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#869104 - 07/06/03 01:43 AM Re: The Founding Fathers Weren't Christian
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5484
gee, larry, you must be feeling better! \:D
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now in paperback:


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#869105 - 07/06/03 04:16 AM Re: The Founding Fathers Weren't Christian
Ariel Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/07/03
Posts: 3028
Loc: NE
Larry,

Many thanks for your in-depth research in responding. I just spotted this addition. I am looking forward to studying both posts in detail. I hasten to say, however, that I am WAY too uninformed about US history to judge or evaluate much of anything pertinent except language itself and its development. Most of what I really know about national history I have learned at this web-site. (Did someone say this is dedicated to pianos??)

I can see you went to a ton of trouble writing and putting this together and I too hope this is a sign that you are feeling better - you did not respond to my P.S. asking...Everything the same? Any news?

Ariel

P.S. (different) Ahem, not to be petty, but about KOTH...As I said earlier, it doesn't go by words or page length, but by sheer number of posts. Of course, we could always all get together and try to see how many of us could fit in a pay phone booth as another way of making the Guiness (or Piano World) Book of World Records. If there WERE any more phone booths, that is...Perhaps instead how many could fit in an AT&T cell-phone kiosk at the Mall?
_________________________
If this is coffee, bring me tea. If this is tea, bring me coffee.
~Abraham Lincoln~

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#869106 - 07/06/03 04:29 AM Re: The Founding Fathers Weren't Christian
Ariel Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/07/03
Posts: 3028
Loc: NE
Nina posted earlier:
 Quote:
Gad! I avoided the KOTH thread the first time because it was just way too much of a commitment for me. But now that it's a holiday, I had the time to go through it... I think I need to go take a nap. [/b]
It's late and I'm tired (and I guess my eyes are blurring) but I just wanted to "share" a "special" moment (I LOATHE buzz-words)...As I read your post above, I misread the last sentence at first as "...I think I need to go take a crap" (let's see how the filter handles that one). It made perfect sense as a reaction, but I admit I was surprised at you for a moment, Nina! \:D

Ariel
_________________________
If this is coffee, bring me tea. If this is tea, bring me coffee.
~Abraham Lincoln~

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#869107 - 07/06/03 12:18 PM Re: The Founding Fathers Weren't Christian
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
Ok..... I put in a lot of hard work proving our Founding Fathers were Christian, and that this is a Christian Nation. I'm not going to let you revisionists get away with ignoring me just because things got tough for you all of a sudden.... ;\)

Get in here and stand your ground, or wave the white flag!..... \:D
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#869108 - 07/06/03 12:33 PM Re: The Founding Fathers Weren't Christian
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
 Quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:

P.S. (different) Ahem, not to be petty, but about KOTH...As I said earlier, it doesn't go by words or page length, but by sheer number of posts. Of course, we could always all get together and try to see how many of us could fit in a pay phone booth as another way of making the Guiness (or Piano World) Book of World Records. If there WERE any more phone booths, that is...Perhaps instead how many could fit in an AT&T cell-phone kiosk at the Mall?[/b]
Or we could discuss the question you asked. I didn't write such a long post thinking about outdoing the Koth thread. I wrote it because I had something to say. You asked the question - I have answered it. I just figured the death throws of those who don't like dealing with these facts would generate a ton of posts.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#869109 - 07/06/03 01:05 PM Re: The Founding Fathers Weren't Christian
jodi Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 6959
Loc: The Evergreen State (WA)
Gads, Larry. I think you have too much time on your hands. You feeling any better? (just bumping this to the top in case anybody else who has anything to say about the original question would like to jump in here...)

\:\) Jodi

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#869110 - 07/06/03 04:26 PM Re: The Founding Fathers Weren't Christian
shantinik Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/23/01
Posts: 4271
Loc: Olympia, WA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Larry:
Ok..... I put in a lot of hard work proving our Founding Fathers were Christian, and that this is a Christian Nation. I'm not going to let you revisionists get away with ignoring me just because things got tough for you all of a sudden.... ;\)

Get in here and stand your ground, or wave the white flag!..... \:D [/b]
You've already been answered and at length.

(p.s. There wasn't a single Bible Society in the United States before 1808, and the Baltimore Bible Society was founded in 1810.)

Isn't it great to live in a the first country in the history of the western world with a Constitution, written by Christians, and who, BECAUSE they were Christian, left God and Jesus out of it?
\:D
(I'm done. Going to other threads.)

