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#880619 - 04/13/05 10:39 PM The Crusaders
yhabpo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 489
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/_/id/7235393

Christian evangelicals are plotting to remake America in their own image

By BOB MOSER


It's February, and 900 of America's staunchest Christian fundamentalists have gathered in Fort Lauderdale to look back on what they accomplished in last year's election -- and to plan what's next. As they assemble in the vast sanctuary of Coral Ridge Presbyterian, with all fifty state flags dangling from the rafters, three stadium-size video screens flash the name of the conference: RECLAIMING AMERICA FOR CHRIST. These are the evangelical activists behind the nation's most effective political machine -- one that brought more than 4 million new Christian voters to the polls last November, sending George W. Bush back to the White House and thirty-two new pro-lifers to Congress. But despite their unprecedented power, fundamentalists still see themselves as a persecuted minority, waging a holy war against the godless forces of secularism. To rouse themselves, they kick off the festivities with "Soldiers of the Cross, Arise," the bloodthirstiest tune in all of Christendom: "Seize your armor, gird it on/Now the battle will be won/Soon, your enemies all slain/Crowns of glory you shall gain."
Meet the Dominionists -- biblical literalists who believe God has called them to take over the U.S. government. As the far-right wing of the evangelical movement, Dominionists are pressing an agenda that makes Newt Gingrich's Contract With America look like the Communist Manifesto. They want to rewrite schoolbooks to reflect a Christian version of American history, pack the nation's courts with judges who follow Old Testament law, post the Ten Commandments in every courthouse and make it a felony for gay men to have sex and women to have abortions. In Florida, when the courts ordered Terri Schiavo's feeding tube removed, it was the Dominionists who organized round-the-clock protests and issued a fiery call for Gov. Jeb Bush to defy the law and take Schiavo into state custody. Their ultimate goal is to plant the seeds of a "faith-based" government that will endure far longer than Bush's presidency -- all the way until Jesus comes back.

"Most people hear them talk about a 'Christian nation' and think, 'Well, that sounds like a good, moral thing,' says the Rev. Mel White, who ghostwrote Jerry Falwell's autobiography before breaking with the evangelical movement. "What they don't know -- what even most conservative Christians who voted for Bush don't know -- is that 'Christian nation' means something else entirely to these Dominionist leaders. This movement is no more about following the example of Christ than Bush's Clean Water Act is about clean water."

The godfather of the Dominionists is D. James Kennedy, the most influential evangelical you've never heard of. A former Arthur Murray dance instructor, he launched his Florida ministry in 1959, when most evangelicals still followed Billy Graham's gospel of nonpartisan soul-saving. Kennedy built Coral Ridge Ministries into a $37-million-a-year empire, with a TV-and-radio audience of 3 million, by preaching that it was time to save America -- not soul by soul but election by election. After helping found the Moral Majority in 1979, Kennedy became a five-star general in the Christian army. Bush sought his blessing before running for president -- and continues to consult top Dominionists on matters of federal policy.

"Our job is to reclaim America for Christ, whatever the cost," Kennedy says. "As the vice regents of God, we are to exercise godly dominion and influence over our neighborhoods, our schools, our government, our literature and arts, our sports arenas, our entertainment media, our news media, our scientific endeavors -- in short, over every aspect and institution of human society."

At Reclaiming America, most of the conference is taken up by grassroots training sessions that supply ministers, retirees and devout churchgoers with "The Facts of Stem-Cell Research" or "Practical Steps to Impact Your Community with America's Historical Judeo-Christian Heritage." "We're going to turn you into an army of one," Gary Cass, executive director of Reclaiming America, promises activists at one workshop held in Evangalism Explosion Hall. The Dominionists also attend speeches by supporters like Rep. Katherine Harris of Florida, who urges them to "win back America for God." In their spare time, conference-goers buy books about a God-devised health program called the Maker's Diet or meet with a financial adviser who offers a "biblically sound investment plan."

