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#853192 - 07/31/03 04:00 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
bcarey Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 3378
Loc: North Carolina
 Quote:
And, as far as I can hear, "Here are some rules we all should live by," and "Let me cut off your testicles," sound exactly the same when sung by the "Piano Foum Liberal Girls (and the Men Who Love Them) Choir."
Lost anything from your anatomy lately, TomK? :p

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Piano & Music Accessories
#853193 - 07/31/03 05:14 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
John Andrew Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 3041
Loc: Southern California
 Quote:
Originally posted by netizen:

Seriously though, I think both Jolly and LP should stay.
[/b]
Since we have not heard one word from LP since she decided to leave so that Jolly would not destroy the mood in the room or hijack threads any more, it seems safe to assume she meant what she said and was not just seeking pats on the back like others. She always did mean what she said, it seems. We should not be surprised she did here as well.

BTW, with the return of TomK, isn't he the one who was outed as the conservative sock puppet?

Have at him Jolly. We know how you disdain such moral turpitide.

I'll be waiting for your trolling to begin again.
_________________________
You can be disappointed, but you cannot walk away. This fight has just begun. Senator John Edwards

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#853194 - 07/31/03 05:46 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
TomK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 2611
Dear John Andrew,

I have been called and readily admit to being a rapist, an alcoholic, a jerk. evil, etc. All fine.

The only thing I have never admitted to is being a sockpuppet.

That, I am not. TomK is TomK, nothing more or less. Nothing other or either. Nothing given or taken. Nothing plus or minus. I'm TomK. And you John Andrew, are a fool, nothing more or less...

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#853195 - 07/31/03 06:05 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14036
Loc: Louisiana
Dear Mr. Andrews,

As far as I know, TomK is not a sockpuppet.

If he is, I would say the same to him, as I said to LP.

In your own personal case, we have several members here from the Southern California area who I'm sure would be happy to refer you to a good psychologist, or maybe even to a real doctor(psychiatrist). Such anger and fixation is not good for you.

Have a nice day, John. \:\)
_________________________
www.coffee-room.com

Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#853196 - 07/31/03 06:49 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
bcarey Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 3378
Loc: North Carolina
 Quote:
I have been called and readily admit to being a rapist, an alcoholic, a jerk. evil, etc. All fine.
Assuming you are all the above that you do "readily admit to etc. All fine", and assuming that this was sarcasim or something said "tongue in cheek' in forumese, just who are you, TomK?

Us forumers really want to know.

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#853197 - 07/31/03 07:06 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
TomK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 2611
 Quote:
just who are you, TomK?[/b]
A NY Steinway owner. And every post I write should reflect the complexity, the color, the boldness, the meekness, the verve, the nastiness, the happiness, the ugliness, the emptiness, the fullness and the soulfulness of my playing.

I'm a piano lover, nothing more. Really. In this Forum, I'm just playing my piano for you all--on line.

Grasp that point bcarey, and you will understand the essence of the Piano Forum. We are all playing our tunes here for one another, aren't we?

Our posts meld and join, are dissonent and are resonante together.

You, and me and all the others here are singing a song of love of pianos for the ages. And as for who I am, I'm just a singer in this grand song that Frank created. That's all.

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#853198 - 07/31/03 07:50 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
KlavierBauer Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 3773
Loc: Boulder, Colorado
:p who wrote that for you Tom? It was great!


...really, it was


KB
_________________________
Outlive Yourself - Become an Organ Donor

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#853199 - 07/31/03 07:56 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
kluurs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 3739
Loc: Chicago
I'm not sure I can handle what he smokes...but it is grand...

Ken

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#853200 - 07/31/03 08:08 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
John Andrew Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 3041
Loc: Southern California
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:
Dear Mr. Andrews,

As far as I know, TomK is not a sockpuppet.

If he is, I would say the same to him, as I said to LP.
[/b]
Several others, of course, have said he is. And yet, while you badgered LP to come clean, you say nothing to a fellow conservative.

Why am I not surprised?