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#869111 - 07/06/03 07:27 PM Re: The Founding Fathers Weren't Christian
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
 Quote:
Originally posted by shantinik:

You've already been answered and at length.
[/b]

No, I've had a bunch of revisionist history tossed out at me. But you have not addressed a single fact, because until I wrote my post, the only thing available in the thread was your revisionist history.

(p.s. There wasn't a single Bible Society in the United States before 1808, and the Baltimore Bible Society was founded in 1810.)[/b]

What does that have to do with anything? Tell me when one of the Founding Fathers started a "Deist Society" - or an "Islam Society". Then I'll give your revisionist history some weight.

Isn't it great to live in a the first country in the history of the western world with a Constitution, written by Christians, and who, BECAUSE they were Christian, left God and Jesus out of it?
\:D [/b]

I know it will be hard for you Shantinik. Learning the truth means you have to let go of your preconceived notions. But the above statement shows a complete ignorance of the truth, and a total lack of understanding of the people of the day, and their history. Why not open your eyes and study instead of trying to force fit things into your views. They are, quite simply..... wrong.


(I'm done. Going to other threads.) [/b]

I take this as a white flag. That's sad.... You can't refute anything in my post with any facts, so rather than learn, you choose to run. You were quite vocal as long as you were able to put your revisionist history forth without challenge, but now you want to "go on to other threads"....

The facts are simple - None of the Founding Fathers were Deists. All of them professed at one level or another, their faith in Christianity. The "wall of separation of Church and State" that you like to talk about doesn't exist as you describe it, yet thanks to years of revisionists attacking the foundations of our country, we have few people left willing or able to hear the facts. They do as you have just done - they push their agenda, and when challenged, they close their minds, and run.
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Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#869112 - 07/06/03 07:47 PM Re: The Founding Fathers Weren't Christian
Ariel Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/07/03
Posts: 3028
Loc: NE
Hi, Larry,

I'm afraid I've put you and Shantinik in an unfair position, and I apologize. Although I was joking about the KOTH thread, I really did feel this was a discussion you could have contributed to (and are), but were unfortunately going through medical hell when it was raging...

Shantinik has worked hard arguing with Jolly and others in this LOOOOOG thread (which has really meandered into all kinds of sub-themes, many of neither happy nor related to the original topic). And I am guessing that he feels "talked out" about it - not that he is waving a flag of any color.

If you are up to it, you could browse through the thread itself, with special attention to his and Renauda's and Jolly's well thought-out posts. If you post not only your own research and thoughts, but specific replies to his points, perhaps then Shantinik will feel like replying as he really has said most everything several times. I think he is kind of burnt out, and you should pardon the metaphor, but I invited you to the party pretty late. (Of course you could not have "attended" earlier or you would have been here from the start, anyhow.)

As for me, I am not enough of a scholar to reply and besides right now I am kind of tied up with that other "party" I didn't realize I had started. I began this thread after accidently bumping into this provocative contention on-line (with supporting quotes) - I realize that's not exactly in-depth scholarship - and thought it would make an interesting point of departure for discussion. Especially among those who know a hell of lot more about American History than me!If you look at the original notes accompanying my thread starting, yuo will see I said as much!

Ariel

I hope no news is good news about the other stuff...
_________________________
If this is coffee, bring me tea. If this is tea, bring me coffee.
~Abraham Lincoln~

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#869113 - 07/06/03 07:47 PM Re: The Founding Fathers Weren't Christian
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14051
Loc: Louisiana
Gee, it's good to have you back, Larry! \:D
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Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#869114 - 07/06/03 07:51 PM Re: The Founding Fathers Weren't Christian
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
 Quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:

I'm afraid I've put you and Shantinik in an unfair position, and I apologize. ....Shantinik has worked hard arguing with Jolly and others in this LOOOOOG thread (which has really meandered into all kinds of sub-themes, many of neither happy nor related to the original theme). And I am guessing that he feels "talked out" about it -not that he is waving a flag of any color.

If you post not only your own research and thoughts, but specific replies to his points, perhaps then Shantinik will feel like replying as he really has said most everything several times. I think he is kind of burnt out[/b]
No offense intended Ariel, but please let Shantinik speak for himself.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#869115 - 07/06/03 07:53 PM Re: The Founding Fathers Weren't Christian
Ariel Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/07/03
Posts: 3028
Loc: NE
No offense taken. I guess I just felt guilty.

A. \:\)
_________________________
If this is coffee, bring me tea. If this is tea, bring me coffee.
~Abraham Lincoln~

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