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#877172 - 08/20/04 07:52 AM What Say Ye?
John Andrew Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 3041
Loc: Southern California
Iran's Vice president has announced it is adopting the Bush Doctrine on pre-emptive war concering its nuclear power plants. In short, it has said that it has the right to go anywhere in the world and undertake a preemptive attack against a country it believes is a threat to them.

This is the exact concern so many expressed when Mr. Bush adopted this policty -- that other countries would adopt it as well.

So, what say those who support the Bush Doctrine?

Do you support Iran adopting it? Do you accept Iran adopting it? Do you think the spreading of the Bush Doctrine to other countries throughout the world is a good and acceptable thing?

Given that nations such as Iran, who we are threatening, have adopted the Bush Doctrine and have announced they have the right to attack us preemptively if they feel we threaten their nuclear program, do you think the Bush Doctrine has made us safer or more vulnerable?
_________________________
You can be disappointed, but you cannot walk away. This fight has just begun. Senator John Edwards

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#877173 - 08/20/04 08:06 AM Re: What Say Ye?
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13825
Loc: Iowa City, IA
It's unsettling, but I think it's ultimately harmless. I think the international community would see it for what it is - an argument fit for a 9-year-old: "But MOM, George's country did it, so why can't MINE!!!!" \:\)
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#877174 - 08/20/04 08:12 AM Re: What Say Ye?
John Andrew Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 3041
Loc: Southern California
Except, Kreisler, Mr. Bush moved ahead without caring what the international community said. Is this not part of the Bush Doctrine?

Working with the international community is the way nations, including the US, have always done it. This is one of the major changes to our foreign policy that the Bush Doctrine makes.

Iran now is arguing the same. They need not use international organs to try to resolve the problem. They can just attack if they feel threatened.

I agree with you it is unsettling. I disagree with is harmless. Whether Iran invokes the Bush Doctrine now and acts on it or some other country does in the future, its spread to other countries is not harmless.
_________________________
You can be disappointed, but you cannot walk away. This fight has just begun. Senator John Edwards

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#877175 - 08/20/04 08:22 AM Re: What Say Ye?
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
Do you honestly believe that Iran would have ever asked permission of the "international community" before attacking anyone or that their claims that doing something because we did are justified? It is a strange world in which you exists where 14 months of wrangling at the UN is characterized as moving ahead without caring what the international community said and the claims made by a renegade terror supporting state should be considered equivalent in legitimacy to those of our own.

I am definitely not finding anything to wring my hands over here except that we may delay too long in stopping Iran. Preemptively, I might add.
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#877176 - 08/20/04 08:44 AM Re: What Say Ye?
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14057
Loc: Louisiana
If Iran wants to adopt the Bush Doctrine, I'd say their first step should be to accept Israel as a nation, and a legitimate entity in the Middle East.

Unless they are thinking of invading Brooklyn, of course.
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Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#877177 - 08/20/04 09:30 AM Re: What Say Ye?
shantinik Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/23/01
Posts: 4271
Loc: Olympia, WA
Why do you have to feel threatened to attack pre-emptively? Was Grenada preparing a nuclear strike on New Jersey?

So who has Iran attacked recently?

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#877178 - 08/20/04 09:55 AM Re: What Say Ye?
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13825
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I think if the Middle East really wants to stick it to us and adopt our methods, they should send thousands of Islamic missionaries to convert all of us to Islam. They complain so much about Western influences, so why not fight fire with fire. \:D

(And really, I'd rather have Islamic missionaries come to my door than Jehovah's Witnesses or some of the Baptist churches around here. At least I'd learn something before turning them away.)
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#877179 - 08/20/04 10:14 PM Re: What Say Ye?
ny1911 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2238
Loc: New York
If Iran wants to send troops over to pre-emptively take out our nuclear silos, let them try. They won't do it that way because they know they know they will lose. It seems to me they've just acknowledged that they will embrace terrorism in the name of pre-emption. That, in my book, makes them next on the list. They have means, they have expressed intention, they are done.
_________________________
So live your life and live it well.
There's not much left of me to tell.
I just got back up each time I fell.

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#877180 - 08/20/04 10:36 PM Re: What Say Ye?
JoeB Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/03
Posts: 671
Loc: Northern California
Iran has a choice to make. Stop preparing to build and/or building nuclear weapons or be attacked by Israel. There is also a possibility that the US may reluctantly attack Iran in order to preempt an Israeli attack but given the last couple of months in Iraq, Bush probably can’t do that. Iran claims their nuclear developments are only for peaceful power production. They also continue to claim that ‘students’ took American hostages and held them for over a year. Neither claim is believable. The recent saber rattling by Iran is possibly based on a mistaken assumption that American policy towards them will be markedly different under Kerry than Bush. They may be wrong in an unexpected way. Just as ‘only Nixon could go to China’ maybe only Kerry can go to Tehran.
In any case, I suspect Israel is holding off destroying Iran’s nuclear assets until after the American election (but before the inauguration?). Irrespective of who wins the US election, if Iran does not abandon it’s nuclear weapon development program then Israel will attack Iran with the purpose of destroying the nuclear installations in Iran. If Iran already has one or more nukes and hits Israel then Israel will respond with overwhelming force. The Iranians are playing a very dangerous game and, even though the Europeans have acted in good faith to discourage Iran, their efforts have not been effective.
_________________________
"How, Monsieur, you care not for music? You do not play the clavecin? I am sorry for you! You are indeed condemming yourself to a dull old age!" - Fouquet

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