It never was about who LP is/was. It was just that she would not bow and scrape properly and was not intimidated by your bluster.

Can you say "hypocrite" Jolly?
_________________________
You can be disappointed, but you cannot walk away. This fight has just begun. Senator John Edwards

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#853201 - 07/31/03 08:29 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
KlavierBauer Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 3773
Loc: Boulder, Colorado
Oh please....

I might not agree with Jolly on everything, but I certainly don't think he divides the world into liberal and conservative.

How did LP get the victim tag again? I forget...

I agreed with a lot of things that LP had to say, don't get me wrong. And Jolly certainly wasn't without fault in this whole thing. But LP came riding into every EVERY debate, whether it was war related or not, and turned it into something having to do with Bush, and Iraq.

Like I said, some good points were made, but they always seemed to me that they were way out of context.
So please don't turn this into Jolly beating all of us idiots into submission, and the one intillect ballsy enough finally makes his/her way out of the fray.

KlavierBauer
_________________________
Outlive Yourself - Become an Organ Donor

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#853202 - 07/31/03 09:07 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
 Quote:
Originally posted by John Andrew:
Several others, of course, have said he is. And yet, while you badgered LP to come clean, you say nothing to a fellow conservative.

[/b]
Name these "others" please. I remember someone one day reflecting that he/she thought that he/she heard that TomK went by another name on this forum. That came as a complete surprise to me and, I am sure, several others. I had never heard this before and the person that said this was not all that certain about it. Name any other person who has stated this with any sort of conviction. Do it now or henceforth cease and desist from this rumor mongering.

If anyone on this board has good reason to believe that TomK goes by some other name on this board please come forward now or forever hold your peace.

(Is this starting to sound like a marriage ceremony Tom?)
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#853203 - 07/31/03 09:44 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
David Burton Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 1757
Loc: Coxsackie, New York
...seems awful flamboyant of you to ask but,

stay
_________________________
David Burton's Blog
http://dpbmss041010.blogspot.com/

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#853204 - 08/01/03 03:42 AM Re: Stay? or Go?
benedict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 2519
Loc: European Union
I had the impression there were two LP.

One was the Cassandra of the Coffee Room.
An Old Testament prophet predicting all sort of calamities and whose imprecations sometimes hurt the teeth.

Somebody whose Christian ideal was so pure that the whole world was a needle and we were camels.

Somebody like Savonarole in 15th Renaissance Florence.

Savonarole burnt books then got burnt as a good friend of mine once wrote.

There was another LP who was developing a fine sense of humor and who often expressed point of views with an extreme intelligence and sensitivity.
And I felt this LP would have liked to have an open trusting relationship to Jolly, JBryan and Larry. IMHO, it would have made the world a better place.

I would like this LP to stay and share with us.

The Cassandra/Savonarole, well, that one can go in another forum where people like to tell how it is and why those who think different have not understood or are selfish, love money and violence and will not go to Heaven despite their prayers and the money they give to their Church.

Imprecation whether liberal or conservative tends to get on one's nerves. I am not sure it has any therapeutic effect on the imprecator himself.

About the sockpuppetry subject, if LP apologized for the confusion he has caused and decides to stick to one personality, I propose we let him go in peace and stop putting his nose into it when he says "Good day gentlemen".

You rotten,vicious (liberal) sockpuppet !

And I would like the honorable conservative members of this assembly to be more courteous with John Andrew who has the courage to say things that, I am sorry to say, I agree mostly with.

No need to speak about psychiatrists, no need to call him Mister. Do not forget as Christians, you have a duty to teach us compassion (not only compassion for your fellow conservatives, but compassion for those you do not understand and that you reject as aliens).

How do you like this magnificent preaching ?
Great,no ? Admit it has got class.

\:D \:D

And stop bullying, stop imprecating.
Just do like I do.
Good boys \:D \:D \:D
_________________________
Benedict

Top
#853205 - 08/01/03 04:18 AM Re: Stay? or Go?
benedict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 2519
Loc: European Union
TomK,

I wanted to tell you, my good friend, that I feel so relieved that you have stopped your cyber-pogrom on Ariel.