To implement their sweeping agenda, the Dominionists are working to remake the federal courts in God's image. In their view, the Founding Fathers never intended to erect a barrier between politics and religion. "The First Amendment does not say there should be a separation of church and state," declares Alan Sears, president and CEO of the Alliance Defense Fund, a team of 750 attorneys trained by the Dominionists to fight abortion and gay marriage. Sears argues that the constitutional guarantee against state-sponsored religion is actually designed to "shield" the church from federal interference -- allowing Christians to take their rightful place at the head of the government. "We have a right, indeed an obligation, to govern," says David Limbaugh, brother of Rush and author of Persecution: How Liberals Are Waging War Against Christianity. Nothing gets the Dominionists to their feet faster than ringing condemnations of judicial tyranny. "Activist judges have systematically deconstructed the Constitution," roars Rick Scarborough, author of Mixing Church and State. "A God-free society is their goal!"

Activist judges, of course, are precisely what the Dominionists want. Their model is Roy Moore, the former Alabama chief justice who installed a 5,300-pound granite memorial to the Ten Commandments, complete with an open Bible carved in its top, in the state judicial building. At Reclaiming America, Roy's Rock sits out front, fresh off a tour of twenty-one states, perched on the flag-festooned flatbed of a diesel truck, a potent symbol of the "faith-based" justice the Dominionists are bent on imposing. Activists at the conference pose for photographs beside the rock and have circulated a petition urging President Bush to appoint Moore -- who once penned an opinion calling for the state to execute "practicing homosexuals" -- to the U.S. Supreme Court.

"The other side knows we've got strongholds in the executive and legislative branches," Cass tells the troops. "If we start winning the judiciary, their power base is going to be eroded."

To pack the courts with fundamentalists like Moore, Dominionist leaders are planning a massive media blitz. They're also pressuring Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist -- an ally who's courting support for his presidential bid -- to halt the long-standing use of filibusters to hold up judicial nominations. An anti-filibuster petition circulating at the conference blasts Democrats for their "outrageous stonewalling of appointments" -- even though Congress has approved more nominees of Bush than of any president since Jimmy Carter.

It helps that Dominionists have a direct line to the White House: The Rev. Richard Land, top lobbyist for the 16-million-member Southern Baptist Convention, enjoys a weekly conference call with top Bush advisers including Karl Rove. "We've got the Holy Spirit's wind at our backs!" Land declares in an arm-waving, red-faced speech. He takes particular aim at the threat posed by John Lennon, denouncing "Imagine" as a "secular anthem" that envisions a future of "clone plantations, child sacrifice, legalized polygamy and hard-core porn."

The Dominionists are also stepping up efforts to turn public schools into forums for evangelism. In a landmark case, the Alliance Defense Fund is suing a California school district that threatened to dismiss a born-again teacher who was evangelizing fifth-graders. In the conference's opening ceremony, the Dominionists recite an oath they dream of hearing in every classroom: "I pledge allegiance to the Christian flag, and to the Savior for whose kingdom it stands. One Savior, crucified, risen and coming again, with life and liberty for all who believe."

Cass urges conference-goers to stack school boards with Dominionists. "The most humble Christian is more qualified for office than the best-educated pagan," says Cass, an anti-abortion activist who led a takeover of his school district's board in San Diego. "We built quite a little grass-roots machine out there. Now it's my burden to multiply that success all across America."

Cass points to the Rev. Gary Beeler, a Baptist minister from Tennessee who got permission for thousands of students to skip class and attend weeklong events that he calls "old-time revivals, with preaching and singing and soul-saving and the whole nine yards." Now, with support from Kennedy, Beeler is selling his house and buying a mobile home to spread his crusade nationwide. "It's not exactly what I planned to do with my retirement," he says. "But it's what God told me to do."

Cass also presents another small-town activist, Kevin McCoy, with a Salt and Light Award for leading a successful campaign to shut down an anti-bullying program in West Virginia schools. McCoy, a soft-spoken, prematurely gray postal worker, fought to end the program because it taught tolerance for gay people -- and thus, in his view, constituted a "thinly disguised effort to promote the homosexual agenda." "What America needs," Cass tells the faithful, "is more Kevin McCoys."

