posted by jgoo:
"Brothers and sons, I have none. But the father of this person is my fathers son." Who is he looking at in the picture?[/b]


You told us the riddle wrong, jgoo. It's supposed to be "Brothers and sisters, I have none," not "Brothers and sons."

He is looking at a picture of himself.
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#836826 - 03/24/02 09:03 AM Re: Deductive Logic
Brendan Online   content


Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5319
Loc: McAllen, TX
 Quote:
Originally posted by Marquis de Posa:


Close. But the answer I was looking for was a sentence of only four words.[/b]


"I'LL KILL YOU ALL!!!!!!!!"
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#836827 - 03/24/02 09:57 AM Re: Deductive Logic
T2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 341
 Quote:
Originally posted by Brendan:


Starve to death.

Seriously, though...go the opposite way that the sign is pointing to.[/b]


Maybe you could examine the signpost for moss. If there is moss growing on the signpost it will be on the north side. Unless you are in Oregon, in which case it grows on all sides, and you are dead.

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#836828 - 03/24/02 02:14 PM Re: Deductive Logic
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
 Quote:
Originally posted by Marquis de Posa:


Close. But the answer I was looking for was a sentence of only four words.[/b]


"This is a lie" or "I am now lying" or something to that effect.

"I will kill you" should get him hung since it is a true statement of his intentions no matter whether it is actually possible. In other words, it may be false but that does not make it a lie.
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#836829 - 03/24/02 02:55 PM Re: Deductive Logic
mrenaud Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 1314
Loc: Switzerland
 Quote:
Originally posted by Marquis de Posa:
3. You have just left Venice and must travel to Rome by way of a desolate path that wanders through a thick forest. You travel down the path and come to a four-way intersection. There is a signpost that points the way to Rome and also points the way to Venice, but the signpost has been uprooted and is lying on the ground. There is nobody around for miles to ask for directions and you have no map or compass, and the night is cloudy so you are unable to look up into the sky to find the North Star. How do you figure out which path to take?[/b]


I assume that the signs to Venice and to Rome are attached to the same post. In that case I'd just plant the signpost into the ground with the sign to Venice pointing to where I came from. The sign to Rome should now correctly point to Rome.
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#836830 - 03/24/02 03:04 PM Re: Deductive Logic
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
 Quote:
Originally posted by mrenaud:


I assume that the signs to Venice and to Rome are attached to the same post. In that case I'd just plant the signpost into the ground with the sign to Venice pointing to where I came from. The sign to Rome should now correctly point to Rome.[/b]


I actually thought of this but can it really be that easy? I assumed there was something I was not understanding correctly about the problem. It just does not seem like a very difficult problem if this is correct.
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#836831 - 03/24/02 03:22 PM Re: Deductive Logic
Palindrome Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/01
Posts: 3915
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
The guy who was (or was not) going to be shot might have said: "I will be released". If true, he gets to leave, if false, he's shot. Either way, the problem is solved. This is the only thing I can think of that would cause hours of discussion on the part of his captors.

I agree with the solutions of the other problems as given.
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#836832 - 03/24/02 04:22 PM Re: Deductive Logic
jgoo Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/23/01
Posts: 3974
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Brendan:


You told us the riddle wrong, jgoo. It's supposed to be "Brothers and sisters, I have none," not "Brothers and sons."

He is looking at a picture of himself.[/b]


You got the answer correct. You've obviously seen the riddle before, if you knew that I told it wrong. I didn't realize when I wrote it. Oh well.
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#836833 - 03/24/02 04:38 PM Re: Deductive Logic
Marquis de Posa Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/02
Posts: 157
Loc: New York
 Quote:
Originally posted by mrenaud:


I assume that the signs to Venice and to Rome are attached to the same post. In that case I'd just plant the signpost into the ground with the sign to Venice pointing to where I came from. The sign to Rome should now correctly point to Rome.[/b]


Correct.

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#836834 - 03/24/02 08:27 PM Re: Deductive Logic
Steve Miller Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 3290
Loc: Yorba Linda, CA
Three men check in to a hotel room for the night, the cost of which is $30 for the night. Each man chips in $10, and up to the room they go.

