HAHAHAHA! Now THAT'S funny!!!! Actually, this whole thread is pretty funny. [Sputter, sputter. Dang commies, postin' from that there subversive degenerate sm~t rag]

I personally like YP's posts. They *are* provocative (but not in a base way)and they do get people thinking. It's also quite amusing to watch Larry react to them.

I don't think YP has even ever stooped to calling Larry a name (no small feat, as I can attest having been on Larry's bash list since my earliest postings here).

As I wrote in March yhabpo = Y[/b]oung H[/b]umiliated A[/b]nd B[/b]itter P[/b]olitical O[/b]utcast

That yhabpo is from another culture is irrelevant. What is relevant is the extent to which yhabpo outwardly appears to despise open democracy along with the culture and values of the country in which yhabpo resides.

Yelstin had his own yhabpo when he was President of Russia. That yhabpo was called Vladimir Zhirinovsky. Rather than persecuting Zhirinovsky, Yeltsin made certain that Vlad got lot's of press and TV media coverage. As a result Zhirinovsky's mass appeal dropped from over 35% in 1994 to a mere 7% by 1996. It stays pretty much between 5% - 7% to this day.

Can we vote him off the "island" Survivor-style?

A. Yabbadabbadoo is a troll. I doubt he hails from a different culture. He just enjoys yanking chains.

B. He most definitely is a waste of bandwidth.

C. Quirt, I think I'm fixin' to get one of us thrown outta here, 'cuz I've 'bout had enough. If you'd like to jab everytime someone appears, perhaps what is good for the goose, is good for the gander.

I think I've worked up a good enough mad, and you are a worthy opponent.

Shall the games begin?

He represents a distinct minority of participants on this board. He says (and I'd like to believe) that he is from a different culture.

I love when people agree with me on things - but I can learn from when people disagree.

I've told Yhabpo that I thought that sometimes he did his viewpoint a disservice by offending people - but I don't think is conduct is unique.

K

I'm sympathetic toward yhapbo, but I'd like to see him defend himself. (i.e. not just sit back and watch the arguments centered around him.)

Jeez, I'm surprised. We don't like yhapbo. We think he doesn't "defend" himself. He posts stuff that bug us.

LET'S GET HIM!!!

Lord of the flies, here we come.

Grow up, people! This is an internet forum, not your own personal Fight Night.

I'm equally surprised and disappointed that some of the moderators think that cheering on the "get him" mentality is appropriate.

I think he's probably a troll, too, just because there have been too many inconsistencies in the few personal snippets he has shared about himself and the innuendo one would naturally read into the nature of his posts. I wish he were real, and would let us know more about himself. I wish we had someone on this board who was *really* from an Islamic country. We had Wacky for awhile, but during his brief foray he wasn't political. I hope he reappears. We had another mideast quy, briefly (anyone remember his name?), who I'm guessing was also a troll, and wasn't nearly as provocative as YP. And, now YP, who seems to be very keen on the goings on in Iraq, and has used the term infidel here, and decries feminism and women's suffrage, claimed to be resident of Canada and a mideast country but who denies being Muslim.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he took on his ascerbic quality here until he had been repeatedly attacked personally for the political content of his posts.

I wouldn't say that I'm personally sympathetic (I don't think sympathy is the right word, as he hasn't incurred anything unjustly... I'm sympathetic of Toby the Rabbit).

But I agree with Ken that Yhabpo should be able to post pretty much what it wants to... I fell most people should be afforded that.

I too (while I might not act like it) think more can be learned from other people and other cultures. And yes, some here are too quick to fly off the handle sometimes.

I don't want censorship or banning.
But in return I'd like posting with thought.
We can all copy/paste article after article, but that gets boring after awhile.
I don't feel like I know what yhabpo really thinks, I just feel like he posts jabs at things he doesn't like.

Tell me what you do like, let's discourse. Let's learn from each other...
I'm game if you are.

I'm not at all bothered by what he posts (in fact, I've found many of the articles very intriguing), and I certainly don't wan't to "get him" lord of the flies-style. Still, I want to see him defend himself, post more--give us reason to believe he's not a troll.

you know what - that is not fair. I am still me.