While the dominionists rely on grass-roots activists to fight their battles, they are backed by some of America's richest entrepreneurs. Amway founder Rich DeVos, a Kennedy ally who's the leading Republican contender for governor of Michigan, has tossed more than $5 million into the collection plate. Jean Case, wife of former AOL chief Steve Case -- whose fortune was made largely on sex-chat rooms -- has donated $8 million. And Tom Monaghan, founder of Domino's Pizza, is a major source of cash for Focus on the Family, a megaministry working with Kennedy to eliminate all public schools.

The one-two punch of militant activists and big money has helped make the Dominionists a force in Washington, where a growing number of congressmen owe their elections to the machine. Kennedy has also created the Center for Christian Statesmanship, which trains elected officials to "more effectively share their faith in the public arena." Speaking to the group, House Majority Whip Tom DeLay -- a winner of Kennedy's Distinguished Christian Statesman Award -- called Bush's faith-based initiatives "a great opportunity to bring God back into the public institutions of our country."

The most vivid proof of the Christianizing of Capitol Hill comes at the final session of Reclaiming America. Rep. Walter Jones, a lanky congressman from North Carolina, gives a fire-and-brimstone speech that would have gotten him laughed out of Washington thirty years ago. In today's climate, however, he's got a chance of passing his pet project, the Houses of Worship Free Speech Restoration Act, which would permit ministers to endorse political candidates from their pulpits, effectively converting their tax-exempt churches into Republican campaign headquarters.

"America is under assault!" Jones thunders as his aides dash around the sanctuary snapping PR photos. "Everyone in America has the right to speak freely, except for those standing in the pulpits of our churches!" The amen chorus reaches a fever pitch. Hands fly heavenward. It's one thing to hear such words from Dominionist leaders -- but to this crowd, there's nothing more thrilling than getting the gospel from a U.S. congressman. "You cannot have a strong nation that does not follow God," Jones preaches, working up to a climactic, passionate plea for a biblical republic. "God, please -- God, please -- God, please -- save America!"

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#880620 - 04/14/05 05:59 AM Re: The Crusaders
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
I have a question:

We now have moderators. Why are you moderators spending time deleting posts by sincere, proven posters, yet the village idiot who calls himself Yapababoon is still being allowed to litter the forum with his crap?

Get this fool off the forum. He is offensive, and he is not here because he wants to be a contributing member of the community. Wake up and do your job.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#880621 - 04/14/05 06:11 AM Re: The Crusaders
QuirtEvans Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 978
Loc: U.S.A.
Ah, I understand now. Posting articles from Rolling Stone is offensive, but posting articles from the National Review makes you a valued contributor to the messageboard.

There's nothing like intellectual consistency.
_________________________
If you use lines like "a hyena with hiccups", you might be a redneck.

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#880622 - 04/14/05 06:28 AM Re: The Crusaders
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
Put your bruised ego away sQuirt, and be a man for Gob's sakes.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#880623 - 04/14/05 06:33 AM Re: The Crusaders
jon-nyc Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2022
Loc: the left bank -- of the east r...
 Quote:
Originally posted by QuirtEvans:
Ah, I understand now. Posting articles from Rolling Stone is offensive, but posting articles from the National Review makes you a valued contributor to the messageboard.
[/b]
Duh! You've been posting here since 2004 and you're just now figuring this out?
_________________________
If you don't talk to your children about equal temperment, who will?

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#880624 - 04/14/05 06:39 AM Re: The Crusaders
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
So you two bed wetting liberals can understand - neither the topic nor the source have anything to do with it. It is the intent in which it was posted in the first place. Yapababoon is a troll. Trolls should be removed. That is one of the main functions of moderators. We now have moderators. They need to do their job.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#880625 - 04/14/05 06:47 AM Re: The Crusaders
jon-nyc Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2022
Loc: the left bank -- of the east r...
Larry - why are you always so quick to call people names? It reflects poorly on you, in my opinion.
_________________________
If you don't talk to your children about equal temperment, who will?

