It�s almost 11 PM. WAY past my bedtime. I know (as my daughter might say)�boring.

It seems these days when I am up too late I am here. Not out at parties. Here. Why? I have not a clue�.or maybe a little�..

Rewind.

Some of you will recall�when I started posting, nobody, including kathyk, knew I was married to kathyk. I was a new moderate liberal and, despite my views in support of affirmative action, drew some support from the likes of Jolly and Larry and others of different viewpoints. I try to be reasonable. I try to listen. I am never SURE that my view is the correct one.

I can�t begin to list what I have learned here�about wine and cooking, gardening, religion and politics, what it means to be human, Christian, not Christian, arguing, not arguing, human nature, anger, love, pixels, fun, pixels�.pixels�and people.

When I first revealed who I really was, I made a game of it and it was a lot of fun for me and a few others�.

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/10/3033.html#000000


I dragged it out perhaps a bit too long�.but I want to quote a piece here�.edited for brevity, clarity, and nodoze�.


****FLASHBACK****

Please allow me to introduce myself.........

As many of you guessed, I am Mr. kathyk.

I never said I was black. Larry told you all a month ago that I was not.

I started lurking a little because kathyk would sometimes go on about what one of you said--sometimes laughing, sometimes p*ssed, and she started emailing me links to certain threads. Like many if not most of your spouses, I protested to to avail. "It's not like they're real people or anything...they're just a bunch of pixels...probably all lying about what they look like...." As you may recall, she quit a few times and then kept coming back. I don't know about your spouses, but when kathyk stays up late chatting here, I miss her!

It was also becoming clear that the liberals, badly outnumbered, needed a little help.....
When I saw the affirmative action thread, I decided to jump in. I thought a moderate tone would be effective And consistent with who I am. In light of the topic, the avatar you know as Jack Frost jumped out. I really didn't plan to hang around very long....really....
After just a few posts, I got a PM from (guess who)..........kathyk......welcoming me and telling me the PF needed another lefty to help kick conservative butt ...or something like that. I didn't reply. An online relationship with my wife, with her thinking I am someone else.......that could be TROUBLE. Another day or two went by....lots of activity on the AA thread...and I don't think I dared stray off it....

I came home one night and sat in the kitchen (as I often do) with kathyk as she cooks the weekday meal to share the day as we often do..."You wouln't believe what Jolly said today...and that Larry...but there's this new guy...a liberal...and I think he is black....and kind of smart....and his name is Jack Frost."
At this point I am really befuddled. This could be a HUGE problem if I let it go on and, for example, kathyk decides to have a black pixel boyfriend (By this time I am very much up to speed with Apple and TomK). I need to come clean so I announce "I am Jack...." Silence........and then lots of kudos!!!! Hey, I did the right thing! And so it goes.

�

This has been fun. I almost didn't bother because I thought maybe nobody would be interested enough to ask questions....clearly i misjudged that. As I said, I wasn't planning to hang around, but I got drawn in...as have many of you.

****END OF FLASHBACK****


I think I have almost 5,000 posts. Remarkable. Scarey. I will never get there obviously, but where and why did all that time go�

Some of you pixel people have become real and those are the relationships I value the most. There isn�t a one of you I have met that I would not love to see again, and the group of �real people� will expand in a couple of weeks at another New England Piano World party coming up.

But some of the pixel people have been important too. I have told Jodi at least thrice that I loved her and she has wisely ignored me each time. I said the same thing about Matt tonight and his response is yet to be seen. (Tomk also said he loved Matt so I will probably be ignored in favor of the younger curly guy. He gets all the girls and maybe the boys too.)

I am reluctant to start naming more of the people I love and like for fear of missing some�it�s late and I am due in bed. You all I will continue to see and exchange posts with in one place or another. There are a lot of you.
So I thought it more fitting to say goodbye to a few of my adversaries (and if you get left out, well maybe you are just considered a friend---tough luck). Each of these that follow I have had one knock down drag out fight with�..

Gryphon, I don�t know where you come up with some of that�.nasty stuffffff�..so direct and at times mean. We share a connection with your home state and with some very important music. The last image here is dedicated to you. I wish I could wave a wand to take away your anger and sense of injustice�I think it plays a disproportionate role in your personality and gets in the way of what might be a very loving person, but I know the last thing you need is some amateur (albeit with a Masters) psychologist trying to figure you out. You have a beautiful family and I have no doubt that you and I could have a great four hours at a steakhouse getting to know one another. For each spiteful post you leave, you seem to pull another�God save us!

Larry, you are the toughest to address because there is all this other stuff with you and Kathyk that tries to color my relationship with you. No surprise there. Please know I speak for myself only. We are two people. You can be the meanest, most foul-mouthed, vindictive�.skip that part. Larry, the single most memorable and meaningful post for me on this board came from you a couple of Thanksgivings ago. I have never forgotten it and I have passed it on to others. More recently, I was touched with your comprehensive and helpful post to me about what to do in Atlanta�we saw the Pandas! While I found Stainweggie offensive at times, he was also the most comprehensive and consistent puppet on the forum (oh goodness�at least that I know of). You have talent and passion, and you have a temper. Get over the latter and you will be amazed at your success. I am not at all blind to your good (great) side. Let it shine. In any event, I wish you the best, I really do.

Jolly, the straight shooter, even when shooting from the hip. I envy your pension! But that is not here nor there. I have glimpses of a meaner Jolly before my time, but I have always respected your consistent and straightforward perspective (even if you don�t know your head from your *** when it comes to lawyers). You are what my ex-mother-in-law used to refer to as �real people.� Take away the most extreme 10% of your posts and you are practically�well�JBryan (and that is someone to emulate).

