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#85947 - 05/31/08 07:00 PM 2007 Yahama P22 vs 2003 Wurlitzer Baby Grand
paperkite Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 32
Hello. I am an adult beginner, looking for a piano for the home and am in need of advice. After two months of shopping, I have narrowed down my choices to the following:

1). 2003 Wurlitzer Baby Grand. 5'4" Like new, barely used but kept tuned. Sounded fine to me (but then, I'm a beginner). To buy, move and tune it, the price is $4200. No warranty.

2). 2007 Yamaha P22. 45" studio. Used for 1 year at the local university. The price to buy, move and tune it is $4700. 10 year warranty with trade in value of $4195 within 10 years.

Both of these choices are at the VERY top of our budget.

So, if you were a beginner, which would you choose and why? I appreciate all advice.

Thank you for your time.

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#85948 - 05/31/08 08:26 PM Re: 2007 Yahama P22 vs 2003 Wurlitzer Baby Grand
guest1013 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 1239
Did you like one more than another? You will be listening and playing it, what may matter most once you are satisfied on condition and price, is how you like it.

How much practicing a day/or week do you anticipate? The P22 has a reputation for being a workhorse but then most people recommend a grand for greater dynamic control and faster repetitions but at the beginner level you might not notice...

What are the model number and serial number on the Wurlitzer? I am not seeing a 5'4" piano on the Gibson website-- could it be a discontinued length?

My impression from reading PW is that the Wurlitzer is considered OK not great grand, a starter grand, and the P22 is much better regarded as an upright, but the fact that it was used at the university makes me wonder what is its true condition? Better to check the serial number, too. I think the price may possibly be a little high for being used but I am no expert, just a PW reader and my comment is based on reading PW...You might possibly find a U1 for just another thousand more according to some posters' experience in their local markets...of course if you are in a small market you might not...so much depends on your market and whether there is much competition. I don't mean to suggest that you spend another thousand but if you notice a difference between a new u1 and the P22 then you'd want to consider whether the P22 is worth it to you.

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#85949 - 05/31/08 08:58 PM Re: 2007 Yahama P22 vs 2003 Wurlitzer Baby Grand
asd123321 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 689
That price for a used P22 seems real bad. Some have reported a new Kawai K3 near that price which would be much better.

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#85950 - 05/31/08 09:23 PM Re: 2007 Yahama P22 vs 2003 Wurlitzer Baby Grand
PianoPro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 314
Loc: Iowa
I have sold both instruments, and I can tell you without hesitation that the P22 is a better piano. If you don't like the price, I'd suggest offering that price for a brand new one. the price is not bad, but you might just get them to go for delivering one that is factory fresh. These pianos are going up in cost at a truly alarming rate! \:\(

Good luck to you!
_________________________
Dennis C.
Piano Store Operator,
Former District Manager,
20 Year Industry Experience

"Tell the truth, honor God, and make money!"

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#85951 - 05/31/08 10:01 PM Re: 2007 Yahama P22 vs 2003 Wurlitzer Baby Grand
MVB Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 89
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Just wanted to say that I bought my brand new P22 for $4700 just a couple months ago. Therefore, I would consider this amount too high for a used one. I actually preferred the sound and feel of the P22 over the U1 that they had in the showroom but no question that the P22 is better than the Wurlitzer. I've been taking lessons on a Wurlitzer and it's only made me appreciate what I have at home all that much more. Ultimately, it should be what sounds and feels good to you.
_________________________
MVB

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#85952 - 05/31/08 11:53 PM Re: 2007 Yahama P22 vs 2003 Wurlitzer Baby Grand
paperkite Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 32
Thanks for the advice. \:\)

Guest1013, to my ears, the P22 and the Wurliter Baby Grand sounded about the same. I've heard it's better to learn on a grand as it builds stronger hand and finger control but maybe that's such a small benefit it's not worth the cost in quality.

Also, because I am new, I think I'm attracted to the Wurlitzer because it's big and when new was purchased for $7500 -so, there's a deep discount.
Plus, the bigger piano has the illusion of more piano for the dollar. ;\)

That's a great question about the model and the Serial Number. I forgot to get that information when I was visiting today but will be sure to find out if I decide to pursue that piano.

MVB, did $4700 include tax, transport and the first tuning?