It really made me sick.

I am sure it made you sick too.

You are a true poet and "fantaisiste" and you add a lot of crazy wisdom here. Some of us would tend to take themselves seriously.

With you around, this is impossible.

I love taking myself seriously.

I may have been a peacock in another life (it is just an image Larry, Jolly, Gryphon \:D )
_________________________
Benedict

Top
#853206 - 08/01/03 06:19 AM Re: Stay? or Go?
johnmoonlight Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 2384
Loc: Lancaster, pa
 Quote:
Originally posted by KlavierBauer:
Oh please....

I might not agree with Jolly on everything, but I certainly don't think he divides the world into liberal and conservative.

How did LP get the victim tag again? I forget...

I agreed with a lot of things that LP had to say, don't get me wrong. And Jolly certainly wasn't without fault in this whole thing. But LP came riding into every EVERY debate, whether it was war related or not, and turned it into something having to do with Bush, and Iraq.

Like I said, some good points were made, but they always seemed to me that they were way out of context.
So please don't turn this into Jolly beating all of us idiots into submission, and the one intillect ballsy enough finally makes his/her way out of the fray.

KlavierBauer [/b]
Well said.
_________________________
While one who sings with his tongue on fire
Gargles in the rat race choir
Bent out of shape from society's pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the hole
That he's in.

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#853207 - 08/01/03 12:12 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
John Andrew Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 3041
Loc: Southern California
 Quote:
Originally posted by KlavierBauer:
Oh please....

I might not agree with Jolly on everything, but I certainly don't think he divides the world into liberal and conservative.

How did LP get the victim tag again? I forget...

I agreed with a lot of things that LP had to say, don't get me wrong. And Jolly certainly wasn't without fault in this whole thing. But LP came riding into every EVERY debate, whether it was war related or not, and turned it into something having to do with Bush, and Iraq.

Like I said, some good points were made, but they always seemed to me that they were way out of context.
So please don't turn this into Jolly beating all of us idiots into submission, and the one intillect ballsy enough finally makes his/her way out of the fray.

KlavierBauer [/b]
And KB -- are you going to say the same sort of thing about Jolly? Gonna ask him to apologize for starting this, keeping it going and making it the nastyu fight it was?

Gonna ask him why he posted a thread asking for a lot of complements and then said he never planned to leave, just wanted the complements and that he is never going to change his ways and we all have to live with that?

Hell, I am still waiting for Jolly to apologize for posting the anti-semetic tripe a couple of months ago. But he never did then and I doubt he ever will.

In the past month or so, LP laid off discussing the war and talked about other issues. Jolly trolled her in every one of those threads, over and over again. In fact, the last thread she posted on, the one that brought this all to a head, was about the way the medical profession is run.

LP never attacked Jolly back. Never got angry. Never got nasty and spiteful. Only Jolly did. Yes, LP was a victim, and it is people like you who allow this to happen.

LP was right. Thread after thread was turned by Jolly into nothing but discussions about LP, not about the topic at hand. This was not done by LP. But she has now stopped it. Finally.

Jolly did not stop it. He would have continued to have destroyed thread after thread. And yet, you criticize LP.

Why your attack on LP? Why no attack on Jolly -- the instigator and the one who did it all?
_________________________
You can be disappointed, but you cannot walk away. This fight has just begun. Senator John Edwards

Top
#853208 - 08/01/03 12:26 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
 Quote:
Originally posted by John Andrew:
In the past month or so, LP laid off discussing the war and talked about other issues. Jolly trolled her in every one of those threads, over and over again. In fact, the last thread she posted on, the one that brought this all to a head, was about the way the medical profession is run.

[/b]
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=001510

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=001472

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=001459

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=001433

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=001409

These are just the threads LP has started in the past month. I will not take time to wade through all the other threads to find the replies by LP that take a thread off into the Bush bashing anti-war tom tom. So, you were saying?
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

Top
#853209 - 08/01/03 12:28 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
benedict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 2519
Loc: European Union
John Andrew,

I agree 100 % with you.