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#880626 - 04/14/05 06:51 AM Re: The Crusaders
Brendan Offline


Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5228
Loc: McAllen, TX
 Quote:
Originally posted by Larry:
So you two bed wetting liberals can understand - neither the topic nor the source have anything to do with it. It is the intent in which it was posted in the first place. Yapababoon is a troll. Trolls should be removed. That is one of the main functions of moderators. We now have moderators. They need to do their job. [/b]
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/1/10181.html
_________________________
http://www.BrendanKinsella.com

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#880627 - 04/14/05 06:55 AM Re: The Crusaders
Teal'c Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 34
 Quote:
Originally posted by jon-nyc:
It reflects poorly on you[/b]
Because it reflects the truth. \:\)

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#880628 - 04/14/05 07:20 AM Re: The Crusaders
Nina Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 6467
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Hmmm. I found myself thinking that this was one of yhap's more lucid posts... Yes, it's provocative but that's because of the content of the article.

I don't think yhap's motives in posting it are any less "pure" than the motives of those who post a lot of articles on this forum. Let's face it, a lot of things are posted here whose sole purpose is to push an agenda or say, "so there!"

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#880629 - 04/14/05 07:22 AM Re: The Crusaders
Jack Frost Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 4454
Loc: Maine
 Quote:
Originally posted by Larry:
Put your bruised ego away sQuirt, and be a man for Gob's sakes. [/b]
Yes, Quirt...BE A MAN...and STOP WETTING YOUR BED while you are at it!

Come on Larry, lighten up....


jf
_________________________
"Make the pie higher." GWB

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#880630 - 04/14/05 07:24 AM Re: The Crusaders
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
I have to disagree with Larry on this one. Let yab*whatever* post his drivel. It only serves to highlight his ignorance and bigotry. I appreciate being able to read what the people of planet Zongo actually think even though I find it mostly mystifying why they think it.
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#880631 - 04/14/05 07:26 AM Re: The Crusaders
QuirtEvans Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 978
Loc: U.S.A.
 Quote:
It is the intent in which it was posted in the first place. Yapababoon is a troll. Trolls should be removed. That is one of the main functions of moderators. We now have moderators. They need to do their job.
And why is Yhabpo a troll? Because the PianoWeasel says he is! Quod erat demonstratum!

And how do we know what the moderators' job is? Why, we need look no farther than the PianoWeasel! He'll tell us ... because, as he has demonstrated, he's eminently qualified to be a moderator, he is, after all, so danged moderate.

 Quote:
Put your bruised ego away sQuirt, and be a man for Gob's sakes.
Sorry, but the PianoWeasel is incapable of bruising my ego. Maybe you can bruise a pear, go work on that for a while.

 Quote:
you two bed wetting liberals
Ah, now that's the PianoWeasel we all know so well, the one that never resorts to name-calling. Check back through the thread, PianoWeasel, and see who started the name-calling first. I challenged you on intellectual consistency, but you of course raised the bar to a whole 'nuther level.

And I haven't wet the bed in at least six months. ;\) Further thoughts on that subject have been self-moderated.
_________________________
If you use lines like "a hyena with hiccups", you might be a redneck.

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#880632 - 04/14/05 08:20 AM Re: The Crusaders
ny1911 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2238
Loc: New York
So much for rising above it :rolleyes:
_________________________
So live your life and live it well.
There's not much left of me to tell.
I just got back up each time I fell.

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#880633 - 04/14/05 08:20 AM Re: The Crusaders
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
 Quote:
Originally posted by QuirtEvans:
[QUOTE]
And I haven't wet the bed in at least six months. ;\) Further thoughts on that subject have been self-moderated. [/b]
thank you for sparing us the details.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#880634 - 04/14/05 09:06 AM Re: The Crusaders
QuirtEvans Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 978
Loc: U.S.A.
I never said I rise above it. In fact, I have an unfortunate tendency to sink to the level of the opposition. It's a personal failing.
_________________________
If you use lines like "a hyena with hiccups", you might be a redneck.

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#880635 - 04/14/05 09:49 AM Re: The Crusaders
kluurs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 3739
Loc: Chicago
I don't think yhabpo is a troll. I don't think his post warrants any action.