If it is, than I quit... moderate your own dam forum

I do not feel threatened. There is no need for me to defend myself.

What I feel is disgust. You sick monsters have caused me enough grief through your government’s atrocities. I dare try to shine a ray of truth upon the squabbling mass and they react to it as a minor irritation, going about in their blank activities.

I was foolish to think that the American people were not evil. I wished that they were, too, the victim of their administration. This forum has proved the opposite. The people living within are murderous and hateful, their abhorrence equalling or even surpassing their tax-funded soldiers. Some Americans claim to agree with me, yet they still pay taxes, making them a hypocrite.

Anyhow, I will continue my probably futile attempt to convince some of patrons here. Some people here have proven to be a pleasant surprise.

Amen!

These people are genuine bona fide loonies. They want to eliminate secularism from the US government, destroy all governmental programs like social security, medicare, and medicaid, repeal Roe vs. Wade, force schools to teach their brand of religion, and stack the courts with their likes. Of course, then they won't be called activist judges because they will act at their bidding.

IMHO, they are extremely dangerous. Funny thing is, I don't think most Americans realize just how dangerous.

Nope. Can't find any good here. Tried. Looked real hard, too. Yep, we're real *evil* for wanting to go after this sicko.

Apple*, please, stay with it.

With all due respect apple, this doesn't imply an ability to be able to put your personal feelings to one side - a pre-requisite for the job of moderator.

I hope I'm wrong and I'm willing to be corrected.

I enjoy Yhabpo's posts and the responses to them.
Please let's not have a repeat of the Wacky - is he or isn't he a troll? - type of hysteria we had a few months back.

lucy, if I remember correctly Wacky wasn't trying to be deliberately inciteful. This guy is. See above post. I don't think anyone should be banned. Sockpuppets and trolls can be ignored. This guy clearly means to offend people. Some of us feel we should have the right to fight back and clearly Larry is our best weapon.

Save a SUV, shoot an Arab.

Ya know, I could get into this "monster" stuff.....

Careful Jolly...RZ may be keeping a tally of those allusions to violence.

It's actually a play off of a country music song title, "Save a horse, ride a cowboy", but that one didn't quite fit here.....

Peggy, I think Wacky *was* trying to be inciteful but probably not using quite the same technique as Yhab.
I like his posts and find they illuminate many issues for me either through his opinions, his sources or - and probably most importantly - the counter-arguments he provokes from posters of the opposite political persuasion. *That's* why I think he's an important poster to have around.
I can ignore his bile. That's *his* problem.

How long did it take for inhabitants of the US South to get over the Civil War? Did the enmity last 10 years? 20? 100? Still?

Can you imagine what enmity would have arisen if a foreign power had directly put troops onto US soil to aid either side? Would there be more or less enmity towards that government?

Europe, the UN and the US - all have toyed with the Middle East - carved it up, imposed or dethroned local governments.

Is the expectation that there will be no enmity in return? Everyone meant well in the civil war as well. (Heck, I still think the South had a more compelling and more righteous case - that state's and their inhabitants should have a fair amount of self-determination.)

It would seem that we have higher expectations of others than we do of ourselves.

All Yhapbo is saying is that there are plenty of apologists for this administration on these forums. If he sees our government as pursuing "evil" purposes, then these apologists are supportive of that "evil." One doesn't have to agree to understand his point.

You and I have supported the notion that people should tolerate (welcome) Larry's gruff style. Why should it be different for Yhapbo?

K

To the point of the original article:

There isn't a politically active person anywhere in this country, of any philosophical viewpoint, that isn't actively trying to "remake America in their own image." Frankly, that's the point of all political activity. What puzzles me about the situation being written about isn't that Christians are trying to shape the country in a way that they want. What is far more puzzling, and troubling, to me is the hypocrisy shown by people who think that that's wrong, or that it's any different from what they themselves are actively trying to do.

Apparently, the Rolling Stone article that started this fight got very much under some peoples skin. Re-reading it made me wonder why. Do they not want us to consider the possibility that the United States could become a larger version of the Massachusetts colony as governed by the Puritans. If the separation of church and state that has existed in this country since its founding is breached, where do those who disagree with the majority go? There's no Rhode Island or Pennsylvania readily available to flee the tyranny.