But don't you think that LP's attacks on the medical profession was extremely disrespectful ?

And that his ongoing war with GW Bush hijacked this Coffee Room.

Not to say that he had it coming, of course. But violence does beget violence most times.

This does not excuse his harassment on sockpuppetry which seems like an excuse for constantly attacking him so that the respect we could have for him was undermined.


I wish both Jolly and LP stopped their violence (agressive in one case, passive-agressive in the other) and used their intelligence and humor to make music on this forum.

I would find it sad if Jolly stayed because so many people cried for him and LP would leave because nobody was on his side.

But if he comes back and decides to resume his agressions without regard to people's feelings, then, I would not object to his being treated in the same way.

But without harassment.

Capisce, Popeye ?

\:D
_________________________
Benedict

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#853210 - 08/01/03 12:36 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
kluurs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 3739
Loc: Chicago
Benedict,

nicely expressed.

Ken

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#853211 - 08/01/03 01:24 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
Benedict,

I do not dispute LP's right to post whatever he/she wants. My post was in response to John Andrew's claim that LP had not made such posts in the last month. Clearly that is not the case.

As far as Lp is concerned, I have no opinion one way or another on whether he/she stays or leaves. From my point of view LP can come here and post this stuff three times a day if that is what he/she wants. Just don't try to represent to me that LP is not being in any way tendentious or provocative. It is okay with me if LP is tendentious or provocative just don't try to say otherwise because it just ain't so.

Jolly is also free to express his opinion on the sockpuppetry of LP just as John Andrew is free to engage in his little crusade against Jolly. If misrepresentations or falsehoods are made, however, I can be counted on to identify them as such.

Capisce?
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

Top
#853212 - 08/01/03 01:33 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
Take a poll Benedict. Count the words. The liberals post as often, and are more verbacious.

They are whiny because they are on the losing side of the arguments. I personally would love to be a liberal but could never justify it economically, knowing that money must be earned before it is doled out - you know like the old saying "a penny saved is a penny earned".

As to the forum, I've seen for greater vituperation coming from those you see as abused and silenced who must like to debate, argue and engage in these discussions... Why else would they be coming back repeatedly to this conservative sinkhole? Civic duty?
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#853213 - 08/01/03 02:01 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
justme Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 4418
Loc: Englewood, FL
I personally would like to see LazyPianist come back. I admit it, I don't care if he/she was a sock puppet and a liberal.
If some of his/her posts were distorted or out of context I think I'm smart enough to figure that out. I disagreed with most of what he/she said. But he/she made me think.
And is he/she truly a sockpuppet if they admit to the masquerade? And if this forum wasn't so darn intolerant maybe he/she wouldn't have felt compelled to become a sock puppet.
And this forum as we all know can be extremely intolerant.
Come back, LP, some of us truly miss you.
_________________________
justme

http://toosad4words.blogspot.com/

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#853214 - 08/01/03 02:01 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
Same thing expressed in different ways. Whether one is called a worm or a hypocrite or an alcholic; crippling words are upsetting for those who hear them. What is odd to me is that this 'fight' is divided by partisan ideology. I suppose the coffee room is a little microcosm of what goes on in political life. John Andrew doesn't decry Ariel or L.P's tactics. I guess I would staunchly defend the conservatives.

I find it interesting. If you were a conservative you would not be 'apalled' by my nonsentimental way of looking at things. You'd 'applaud' them. Note how those two words are almost anagrams.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

Top
#853215 - 08/01/03 02:02 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
Apple said:
I personally would love to be a liberal but could never justify it economically, knowing that money must be earned before it is doled out [/b]


Absolutely wonderful post, Apple.

And to John Andrews - LP hasn't posted in a while. Jolly therefore isn't "attacking" LP. The only one who is keeping the whole thing going is you. Shut up.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#853216 - 08/01/03 02:07 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
benedict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 2519
Loc: European Union
I propose we move on and and remain courteous and friendly with one another.

I hope LP comes back and that his vituperations and imprecations are met either with humour or with compassion for such a serious phobia but that his person is respected.