K

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#880636 - 04/14/05 09:56 AM Re: The Crusaders
markjpcs Offline


Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 3170
Loc: Wisconsin
Larry,

I like you man. I always have. I respect you and even enjoy most of your straightforward sometimes brutal commentary. I agree with you more than I disagree but I do disagree from time to time.

I took this post as moderator and from the very first moment that I applied for the job all I could think about was following yhabpo around deleting all of his trollish posts. I have yet to do that because I realized that the role of moderator carries a heavy responsibility and burden. The burden of tempering one's own opinion (not getting rid of it mind you!) to evaluate posts and make a call with as much objectivity as is possible.

I am also amazed at yhabpo's longevity of participation here. Especially given the constant bashing from the likes of you, me, and others.

I do not agree with most everything he posts but he is entitled to his opinion.

This is not a trollish post. This is not an obscene post. He posted an article just as all of us have done. You do not agree with the contents of that article and that is fine but it does not justify the deletion of the post.
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Visit us at:
The Piano World Practice Club

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#880637 - 04/14/05 10:10 AM Re: The Crusaders
KlavierBauer Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 3773
Loc: Boulder, Colorado
good post Mark, and words for all of us to remember.

Larry, I understand your frustration. You are opinionated, but are also capable of discussing things that you have in common with others.
Yahpbo seems to post solely to upset certain people, and certain ideas.
I see your point that in one thread someone can really get upset at intolerance and bigotry, but in another thread someone is protected under "free speech".
In the end though, I agree with Mark.
We must be the bigger men.
I see the same inconsistencies that you do, but we are not willie-nillie sissy boys Larry! We're gun-totin conservative MinuteMen! We're the people that have ALWAYS carried this country, and will in the future, to protect the rights of the sissies.
Buckup soldier!
You're tougher than that!
Let him spew his ignorance and intolerance.
Laugh at it!
and let the moderators concentrate on truly disheartening subjects like people kissing in public.
_________________________
Outlive Yourself - Become an Organ Donor

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#880638 - 04/14/05 10:44 AM Re: The Crusaders
markjpcs Offline


Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 3170
Loc: Wisconsin
 Quote:
"and let the moderators concentrate on truly disheartening subjects like people kissing in public."
Oh KB that was brutal!

-
Mark
Anti-Sex League Commandant. ;\)

p.s. remember I am reading 1984 for the first time here!
_________________________
Visit us at:
The Piano World Practice Club

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#880639 - 04/14/05 10:54 AM Re: The Crusaders
justme Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 4418
Loc: Englewood, FL
Larry, I used to get quite upset over yahbdoodoo posts. Not anymore. Personally, I think the guy's an idiot. But, then he probably thinks I'm... well... who knows or cares what he/she thinks about me. I'm sure the thoughts aren't pleasant but then he/she probably thinks they're so superior to me they don't have time for thoughts of me.

Anyhow, as much as I have a hard time sometimes with your sometimes brutal posts I *thoroughly* enjoy when you get brutal with yhabdoodoo. Unless it's unhealthy for you I say GO FOR IT!!! This guy's fair game.
_________________________
justme

http://toosad4words.blogspot.com/

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#880640 - 04/14/05 10:57 AM Re: The Crusaders
NAK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 2561
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by justme:
Larry, I used to get quite upset over yahbdoodoo posts. Not anymore. Personally, I think the guy's an idiot. But, then he probably thinks I'm... well... who knows or cares what he/she thinks about me. I'm sure the thoughts aren't pleasant but then he/she probably thinks they're so superior to me they don't have time for thoughts of me.

Anyhow, as much as I have a hard time sometimes with your sometimes brutal posts I *thoroughly* enjoy when you get brutal with yhabdoodoo. Unless it's unhealthy for you I say GO FOR IT!!! This guy's fair game. [/b]
Ahahahahahahhaa!!! I was thinking the exact same thing.

