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Topic Options
#876288 - 05/15/03 10:07 PM Something that really troubles me
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello everybody,

I have a problem that REALLY troubles me. I guess I'm kind of weird, but I'm getting a little crazy I think. Anyway, everytime I eat meat I get this feeling that the animal, although dead, can still feel. That it still can feel pain, etc. but doesn't react. Do we know? Is it proven that once it's dead it's DEAD and it goes to heaven and the body is just left behind? Or does it die but somehow still live "inside?"

This is not a joke of some kind. I am fully serious. I feel almost sick when I eat meat because I don't want to harm the animal. It's sick how we murder so many snimals every day for our pleasure, and I feel so sorry for them. They do, after all, feel pain just like we do and I am so concerned that maybe they suffer when we eat them.

I don't know what to say, but I'm just wondering if anyone can comfort me on this issue. It is really troubling me.

Thank you.

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Piano & Music Accessories
#876289 - 05/15/03 10:11 PM Re: Something that really troubles me
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
Did you know that vegetables feel pain?
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#876290 - 05/15/03 10:12 PM Re: Something that really troubles me
Anonymous
Unregistered


 Quote:
Originally posted by JBryan:
Did you know that vegetables feel pain?[/b]
Not funny.

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#876291 - 05/15/03 10:19 PM Re: Something that really troubles me
ClassicalVegan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 156
Loc: B.C. Canada
I agree. But anyway Bb, if it bothers you a lot, I can vouch for the safety and rewards of a
veg(etari)an diet! As for the actual issue of your post, I don't think there is any physical way that the dead animals can feel people eating them - after the pain of being slaughtered , they are at peace! But I know what you mean, it is kind of a creepy thought.
_________________________
Allie

"Sing praise to the God of Jacob! Start the music and beat the tambourines; play pleasant music on the harps and the lyres." Psalm 81:1-2.

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#876292 - 05/15/03 10:36 PM Re: Something that really troubles me
CrashTest Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/01
Posts: 4111
Trust me, that steak you are eating can feel no more pain. Don't become vegetarian, since the drawbacks are obvious. As to the slaughering of animals, it is the way nature intended it to be. Sure, now we have all of these produced and fancy foods, but way back then, it was either eat a tree (Or our modern vegetarian) or dine on some tasty meat. We are on top of the food chain, might as well take full advantage of it. Animals are not creatures such as ourselves, no matter how much the media or very sensitive people may say otherwise. Eat meat, and eat more meat. Nothing as tasty. ;\) \:D

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#876293 - 05/15/03 11:16 PM Re: Something that really troubles me
jgoo Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/23/01
Posts: 3974
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
I've often wondered the same thing myself. Can the dead actually still feel physical sensations such as pain, etc? But then again, while your physical body may feel it, your soul will at least no longer be there, so it is then just an empty body that would be feeling the pain. But, you never know. I guess that we will have to wait to find out for ouselves when our own time comes.
_________________________
For off-topic discussion, please feel free to visit www.coffee-room.com

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#876294 - 05/15/03 11:21 PM Re: Something that really troubles me
Brendan Offline


Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5325
Loc: McAllen, TX
 Quote:
Originally posted by JBryan:
Did you know that vegetables feel pain?[/b]
How true. They are still alive and developing as we eat them, unlike slabs of meat.
_________________________
http://www.BrendanKinsella.com

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#876295 - 05/15/03 11:22 PM Re: Something that really troubles me
Ariel Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/07/03
Posts: 3028
Loc: NE
BeePhlatMinor,

On the one hand, I want to find concrete, convincing "proofs" that your fears are unjustified. As I used to tell my kids when they worried and worried about something that didn't make sense from the outside, "the danger isn't real but the fear is".

However, as a former clinician - not to mention being a mom and fellow human being (not[/b] former!) - I know it can be risky to focus on merely trying to talk somebody out of their phobias (phobia = extreme irrational fear) or other signs of emotional unrest.