As for the Yamaha price I was quoted ($4195 + $200 transport + $50 tuning when home + $260 sales tax = ~$4700)... Unfortunately, I live in a ONE piano shop city. That means that if someone wants a new piano in my city, they *have* to go the Yamaha dealer or pay extra to travel, shop and transport in a piano from another city.

I think I might could bargain with the Yamaha dealer, however (especially on the transport charge of $200 and because the cabinet is dinged a bit), but it's her market, really. I think she will bargain or not bargain based only on her sales report for the month and how fast she needs the money... not because she thinks I'll go elsewhere. \:\(

Meanwhile, I've been shopping the ads for used pianos but I run into a wealth of spinets and 1930 Kimbals for sale and not much else within my city. When I shop nearby cities, I run into the same transport problems I faced with shopping for new pianos. For example, that Wurlitzer Baby Grand I mentioned is located in the closest neighboring city of any size. It's listed for $3500. But it costs $550 to move it to my city! (Then add another $100 for a technician to check it before I buy, plus $100 to tune it and the sum is ~$4300). So, I'm not sure what I can do to get out of these steep prices. :\

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#85953 - 06/01/08 12:17 AM Re: 2007 Yahama P22 vs 2003 Wurlitzer Baby Grand
guest1013 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 1239
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/1/20192.html These posters may shed more light on the Wurlitzer but you may see that the change in ownership and construction over the years can be confusing. Knowing the particular model and actual length may be of significance.

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#85954 - 06/01/08 04:32 PM Re: 2007 Yahama P22 vs 2003 Wurlitzer Baby Grand
Craigen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 1815
Loc: West Coast
In 2003 Wurlitzer grands were made for Baldwin by either ASC (Chinese) or Young Chang (Korean or Chinese), can't remember.

The P22 is basically a "demo" new piano with a factory warranty. At $4700 including tax and delivery, this is a good price for a good solid piano.

In spite of this, I might opt for the grand for the additional tone and volume, but most importantly for the advantage of the grand piano repetition sensitivity.
_________________________
Piano Technician, member Piano Technicians Guild.

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#85955 - 06/01/08 06:53 PM Re: 2007 Yahama P22 vs 2003 Wurlitzer Baby Grand
MVB Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 89
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Paperkite;

The $4700 was before taxes but included delivery, 2 tunings and a 10 year warranty. Whatever you choose, the best of luck!
_________________________
MVB

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#85956 - 06/02/08 10:03 PM Re: 2007 Yahama P22 vs 2003 Wurlitzer Baby Grand
paperkite Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 32
After much debate in our house, we decided to take the sage advice from these forums and so, the winner is....

The Yamaha!


We had pretty much decided on it but when I went back to the Yamaha dealer, I mentioned we were also considering a used Wurlitzer Baby Grand. Oh, boy did the saleswoman ever have an opinion about that! Truly, the Soup Nazi has nothing on her. ;\) So strong was her opinion, I thought she was going to throw me out her store for considering such an item. Then, as it turned out, a piano technician was in the store and came over to strongly discourage me from the Wurlizer, also. So, there you have it.

Thanks to everyone here! I have read a lot of very insightful information from this forum. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge and help coach me into a good deal.

Best Wishes,
Laura

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#85957 - 06/03/08 11:32 AM Re: 2007 Yahama P22 vs 2003 Wurlitzer Baby Grand
PianoPro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 314
Loc: Iowa
 Quote:
Originally posted by Craigen:
In 2003 Wurlitzer grands were made for Baldwin by either ASC (Chinese) or Young Chang (Korean or Chinese), can't remember.[/b]
Actually By Sammick in S. Korea.
_________________________
Dennis C.
Piano Store Operator,
Former District Manager,
20 Year Industry Experience

"Tell the truth, honor God, and make money!"

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#85958 - 06/03/08 05:22 PM Re: 2007 Yahama P22 vs 2003 Wurlitzer Baby Grand
Christopher P. Smith Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 1306
Loc: Timonium, MD
check out the Yamaha T118, you should be able to get a price lower than that of the P22.
_________________________
Representing Yamaha, Story and Clark, and other fine instruments
Menchey Music Service
Associate Member of PTG
Serving Central Pennsylvania and the Greater Baltimore Area

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