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Originally posted by The 89th Key:
Again, when I say meaningless its more of the "we came from dust, we turn into dust, nothing more" aspect. I just wouldn't see what the point of living is. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. The ashes also symbolize death and so remind us of our mortality. Thus when the priest uses his thumb to sign one of the faithful with the ashes, he says, "Remember, man, that thou art dust and unto dust thou shalt return," which is modeled after God's address to Adam (Genesis 3:19; cf. Job 34:15, Psalms 90:3, 104:29, Ecclesiastes 3:20). This also echoes the words at a burial, "Ashes to ashes; dust to dust," which is based on God's words to Adam in Genesis 3 and Abraham's confession, "I am nothing but dust and ashes" (Genesis 18:27). It is thus a reminder of our mortality. I close my eyes only for a moment and the moments gone all my dreams pass before my eyes a curiosity dust in the wind all we are dust in the wind Same old song just a drop of water in the endless sea all we do crumbles to the ground though we refuse to see dust in the wind Now, don´t hang on nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky it slips away and all your money won`t another minute buy Dust in the wind all we are dust in the wind dust in the wind dust in the wind - Kansas 1) Even if we came from dust and turn back to dust upon our death our lives do have meaning. If you cannot find meaning in life withthout resorting to supernatural forces then I say you are not looking hard enough. 2) We do come from dust. Star dust. We are the universe. We are children of the stars. We were born of star dust. That is, the remants of stars long dead which have exploded their elemental material to the vastness of space to be recycled again and again ad infinitum. Life and specifically, intelligent life is nothing more than the universe having evolved to a point that it can sit back in a lazy boy recliner (or kneelers at the pews) and contemplate itself. There is only one god. It is everything.
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Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
with lots of bass guitar, drums, and, of course, cow bell. I got a fever! And the only prescription...is more cowbell!  
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Originally posted by MusicMagellan:
89th, don't ever change. You are never boring, and that really is a high compliment. you are really a complimentary type of guy MusicMagellan... so nice... 
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few
love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
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Originally posted by MusicMagellan: You have sinned! Now go confess!
Actually that is true. 89th happens to be a lovable guy in some perverse sort of way.
89th, don't ever change. You are never boring, and that really is a high compliment. Thanks M&M, or is it eminem? I guess I'm an acquired taste for some... 
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Originally posted by markjpcs:
There is only one god. It is everything. i so agree
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few
love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
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Originally posted by reblder: posted by the 89th key:
[b]But you see we aren't Adam and Eve. We (the human race) are what they became after they "fell". I think we are basically very intelligent animals, in the sense that we need to survive, and without order, we'd kill each other for something without thinking twice. I see the human race as better off with civilization but just look at primitive tribes and their actions to see how "sinful" or natural the human race really is.
So the challenge to us all is then not to identify with thoughts, feelings, desires, even as they come and go. [/b]Ok now I see. You think that our human nature is actually not what we ARE but rather what we could be? Sort of a Nirvana-ish state of mind? That's a respectable position.
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ny1911,
The particular pastor, as well as the other priests and profile of the parishoners can make a huge difference in the suitability of the church. We shopped for a new church several years ago and found one considerably more to our liking. It involves about a half hour travel, compared to about five minutes for the original one, but so what?
(watch this space)
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apple,
only when I really mean it ... and I think you know that.
(watch this space)
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Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Suffice it to say that an atheist derives meaning in their life in a different way than you or I might. Thats a good post cindy. I wasn't saying meaningless lives are bad, I just dont see what the point of living would be. Perhaps someone can explain how they have meaning in their life if they come from dust and turn into dust when they die. Sure we have families and friends that can make life enjoyable, but the concordant emotions that accompany such feelings of happiness almost seem to undermine the entire theory that we came from a cell or a piece of random energy (that randomly appeared out of nowhere).
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Those who live as atheists are living in sin, and their lives are an offence to God.
"A print of the score has everything you need to know about the music, except the essential."
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Originally posted by The 89th Key:
Again, when I say meaningless its more of the "we came from dust, we turn into dust, nothing more" aspect. I just wouldn't see what the point of living is. Not to beat a dead horse (and I AM playing devil's advocate here).... There are many for whom life itself needs no "point." Rather than questioning or contemplating "the meaning of life," they simply live and enjoy the life they have. Perhaps there is peace in that simplicity.