I can tell by your post, Internet and all, that you are very distressed, so I want to talk about that, if it's OK. I wonder if this dread you are experiencing came on suddenly (recently) or gradually,and if you can connect it to any other changes in your life.

Did anything happen recently that might be considered disturbing: a death in the family (or divorce), somebody becoming unemployed, or anything on-going which is maybe getting to you? Say, an abusive member of your family? Even just walking down the road and seeing a mutilated animal that was hit by a car?

Have you ever had other thoughts which disturbed you? Something you just kept mulling over and couldn't get out of your mind? Or is there anything else you are scared about right now? Even just being afraid you are going crazy, is pretty scary. How's your sleep? Nightmares?

Worrying about the kind of thing you described does not[/b] mean "you're crazy". But it does sound like something is going on besides the issue you "think you're worried about" - whether or not dead animals can feel the pain of having their bodies eaten.

Sometimes with this kind of problem, if you get your focus off one fear, another one can just pop up! It's called "free-floating anxiety" - kind of like a flame looking for a piece of dry wood.

Anyhow, I would feel better knowing you had somebody to talk to in person, or at least on the phone - not [/b] somebody your own age. Is there an adult you trust at school or at church that you might ask to talk to privately? It will take courage and maybe feeling foolish, but, hey - nobody ever died of embarrassment.

On the other hand, plenty of people have been harmed, by holding things inside through fear of being embarrassed. I know somebody, for example, who died in her early twenties of uterine cancer because she was too embarrassed to have a doctor examine her "down there".

There is something very comforting about reaching out on the Internet in all its anonymity, especially if you worry about something you find embarrassing to talk about. As a matter of fact, I am one of the few people, who does believe that it's not "just the 'Net" - in other words, that people can care about and help one another on the Internet.

But it's not the same as confiding in somebody around where you are. Could you check back in about this, please? Not that anybody here can do cyber-therapy, but it's a start.

It's good that you're reaching out about these scary thoughts! You're not alone. \:\)

Ariel
_________________________
If this is coffee, bring me tea. If this is tea, bring me coffee.
~Abraham Lincoln~

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#876296 - 05/15/03 11:28 PM Re: Something that really troubles me
Mr. Gould Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/01
Posts: 1111
 Quote:
Eat meat, and eat more meat. Nothing as tasty.[/b]
I couldn't have said it better myself!

I understand your problem Bb since I somtimes develop odd habits. In time I think about how foolish they are, and I laugh. Now let me assure you that the meat taken from a DEAD animal does NOT feel pain. Hence the word DEAD. DEAD meaning not alive!!!! Thus, a piece of steak does not feel pain.

Happy eating!

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#876297 - 05/15/03 11:42 PM Re: Something that really troubles me
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
If God had meant for us to eat vegetables, he would have made them out of meat.

As for steak, just wipe its nose and bring it out. If it wiggles a little when I bite into it, that's ok.

If you sit around worrying if dead animals feel you eating them, I suggest you discuss this with your local mental health center. There may be a few other issues you need to address as well.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#876298 - 05/16/03 12:29 AM Re: Something that really troubles me
valarking Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2331
Loc: Dallas
Did you know there are MILLIONS of animals slaughtered yearly by harvesting machines? And it's really PAINFUL.

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#876299 - 05/16/03 12:39 AM Re: Something that really troubles me
jgoo Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/23/01
Posts: 3974
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Larry:
If God had meant for us to eat vegetables, he would have made them out of meat.[/b]
ROFL!!!
_________________________
For off-topic discussion, please feel free to visit www.coffee-room.com

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#876300 - 05/16/03 01:03 AM Re: Something that really troubles me
ClassicalVegan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 156
Loc: B.C. Canada
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Larry:
If God had meant for us to eat vegetables, he would have made them out of meat.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sorry, but the logic escapes me... :rolleyes:
_________________________
Allie

"Sing praise to the God of Jacob! Start the music and beat the tambourines; play pleasant music on the harps and the lyres." Psalm 81:1-2.

