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#852830 - 09/10/03 05:09 PM Bush again?
zorro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 271
Loc: Mesa, AZ
Not wanting to start an "mhr-looking" thread, I've had this question in my head for some time:

If the date of the reelection for president was now, today; would you give Bush a second chance?

This is assuming he got the US out of the war, without spending more after the 87 billions...
zorro
_________________________
"I love Beethoven, especially the poems."
Ringo Starr

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#852831 - 09/10/03 05:44 PM Re: Bush again?
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
Yes, especially considering his potential rivals.
_________________________
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels

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#852832 - 09/10/03 05:54 PM Re: Bush again?
jodi Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 6959
Loc: The Evergreen State (WA)
Ooh, I LIKE that smiley. Frank need to add it down there.

\:\) Jodi

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#852833 - 09/10/03 07:51 PM Re: Bush again?
Tony C Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 95
I don't think so, I think that this country has had enough crap from this administration, if there is a chance for reelection, I am pretty sure Bush/Cheney et al won't stand any chance.

Half of the population didn't' vote in 2000 (that's how we got ourselves into the current situation for being silent), given the second chance, most likely people (especially those didn't vote last time) would choose a candidate who knows how to run the country, protect us from the REAL threat.

CHANGE IS GOOD!

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#852834 - 09/10/03 08:01 PM Re: Bush again?
pdolce Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/03
Posts: 478
Loc: CA.
I wouldn't vote for Bush if I had a gun to my head!!!

pdolce
_________________________
But, I played it perfectly at home!!

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#852835 - 09/10/03 08:22 PM Re: Bush again?
ChickGrand Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 3231
Loc: Midwest U.S.
No.

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#852836 - 09/10/03 08:28 PM Re: Bush again?
.rvaga* Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 2046
Loc: Portland, Oregon
 Quote:
If the date of the reelection for president was now, today; would you give Bush a second chance?

This is assuming he got the US out of the war, without spending more after the 87 billions...

zorro
[/b]
Second "chance?"

"...got the US out"

There is a question in the screwed-up syntax, tense, and thought process, I'm sure.

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#852837 - 09/10/03 11:06 PM Re: Bush again?
jkeene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 701
Loc: Central Florida
Yes, Bush again.

Here's why, item by item, as compared to the likely opposition.

As a country, the USA needs to get the following things done during the next president's term:

One, continue the economic recovery from the circumstances of 2000-2001. You can argue the primary cause, but there were many of them in there. We just need to get out of it, more than we already have. I'd give this one to Bush, even though he spends a bit more than I think is appropriate. Only possible member of the opposition seems like Dean, but at best that's a tie.

Two, kill more terrorists, where they live. Bush gets it, and shows no sign of losing grasp of it. Lieberman seems to get it. Clark gets it, but I worry he'd be too cautious in execution.

Three, establish a hundred year alliance with a large power in Asia. China, India, Indonesia and others are continuing to develop as countries and our trade with them is growing. But using the island nations, or South Korea, as an ally to project force to ward off disturbances isn't going to cut it. We need one of the big two, China or India, or perhaps a coalition centered on Indonesia. I think Bush could handle this job, and I'd like to see him work with India on it. Clark could probably handle building an alliance around Indonesia, but that would not be our strongest position. The other candidates couldn't handle the job.

Four, appoint some Supreme Court Justices. I'd like some more O'Connors. Scalia can be okay, but he had a more human tone in his earlier years than recent. I'd like Lieberman for this task. Bush could do it, if he'd stick to the Texas moderates of his gubernatorial days. The others will sink us.

Five, return science funding to more appropriate levels. I almost didn't put this in, but it's made a noticeable contribution to our current way of life today. Dean would do it, but shorting the military. Bush will do it, emphasizing the military research enough, but shorting the rest.

Right now I'm scoring it for Bush, and don't foresee a change.

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#852838 - 09/10/03 11:29 PM Re: Bush again?
Palindrome Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/01
Posts: 3915
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
ANY election* is a choice between two different candidates. (And what is the sound of one hand clapping?) The "Would you vote to re-elect..." question is only half a question. I'm sure the Democrats could find somebody that would distress the electorate enough so that Bush would win.