Sacred cows make the best hamburger. - Clemens
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Originally posted by WynnBear: NY,
I too was raised RC. And I felt your angst about the Church, its political positions, its pronouncements, its made-up liturgies, its cover-ups, etc., etc.
For me, the answer was the Episcopal Church.
I'd post a link, but Kreisler beat me to it. [/b]I have to hand it to you, WynnBear -- the Episcopalians have much better "made up liturgies" than the Catholics do! And its pronouncements-- going back to Lambeth in 1933 that changed a 2000 year old prohibition against artificial contraception (see the Didache on this one). Then its change to accomodate the ordination of women... Now, of course, with Gene Robinson, they have changed another age old tradition and now openly ordaining homosexuals... plus ca change... I guess it works politically, but what is left of the Christian imperatives? Episcopalian.org website (not ECUSA, but rather the ACCUSER of ECUSA) Regardless of what you think about these thing, it certainly seems to be no longer the Church of Henry VIII or Cranmer or Elizabeth I(let alone the Church of the Apostles)!  Steve-- who is not throwing stones, but only pointing out certain facts...
Estonically yours,
Ivorythumper
"Man without mysticism is a monster"
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So I suggest equating "no religion" to "the religion of no name" trivializes the fundamentally different mindset of many who profess no religion. Everybody worships something, God or mammon. No matter what they may call it....
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Originally posted by Jolly: So I suggest equating "no religion" to "the religion of no name" trivializes the fundamentally different mindset of many who profess no religion.
No matter what they may call it.... Absolutely, I agree
"A print of the score has everything you need to know about the music, except the essential."
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Matt G. wrote: "There are many for whom life itself needs no "point." Rather than questioning or contemplating "the meaning of life," they simply live and enjoy the life they have. Perhaps there is peace in that simplicity."
Ding ding ding ding! We have a winner!
markb--The Count of Casio
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89th: I got a fever!
And the only prescription...is more cowbell! Man, you're good! Christopher Walken, SNL. I didn't think anyone would get the reference. Right back atcha with this . . . "I'm Bruce Dickinson. Yes, *the* Bruce Dickinson. I put my pants on one leg at a time. And once I've got my pants on, I go out and make gold records."
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Mark said: 1) Even if we came from dust and turn back to dust upon our death our lives do have meaning. If you cannot find meaning in life withthout resorting to supernatural forces then I say you are not looking hard enough.
2) We do come from dust. Star dust. We are the universe. We are children of the stars. We were born of star dust. That is, the remants of stars long dead which have exploded their elemental material to the vastness of space to be recycled again and again ad infinitum. Life and specifically, intelligent life is nothing more than the universe having evolved to a point that it can sit back in a lazy boy recliner (or kneelers at the pews) and contemplate itself.
There is only one god. It is everything. So you could say we are analogous to the critical component of a self-aware Artificial Intelligence device? That is, we are part of "God" and yet we are able to separate our minds to observe God/everything? It's an interesting point of view, but if you hold that point of view...what on earth would keep you from killing yourself? We are NOTHING in the scheme of things. There is no point to us, AT ALL. Right? (I'm not trying to be argumentative, rather curious to a dissenting perspective.)
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Originally posted by ny1911:
Sure, aspects of the church and congregation will vary from church to church, but I thought that every RC church celebrates "the 3rd Sunday in Ordinary time" on the same week, and the readings and prayer will be the same. The primary difference will be the content of the homily. If you accept and believe that the Mass is a celebration of the Blessed Sacrament then absolutely no two Masses can be alike. The service may appear prescribed but the celebration and Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist is of itself unique to each individual Mass.
"The older the fiddle, the sweeter the music"~ Augustus McCrae
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89th,
To many, the relationships with family and friends lie at the core of life's meaning. I'd guess similar "meaning" would be felt by virtually any social/gregarious mammal, such as wolves/dogs.
The self-survival drive produces the most fundamental notion of meaning. For social animals, whose self-survival is tied to group survival, it's Natural for such basic meaning to extend to relationships.
(watch this space)
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