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#880641 - 04/14/05 11:16 AM Re: The Crusaders
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
yhapbo's posts are insensitive.
_________________________
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels

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#880642 - 04/14/05 11:37 AM Re: The Crusaders
fizzygirl Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 614
Loc: Minnesnowta
 Quote:
Originally posted by justme:
I used to get quite upset over yahbdoodoo posts. Not anymore. Personally, I think the guy's an idiot. But, then he probably thinks I'm... well... who knows or cares what he/she thinks about me. I'm sure the thoughts aren't pleasant but then he/she probably thinks they're so superior to me they don't have time for thoughts of me.

Anyhow, as much as I have a hard time sometimes with your sometimes brutal posts I *thoroughly* enjoy when you get brutal with yhabdoodoo. Unless it's unhealthy for you I say GO FOR IT!!! This guy's fair game. [/b]
Eloquently put Justme!

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#880643 - 04/14/05 11:53 AM Re: The Crusaders
markjpcs Offline


Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 3170
Loc: Wisconsin
 Quote:
Originally posted by gryphon:
yhapbo's posts are insensitive. [/b]
Strangely, that is one of the things I like about them! \:D
_________________________
Visit us at:
The Piano World Practice Club

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#880644 - 04/14/05 11:55 AM Re: The Crusaders
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
 Quote:
Originally posted by justme:
Larry, I used to get quite upset over yahbdoodoo posts. Not anymore. Personally, I think the guy's an idiot. But, then he probably thinks I'm... well... who knows or cares what he/she thinks about me. I'm sure the thoughts aren't pleasant but then he/she probably thinks they're so superior to me they don't have time for thoughts of me.

Anyhow, as much as I have a hard time sometimes with your sometimes brutal posts I *thoroughly* enjoy when you get brutal with yhabdoodoo. Unless it's unhealthy for you I say GO FOR IT!!! This guy's fair game. [/b]
You're most brilliant post ever Justme... Way to go.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#880645 - 04/14/05 11:56 AM Re: The Crusaders
ny1911 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2238
Loc: New York
You and me both. In retrospect, I didn't need to add anything to this thread. Whether yhabpo is a troll or merely a bombthrower, he's sitting back and watching a a potential p*ssing contest ensue. Whether I agree with the original post of not, I don't like that type of poster.

 Quote:
Originally posted by QuirtEvans:
I never said I rise above it. In fact, I have an unfortunate tendency to sink to the level of the opposition. It's a personal failing. [/b]
_________________________
So live your life and live it well.
There's not much left of me to tell.
I just got back up each time I fell.

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#880646 - 04/14/05 11:58 AM Re: The Crusaders
KlavierBauer Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 3773
Loc: Boulder, Colorado
count me in the same camp...

I often fall for it, and recognize it too late.
_________________________
Outlive Yourself - Become an Organ Donor

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#880647 - 04/14/05 12:02 PM Re: The Crusaders
kluurs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 3739
Loc: Chicago
Yhapbo is from a different culture. For us, it is an opportunity to learn another viewpoint - one we may not always agree with.

I've learned a lot from folks here - sometimes changing or refining an opinion I've had - or at least better understanding one I disagree with.

For the Christian's here, Yhapbo should represent an opportunity to demonstrate one's faith.

Yes, Yhapbo has offended people here - particularly thinking of the Gryphon thread with his son.

At the same time, I remember what happened with Benedict - where he'd say something like "some folks in Europe think" - and he'd be blasted to high heaven even if it weren't his opinion. After a while, Benedict was less inclined to bother trying to explain to us how others might view us - because if he did, it was immediately assumed that these were his views and he'd be required to defend them and be beaten for them. Even by the coffee room standards, I didn't regard this as a great presentation of what the US is all about.

Words are better than alternatives. Like others here Yhapbo has some passions - that sometimes get in the way of being heard, but I think he's had some reasonable posts amidst the passionate ones.

K

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#880648 - 04/14/05 12:11 PM Re: The Crusaders
justme Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 4418
Loc: Englewood, FL
Ken, you're a better person than I am. As you know I try to see good in everyone. But, this guy seems to ask for it.
_________________________
justme

http://toosad4words.blogspot.com/

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