But practically speaking, with or without an opponent to give a reference point, the poll numbers on re-election should certainly be giving the Bush team some sleepless nights.

Oh, and jkeene - Bush will not be seriously nominating anyone to the Supreme Court, even if one of the incumbents should involuntarily leave. The Democrats threw down their marker on Estrada, and held the line for two years on that judicial nomination. The White House got the message. The only person they would nominate would be someone to consolidate their political base, and that would be just as likely to solidify the liberals.

*Having said that, I'm thinking that the California recall may be an exception.
_________________________
There is no end of learning. -Robert Schumann Rules for Young Musicians

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#852839 - 09/10/03 11:58 PM Re: Bush again?
Tony C Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 95
And here are some excerpts form NewsMax.com http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/9/7/181331.shtml.
Sounds like the Bush Team do really have something to worry about:


Less than half (45%) of the respondents said they rated his job performance good or excellent, while a majority (54%) said it was fair or poor.

A majority (52%) said itís time for someone new in the White House, while just two in five (40%) said the president deserves to be re-elected. Last month, 45% said re-election was in order, and 48% said it was time for someone new.

Just two in five (40%) said they would choose Bush if the election were held today, while 47% said they would elect a Democratic candidate.

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#852840 - 09/11/03 12:09 AM Re: Bush again?
Steve Miller Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 3290
Loc: Yorba Linda, CA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Palindrome:
*Having said that, I'm thinking that the California recall may be an exception. [/b]
Funny you should say that. The recall has pretty much boiled down to a repeat of the last gubernatorial election. With Uberroth gone, there are only 3 serious candidates left.

Two of them appear to be the same guy in a different suit - Davis and Bustamante. I'll count them as one Democrat.

Two Republicans; McClintock and Schwarzneggar.

I can't imagine that the Republican faithful are going to go for Schwarzneggar. The orgies and lurid interviews are bad enough, but I don't think even California is ready for a governor who has naked pictures of himself circulating on the Internet. He's definitely not your father's Republican, and he sure as hell isn't mine.

McClintock, then. This guy is even farther to the right than Simon was, and appears in fact be just to the right of Atilla-the-Hun. Even though I give him points for being at least competent (unlike Simon), and even though his politics would be much favored by several of the august contributors to the Piano Forum, he is never gonna fly in California. Simon couldn't get it done a year ago, and McClintock doesn't stand a chance this time - especially with Schwarzneggar siphoning off some of the Republican vote.

That means the winner will be..... BustaDavis!

Remember folks you heard it first on the Piano Forum.
_________________________
Defender of the Landfill Piano

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#852841 - 09/11/03 12:14 AM Re: Bush again?
Steve Miller Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 3290
Loc: Yorba Linda, CA
Oh, and as far as whether I would vote to re-elect Bush?

Put me down as a no.
_________________________
Defender of the Landfill Piano

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#852842 - 09/11/03 07:02 AM Re: Bush again?
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
Tony C,

Your link does not work.
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#852843 - 09/11/03 10:35 AM Re: Bush again?
Ron Alexander Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 1292
Loc: North Carolina
TonyC wrote:

would choose a candidate who knows how to run the country, protect us from the REAL threat.[/b]

What is your definition of the REAL threat? Is a faltering economy a greater threat than terrorist strikes here in the US?

I would vote for Bush with reservation, the Dems have yet to put forth a candidate that will not tax and spend us into further chaos.

Regards,
Ron
_________________________
-----------------
Ron Alexander
Piano Tuner-Technician

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#852844 - 09/11/03 10:40 AM Re: Bush again?
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
 Quote:
Originally posted by jkeene:
I'd like some more O'Connors.[/b]
Dear God I hope not! I think O'Connor is one of the worst we've had. Not necessarily for her positions (some of which I disagree with) but her reasoning and defense of them. Her opinions are some of the most ill-reasoned things I've ever read.
_________________________
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels

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#852845 - 09/11/03 10:44 AM Re: Bush again?
Nina Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 6467
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
I would not vote for Bush again. (Didn't vote for him the first time, either.) However, IF I understand your hypothetical, which is would Bush get re-elected if the Iraq war were over and we were not an additional $87B in debt, I think he probably would be re-elected in that scenario. (Pardon the grammar all :p )

I still wouldn't vote for him, though!