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#876301 - 05/16/03 01:28 AM Re: Something that really troubles me
katie_dup1 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 1838
Loc: Canada
BbMinor,
I trust your question is a serious one, and I don't know if this helps, but as a former ICU nurse who has sat at the bedside of more than a few brain-dead individuals, I too wondered the same thing (albeit concerning humans), for a short time. But after observing patients' HR, EEG, BP, etc. tracings for hours on end and during different (sometimes uncomfortable/painful) procedures (e.g. needle pokes for blood sampling), and observing virtually no change in these same parameters (that are known to vary with such procedures), I am convinced the dead do not feel pain. Now, whether or not one's soul feels pain, emotional or otherwise, I will not speculate....

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#876302 - 05/16/03 02:22 AM Re: Something that really troubles me
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
 Quote:
Originally posted by ClassicalVegan:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Larry:
If God had meant for us to eat vegetables, he would have made them out of meat.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sorry, but the logic escapes me... :rolleyes: [/b]
It's a joke. The whole thread is a joke.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#876303 - 05/16/03 05:31 AM Re: Something that really troubles me
benedict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 2519
Loc: European Union
BeePhlatMinor,

How old are you ?

The reason I am asking is that fears like the one you are experiencing now mean different things at different stages of life.

My youngest daughter (21 now) used to be terrified by whales when she was 10.

There are no whales around Paris (France), but the fear was vivid.

This fear stayed with her for years and somehow her mother and I felt that it meant something real that would go away one day if she could live with it as long as she felt it was there.

When she grew up, she began very adventurous and frightened us by going to Bosnia or working with the street children in India.

And she became a vegetarian.

Why do I tell you this ?

First to tell you that most of us have weird parts in ourselves. \:o

Secondly to tell you that you have to decide if your ideas about the feelings of dead organisms make sense to the rational part of you.
And if they do not, you can decide either to live with a temporary irrational part that seems to be frightened or want to talk with a professional person that will help you just by taking seriously what you think and feel.

And you can talk to us.

Some of us will laugh (they usually are enormous meat eaters and will give you an enormous slap in the back that might make you feel better ...or worse), some of us will feel worried for you and all of us will try to help.

\:\) \:\)
_________________________
Benedict

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#876304 - 05/16/03 06:05 AM Re: Something that really troubles me
johnmoonlight Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 2384
Loc: Lancaster, pa
Scientific experiment:
amputate one of your digits(I know it hurts)then pickle it, season it, marinate it, dry it to make jerky, whatever you like...when you then decide to dine on the tasty morsel I can assure you, you WILL NOT feel it. \:D And as Larry said, if it wiggles a little don't worry.
_________________________
While one who sings with his tongue on fire
Gargles in the rat race choir
Bent out of shape from society's pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the hole
That he's in.

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#876305 - 05/16/03 08:38 AM Re: Something that really troubles me
lb Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 1731
Loc: Indiana
johnmoonlight

I think if you boned it out and fixed it like Sushi it would be better.

lb

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#876306 - 05/16/03 08:43 AM Re: Something that really troubles me
johnmoonlight Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 2384
Loc: Lancaster, pa
LB great idea; I hadn't thought of that! You could even incorporate into a California roll...my mouth is watering.
_________________________
While one who sings with his tongue on fire
Gargles in the rat race choir
Bent out of shape from society's pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the hole
That he's in.

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#876307 - 05/16/03 08:53 AM Re: Something that really troubles me
lb Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 1731
Loc: Indiana
I think BeePhlatt needs to spend some time in rural China or Ethiopia.

The vegetarians are/were just spoiled kids that are trying to make a statement. If they were hungry enough they would eat bugs, worms, or even raw meat to stay alive. Hunger has a way of compromising ones principles.

lb

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#876308 - 05/16/03 09:11 AM Re: Something that really troubles me
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
Quit tormenting the vegetarians.