Upon a change in managers, it is discovered that the men paid too much for their room - the actual cost of that room for a night is $25. The new manager sends the bellhop up to the room with 5 one dollar bills to refund the men their money.

The bellhop, being an enterprising young lad, decides to refund only $3, as trying to divide up $5 among three men would be too difficult. He pockets $2 for himself.

The three men are satisfied - each has now only paid $9 for their night in the hotel. But as 3 men x $9 each = $27, and the bellhop kept $2 for a total of $29, where did the other dollar go?
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#836835 - 03/24/02 10:19 PM Re: Deductive Logic
nancyww Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 585
Loc: central oregon
 Quote:
Originally posted by Marquis de Posa:

2. A spy was captured by the enemy and was scheduled to be executed. Before the spy would be killed, he had the chance to make only one statement; if he told the truth, he would be hanged, and if he told a lie, he would be shot. The spy makes his statement, and afterwards, the enemy soldiers debate for hours about what to do and eventually decide to set the spy free. What did the spy say? (A very farfetched and unrealistic situation, but an excellent logic puzzle nonetheless.)
(Have fun trying to figure out the answers to these.)[/b]


"I will be shot"

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#836836 - 03/24/02 10:42 PM Re: Deductive Logic
Marquis de Posa Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/02
Posts: 157
Loc: New York
 Quote:
Originally posted by nancyww:


"I will be shot"[/b]


Correct.

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#836837 - 03/24/02 10:44 PM Re: Deductive Logic
nancyww Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 585
Loc: central oregon
 Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Miller:
Three men check in to a hotel room for the night, the cost of which is $30 for the night. Each man chips in $10, and up to the room they go.

Upon a change in managers, it is discovered that the men paid too much for their room - the actual cost of that room for a night is $25. The new manager sends the bellhop up to the room with 5 one dollar bills to refund the men their money.

The bellhop, being an enterprising young lad, decides to refund only $3, as trying to divide up $5 among three men would be too difficult. He pockets $2 for himself.

The three men are satisfied - each has now only paid $9 for their night in the hotel. But as 3 men x $9 each = $27, and the bellhop kept $2 for a total of $29, where did the other dollar go?[/b]


The other dollar didn't go anywhere.

You start out with $30 ($10 from each man).

You end up with $30, too. The manager has $25 (the cost of the hotel room), the men have $3 (their refund of $1 each), the bellhop has the $2 (that he pocketed).

Yes, each man did end up paying $9 for the room, or $27 total for the 3 of them. That would be the $25 that went to the hotel manager and the $2 that the bellhop kept.

The confusion is caused by taking the $27 that the men paid and trying to add the $2 that the bellhop kept to make $29. Actually, you should subtract the $2 which would give you the $25 that the second manager ended up with for the room.

Gee, or maybe the confusion is in my explanation. Hope this makes sense. \:\)

[ March 24, 2002: Message edited by: nancyww ]

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#836838 - 03/25/02 01:58 AM Re: Deductive Logic
Shadorunnr Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 125
Loc: Oklahoma City
Here is an old puzzle...................There once was a racehorse that won great fame, what do you think was the horses name.
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#836839 - 03/25/02 03:01 PM Re: Deductive Logic
Derick Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 3290
Loc: New York
Here's one...

Every morning a man leaves his apartment on the 10th floor, enters the elevator and rides it down to the lobby. Every evening, upon returning home from work, the same man takes the elevator from the lobby to the 5th floor and then walks the remaining 5 flights of stairs. Why?

Derick
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#836840 - 03/25/02 03:16 PM Re: Deductive Logic
mrenaud Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 1314
Loc: Switzerland
 Quote:
Originally posted by Derick:
Here's one...

Every morning a man leaves his apartment on the 10th floor, enters the elevator and rides it down to the lobby. Every evening, upon returning home from work, the same man takes the elevator from the lobby to the 5th floor and then walks the remaining 5 flights of stairs. Why?

Derick[/b]


Maybe because he's too short to reach the button to the 10th floor?
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#836841 - 03/25/02 03:21 PM Re: Deductive Logic
DT Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 1478
Loc: Illinois
I always thought there was the added proviso that he rode up to the 5th floor and walked the remainder unless it was raining.
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