Just so that all sides feel equally respected and supported.

This Coffee Room looks like a baseball match with cheerleaders and referees,rough players and a few vicious blows from time to time.

I deleted the posts where I was getting too serious about the baseball match.

Please forgive me for making the thread a bit weird. But I think it is no use going on in an argument.

In a way, there has been a vicious circle or a chain reaction : LP's phobia of Bush has caused a phobia of LP.

As far as I am concerned, I have a phobia of intolerance. \:D

I mean other people's intolerance.
My own intolerance is not a problem. Thank you.

\:\)
_________________________
Benedict

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#853217 - 08/01/03 02:09 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
KlavierBauer Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 3773
Loc: Boulder, Colorado
Mr. Andrews...

Apparently you don't read, because I did call Jolly on his actions.
Every responsible party has been called on their faults over and over. That was the reason for my post. Even in the post you were responding to I made it clear that I don't love or hate Jolly or LP. I like them both just fine.
My point was an obvious one...
Don't make LP out ot be a victim when the obvious tilt of his/her posts is to rile Jolly up.

My dog is very well behaved, but sort of has O.C.D. with fetch. He LOVES to chase things.
My Niece is two, and when she is visiting, she insists on taking his ball and holding it over her head. She means no harm by it, and obviously doesn't want to get herself hurt. But I have explained to her many times that waving that ball around over her head is a signal for the dog to jump up and snatch the ball. She understands this, but is 2 and has to push the limits.
When she comes crying to me because the dog jumped on her I am not going to hit the dog. And I'm not going to hit her. But I will certainly explain to her that her choices caused Attila to do what is natural to him.

The point is... LP knows exactly what buttons to push (as does Jolly). And the fact that people only see Jolly pushing the buttons seems to indicate that people forget he is responding to something, not starting something.
No I don't agree with the way he treats people sometimes.
Why don't I get bit? I don't wave the ball over my head just out of reach...

KlavierBauer
_________________________
Outlive Yourself - Become an Organ Donor

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#853218 - 08/01/03 02:13 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
Your intolerance is not a problem for me either, Benedict. ;\) \:D

Seriously, Lazy Pianist is welcome to come back and post the same tirades as before as far as I am concerned. I will do as always and address the substance and will not attack him/her personally although I have been (wrongly) accused of doing so. What others do is their look out but those who woul conflate me with all others who disagree with LP are guilty of the same thing they often accuse conservatives of doing. Categorizing and pigeon holing.
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

Top
#853219 - 08/01/03 02:17 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
benedict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 2519
Loc: European Union
Larry,

I did not know being liberal was about the way you spend money.

I never read anything in Pique, Ariel, John Andrew or LP about spending money.
I saw a lot about respect for human dignity, ethics and human rights.

Would you point the posts where they mention the spending of money ?

Being a foreigner is a real liability. I do not really know much about party politics.

I know about human rights though and I know about the pursuit of happiness.

They are what is best in European and North American culture. IMHO.

Larry, could I ask you a favour ?
Please stop this gang mentality :
"Great post, Apple".
"The words of wisdom, Jolly".
"TomK, I wish I had said such beautiful things"

This place is all about teenage Montagus and Capulets.

And everybody has a drink in the end.

\:D \:D
_________________________
Benedict

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#853220 - 08/01/03 02:17 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
Diarmuid2 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/02
Posts: 871
Loc: London
The coffee room is absolutely the worst forum here. The atmosphere is dreadfully poisonous. I look in occasionally but invariably leave quickly. I'd rather talk about music with people who actually play the piano and appreciate it.

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#853221 - 08/01/03 02:24 PM Re: Stay? or Go?
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
Welcome to the liberal spin machine. Buy Hillary's book to get a great handle on the liberal's monopoly on the subjective terms that ensure a populace's dedication to socialism. Don't get me wrong; socialism works in some places and is perfect for some times but hopefully will not now and never here.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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Questions about Chopin Nocturne Op. 27 No. 2 in D Flat Minor
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