Benedict - I'm so happy to see you posting your reflections -

madame la pomme la bras de fer
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#876309 - 05/16/03 09:40 AM Re: Something that really troubles me
benedict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 2519
Loc: European Union
Bonjour madame la pomme au bras de fer, \:\)
_________________________
Benedict

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#876310 - 05/16/03 09:45 AM Re: Something that really troubles me
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
au
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#876311 - 05/16/03 09:56 AM Re: Something that really troubles me
benedict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 2519
Loc: European Union
_________________________
Benedict

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#876312 - 05/16/03 10:00 AM Re: Something that really troubles me
ob1knabe Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 141
Loc: New Jersey
Ariel and Benedict--
Thoughtful and respectful posts.

BeeFlat--
Listen to what they have to say. They come from a position of experience with their own children and are obviously speaking from both their hearts and minds. It is important to respect yourself for who you are and to gain further understanding of who that person is. Again, I can only encourage you to follow their advice and ignore those who want to ridicule your questions.
_________________________
"A thing of beauty is a joy for ever"
John Keats

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#876313 - 05/16/03 10:15 AM Re: Something that really troubles me
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
I wasn't ridiculing the question. Anyone who thinks dead animals can feel them eating them needs help from a mental health professional. Anyone who thinks Martians live in the walls of their closets need help from mental health professionals too. It isn't ridiculing their thoughts to point them toward help.

I will say however, this phobia is so off the wall I have a hard time accepting it as being serious.

I had a great-aunt who thought cars and telephones were demonic. She refused to have either one of them. She would take a cab however, because according to her, "they are professionals, trained to handle the beasts".....

Since she had to use a phone to call a cab, she would walk down the street to a phone booth on the corner (I guess phone booths got a pass because they were "professional" too....). Twice, she was standing in a phone booth calling a cab, when a cab ran off the street and ran over the phone booth with her in it.

She also thought her husband's shoes were haunted, and made him leave them outside the house, and since his feet had been in them all day, she made him live in the basement so the residue of the ghosts wouldn't get on her carpet.....

But even *she* didn't worry if the meat she was eating was feeling anything......
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#876314 - 05/16/03 10:20 AM Re: Something that really troubles me
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
Come on Larry, are you going to seriously try and tell me with a straight face that Martians are not living in the walls of my closet?

Please! :rolleyes:
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#876315 - 05/16/03 10:37 AM Re: Something that really troubles me
lb Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 1731
Loc: Indiana
No animal, and this includes man, can exist without another animal dying.

If you are a vegetarian because you prefer vegetables, or a medical condition, no problem.

If you are a vegetarian because of a phobia, get professional help.

If you are a vegetarian because of a principle, get a friggin life. You are not able to exist without some form of animal byproduct in your life.

Your clothes, transportation, furniture, even the fertilizer you put on your veggie garden, will probably have animal byproducts in them.

To those with phobias, all these things are screaming with pain when you use them.

lb

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#876316 - 05/16/03 11:20 AM Re: Something that really troubles me
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14051
Loc: Louisiana
jm stated:LB great idea; I hadn't thought of that! You could even incorporate into a California roll...my mouth is watering.

Anybody ever notice that human ribs look a lot like pork? ;\)
_________________________
www.coffee-room.com

Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#876317 - 05/16/03 01:20 PM Re: Something that really troubles me
ClassicalVegan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 156
Loc: B.C. Canada
lb, I must say that was a disgusting post. Was there a purpose to it other than cruelty?

lb: "If you are a vegetarian because of a principle, get a friggin life. You are not able to exist without some form of animal byproduct in your life."

Probably not in the modern world, but every person who TRIES to live without using vast amounts of animal products, makes a big difference. Imagine what all of us together could do.

It's difficult for me to respect your opinions when you state them in so rude a fashion.
_________________________
Allie

"Sing praise to the God of Jacob! Start the music and beat the tambourines; play pleasant music on the harps and the lyres." Psalm 81:1-2.

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