Steve, where's Issa in all this? We're not hearing anything about him outside of California (at least, once he decided not to run...)

Nina

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#852846 - 09/11/03 11:35 AM Re: Bush again?
Steve Miller Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 3290
Loc: Yorba Linda, CA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Nina:
Steve, where's Issa in all this? We're not hearing anything about him outside of California (at least, once he decided not to run...)

Nina [/b]
Issa dropped out early on, literally in tears on television over the whole thing. $1+ million down the tubes and no one was interested in his being governor.

He has not been heard from since. Maybe he learned something, no?
_________________________
Defender of the Landfill Piano

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#852847 - 09/11/03 12:03 PM Re: Bush again?
Steve Miller Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 3290
Loc: Yorba Linda, CA
 Quote:
Originally posted by rjalex:
What is your definition of the REAL threat? Is a faltering economy a greater threat than terrorist strikes here in the US?
Ron [/b]
Let me take a shot at this one:

The real threat is the suspension of constitutional protections in the name of a war that is not a war at all, and will have no end.

The real threat is the alienation of the global community.

The real threat is a president who shoots first and aims later. "Axis of evil" isn't the half of it.

The real threat is an action in Iraq that we can not win, and shows every sign of being another Vietnam. There is no exit strategy - never was.

The real threat is 20 guys with box cutters and airplane tickets, and a military that is completely clueless as to how to stop them from doing what they aim to do. Box cutters will beat tanks every time.
_________________________
Defender of the Landfill Piano

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#852848 - 09/11/03 12:05 PM Re: Bush again?
bcarey Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 3378
Loc: North Carolina
Didn't vote for him the first time. Will not vote for him, for a second term.

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#852849 - 09/11/03 01:08 PM Re: Bush again?
Tony C Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 95
 Quote:
Originally posted by JBryan:
Tony C,

Your link does not work. [/b]
Sorry, try this:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/9/7/181331.shtml

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#852850 - 09/11/03 04:00 PM Re: Bush again?
.rvaga* Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 2046
Loc: Portland, Oregon
 Quote:
Tony C:
Just two in five (40%) said they would choose Bush if the election were held today, while 47% said they would elect a Democratic candidate. [/b]
Sure, without thinking, I'm sure countless millions simply vote party line.

Or, "vote Democratic" to get rid of the war-monger Bush.

How many thought the same thing, and ended up with Johnson. . . ?

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#852851 - 09/11/03 05:45 PM Re: Bush again?
jkeene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 701
Loc: Central Florida
 Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Miller:
Let me take a shot at this one:
[/b]
Let me put some replies to this:


 Quote:

The real threat is the suspension of constitutional protections in the name of a war that is not a war at all, and will have no end.
[/b]
The Patriot Act generally expires in December 2005. Some restrictions have already been placed on it (HR2799). I'd not like to see another Patriot Act, particularly one without sunset provisions, but this is far less onerous than the WWII internment camps.
 Quote:

The real threat is the alienation of the global community.
[/b]
Britain, Spain, Poland, a number of the Eastern European countries, India and Kuwait do not seem to be too alienated.
 Quote:

The real threat is a president who shoots first and aims later. "Axis of evil" isn't the half of it.
[/b]
Then what is?
 Quote:

The real threat is an action in Iraq that we can not win, and shows every sign of being another Vietnam. There is no exit strategy - never was.
[/b]
The exit strategy existed, the planning to implement it was sketchy, flawed, and victim of some wishful thinking. It's getting fixed, in an overdue fashion.
 Quote:

The real threat is 20 guys with box cutters and airplane tickets, and a military that is completely clueless as to how to stop them from doing what they aim to do. Box cutters will beat tanks every time.
[/b]
And strong cultures with hope for all citizens beat the box cutter terrorists every time. We use tanks and similar assets to defend ourselves and our cultural allies by destroying those states who aid and abet the terrorists.