Big Al

Ken, I find it very hard to appreciate anything about Yhapbo. I have tolerated Yhapbo and have said I would not like to see him banned. He has a perfect right to say what he would like. My post to Larry was to infer that. I have a difficult time arguing with Yhapbo simply because not only doesn't he take me seriously, he has absolutely no respect for me. He has illustrated that in the past. He considers me and my ilk as mere nothings. Therefore, I welcome Larry to go after him. I can't fight him but Larry can. He understands Larry and for some sick reason prefers that form of argument. He seems to actually welcome it.

I have friends who are Middle-Eastern. My animosity toward Yhapbo is not racially motivated, at all. I almost married an Iranian back in the late 70s when an inter-racial marriage would not have been at all welcomed. His family's problem not mine. Please, do not think that this is a racist issue on my part. I would love to find a solution in the Middle-East. But, when people like myself are called *evil* I don't see it happening anytime soon.

I have many close arab friends (I've even learned to uvulate!).
I don't know any of them who voluntarily came to this country and speak the way yhabpo does. His opinion is accepted, and tolerated. But that does not mean that it hold equal value to every other opinion. Sorry, I'm no Egalitarian.

Has Yhabpo told us who and where he is yet? Is he middle-eastern? Persian? Arab? What? Who?

He seems to be here obviously to cause strife.
Fine.
But let's call it what it is.

It isn't insightful or provocative...
He[/b] may be, but we haven't seen him yet. The articles he copy/pastes are not for the most part.
It's fine that he doesn't reveal anything about himself personally... but then how can you expect to be taken seriously?
You can't expect to be a "regular poster" who is "taken seriously" and even considered "provocative" if you never let anybody know who you are.

DING! DING! DING!

Wrong, at least in some aspects.

The early history of this country is ignored by many, but church services were routinely held in the same building that Congress met in. Nobody found anything wrong with it at the time. And Jefferson was more than happy to prop his feet up, and listen to the sermon.

The Constitution gives us freedom of, not freedom from, religion. It is inconceivable that people's belief systems do not dictate their personal, and moral behavior.

We currently have many secular humanists trying to implement their vision of the world, as the law of the land. Why is it allowable for them to do so, and verbotten for the conservative Christian?

Politics is politics. If I can muster the votes, and stay within the bounds of the Constitution, look out folks, 'cuz here I come...

You are confused, and have exaggerated my words. I merely stated that males and females are vastly biologically unequal, and that society should optimize the distribution of roles by acknowledging this inequality. I have never said I have no respect for you. There are tasks in which you have an inherit advantage, and the same applies to me.

People have slowly wandered into inefficiency, being subjected to the fake opium that liberty leads to ultimate happiness.

If I was a "fake" I would have told a lie to circumvent the label long ago.

I don't think it is racist at all.

I think Yhabpo has trouble being heard because of his passion - and he uses terms of derision - but so what? It may help to dismiss him - just as "winger" or "lefty" cause people to dismiss the person who uses those terms.

A good lesson for us all.

Imagine being taken from your home where you'd just had dinner with those who were closest to you...you were found guilty on trumped up charges, tortured and executed. Could you forgive those who did all of this to you.

Could you love them?

That's the standard for Christians.

For much of the early history of the church people were crucified for no other reason than they dedicated themselves to Christ's teachings. They forgave their persecutors. They appreciated that they were given the opportunity to demonstrate their commitment to their Lord.

Now the standard is that if someone calls us a name, we demand retribution - and further want someone else to provide the retribution?

From Christ's standpoint, maybe things were better in the olden days.

Yhabpo's words are but a gentle breeze. Listen, if you will, ignore or try and understand. But to silence seems wrong.

Ken

Edit: I think some of the most horrendous things in history have come about from people not understanding one another. I would hope that in an age in which we can all communicate more easily and directly through the internet - that perhaps that will change...for the better, that is

You have never said you have no respect for me but sometimes your actions imply it. Or, maybe, I'm over sensitive. If you say you respect me I'll take your word on it. Do you? I would welcome the opportunity to respect each other. And hope that I have only misinterpreted some of what you are saying.