Failure to take the war to the enemy's heart is the real threat.

Jeff

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#852852 - 09/11/03 08:30 PM Re: Bush again?
Ron Alexander Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 1292
Loc: North Carolina
Jeff wrote:

Failure to take the war to the enemy's heart is the real threat.[/b]

Jeff IMHO you hit the nail on it's head. I hope it is just the warming of the political climate for the 2004 election, but my fear is Americans don't have the guts to endure and sacrifice (when and if it comes to that) to win the War on Terrorism. Will it take another attack like 9-11
or worse, to make us realize we cannot win the hearts and minds of those who hate us??? The only thing a terrorist understands and respects is strength. They will not stop until they dominate the world. We cannot afford to rest until we have rid the world of them.

I'm beginning to believe we are returning to our sleep, and dreaming those who believe in radical Islam are basically nice people who will embrace us if we can only sit down and talk and come to understand each other. Two kinds of people, brainwashed - but on opposite ends of the spectrum.

Regards,
Ron
_________________________
-----------------
Ron Alexander
Piano Tuner-Technician

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#852853 - 09/12/03 12:19 AM Re: Bush again?
Steve Miller Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 3290
Loc: Yorba Linda, CA
 Quote:
Originally posted by jkeene:
Failure to take the war to the enemy's heart is the real threat. Jeff [/b]
First you have to find them, Jeff.
_________________________
Defender of the Landfill Piano

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#852854 - 09/12/03 12:31 AM Re: Bush again?
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
 Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Miller:
 Quote:
Originally posted by jkeene:
Failure to take the war to the enemy's heart is the real threat. Jeff [/b]
First you have to find them, Jeff. [/b]
Or....dig your way into the center of them and lure them all to you. Oh wait..... that's what we're doing!
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#852855 - 09/12/03 12:35 AM Re: Bush again?
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
Well, there is something to be said for inserting the military of the most powerful nation in history right smack in the middle of one of the most volatile and important regions of the world without everyone around them raising a fuss. \:D (I know, shhhh...don't tell...)
_________________________
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels

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#852856 - 09/12/03 12:35 AM Re: Bush again?
Brendan Offline


Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5317
Loc: McAllen, TX
 Quote:
Originally posted by Larry:
Or....dig your way into the center of them and lure them all to you. Oh wait..... that's what we're doing! [/b]
And we're also sustaining casualties!
_________________________
http://www.BrendanKinsella.com

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#852857 - 09/12/03 12:36 AM Re: Bush again?
Tony Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/24/02
Posts: 151
Loc: Houston
Didn't vote for him the first time and certainly won't this time.

We saw what he did as Texas governor to the Texas economy, services, and quality of life. He's doing the same thing as president. This is the fox and the hen house story.

By the way, you may not know there is no state income tax in Texas. This alone, tells the story of the advantage to the Texas mega rich when fedral taxes for higher incomes are reduced.

In choosing the next president, I hope it will be someone who has been successful at something. No more oil baron failure, failed investor , or failed ball team owner who left his investors holding the bag when he took the profits and invested in other enterprizes.

Consider his background for foreign relations: the son of an American president who has had almost unlimited resources at his disposal at fifty something had been "abroad" twice in his life and both times were to Mexico! Remarkable world curiousity, don't you think?


If he couldn't make it as a business man with the family money and connections at his disposal, there was never any reason to believe he could run the world's largest business!

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#852858 - 09/12/03 12:38 AM Re: Bush again?
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
Hey Tony, I suggest you don't vote for GWB next time. Fair enough? :p
_________________________
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels

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#852859 - 09/12/03 12:46 AM Re: Bush again?
Tony Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/24/02
Posts: 151
Loc: Houston
Great idea! Don't think I will, but then, who counts votes, anyway?

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