TomK, I have had a real ****fight with each of the above I think once but the best was with you when you refused to admit, in the face of overwhelming evidence and my clear accusation, that you were Improv. I have seen in the archives you used to be mean. At times, very mean. I have also seen that you have moved past that. As much as anyone here, you are the guy who makes me smile when I log in here. I wonder how the heck anyone as successful as you (pretend to be) can spend so much time here, but it doesn�t really matter. You really do light up the day and I marvel at the nonstop and never ending wit you throw out here.

I have not named all the people I am closest to. My liberal friends may shake their heads and�.worse�.that I am singling out those here, but I�..I don�t know. I don�t take all these pixels quite as seriously as some �and I kind of like the Wild West part of it all.

Funny, because I am about as not wild as they get. I am more into nice, for whatever that may be worth.

Too long. Time to end.

Bye and bygones. This has been a neat place and I look forward to being some part of whatever follows on some level, but it will be different. There is a lobster here with your name on it�each and every one of you who has been a part of the Coffee Room. Friend or (faux) foe. If you are nearby, just call or email and if you have not figured out my real contact info leave a post in Cindy�s place. I�ll greet you with a smile and a martini and introduce you to my lovely wife�.You�ll like her a lot�trust me.

This is my favorite time of the year in Maine. Every day I come home from work and if not too dark look carefully in the garden to see what is new and what has grown and what is coming. Every winter it all dies back and every spring most of it returns, along with some new surprises that weren�t there before. But there are always old friends in the garden who disappear. I mourn the loss, and after a few weeks plant something new in their place�.

I�ll be around a bit in one or more of the new places. I express thanks to Larry and Jgoo and Cindy for their great efforts to make a space for us to continue.

Happy Trails�



To you
Until we meet again.
Happy trails to you.
Keep smiling until then.
Happy trails to you�
Until we meeeeeet a � gaaaaiiinnnn�..

Dit�ditdo�duh duh duh duh duh��

Jf

I guess if you're going to Cindy's place I'll pop in, altho be forewarned I'm probably on the 'do not want' list.

I've always loved you Jack... you are so sweet and nice and understanding.. Kathy is lucky to have someone so nice to take care of her. see ya

I love you Jack. And I love your wife even more. (Lot's more actually.)

And I'm still mean--you've just gotten used to it.

I'll miss you.

Tom

I doubt that very much. I'll find ya.

jf

I don't think there's a "do not want" list. As a matter of fact, I'm 100% positive there isn't.

Come on over! Check it out!

I love you too, Jack. I love the whole lot of you weenies. This is so sad.

*sniff*

jodi

might see you there.

Jack I like you. Can't say that I get along KathyK though. Sorry.

But anyone who likes Danny Gatton is all right in my books.

Glad to hear it. One of my favorites. Best version of "Harlem Nocturne" ever.

I missed talking to plays - she was just leaving when I appeared. But I want to respond to plays earlier remark, "why should I come now if you didn�t want me before?" and now apple's similar speculation. Ain't no such beast as a "do not want list". For one thing, it's Cindy's baby, and she doesn't want to exclude anybody - never did. The exception ws back in November and December, when some of us were still in deep mourning. It's not her style. That's why she was here in the COffee Room so much trying to make it work.

But the next best thing for her, she figures - and for some like-minded people - would be the Coffee Room without the bitter grounds. All the diversity of ideas but no spitefulness between those who are ideological opponents. No empty partisanship either, may I add. Just the kind of discourse so that you can feel that if we were here in person (as well as spirit), we'd all be able and willing to shake hands at the end of any talk.

So for anyone on the fence about allegiance, please don't mistake political affiliation for membership in the forum Cindy started. I'm sure she'll bop any and all on the head from either side of the fence if they hit below the belt. And she's not squeamish. She won't act I'm sure, unless it's extreme.

As for the sensitive issue of exclusiveness...Our little Yahoo get together in a large cloak closet of a forum - I can understand people feeling left out. I'm sure if it HAD been open to all, you would have dropped by once out of curiosity to see the rusting folding chairs and broken down card tables, and then left of claustrophobia.

We left because - and you may not believe this - we didn't feel emotionally safe here. We wanted to talk about our ideas and concerns without fearing we were going to be ridiculed or have to keep checking our backs. This was especially when we were all DEEPLY depressed about the election results (we do have that right, true?). We wanted to be able to hash it over without all the tension.

For general discussion though, we know it can get inbred from too similar feedback. The same faces get boring. We LIKE a lively atmosphere.. just not a seriously angry one.

It's not that complicated. We aren't going to sell all the junk furniture there but we've been wishing right along we could return to the Coffee Room - just not the Coffee Jungle. Well, let's see what happens.

Anyhow, I hope you esteemed Coffee Drinkers, can consider that we REALLY want to talk about things in a group of mixed personalities and perspectives. But we don't want stone throwing - from either side. The supposition is that most people on the Forum, regardless of political affiliation, don't like it any more than we do.

Hope to see you at Cindy's place, at least for a visit. And if you don't care to, at least don't make that decision because you feel unwelcome. The opposite. We are actively trying to encourage a diverse turn out. The forum environment is politically neutral, scrupulously so.

Friendlily,

Ariel...

Plays, if you see this, this was written in large part to reply to your earlier comment.

well... too bad everyone just couldn't leave without all the complaining and leave this place to this wolves. Maybe it's for the best.

I didn't realize there was another!

jf

Gee, Ariel. That was spot-on. Thank you for that.

Back in November, I was deeply disappointed in the election results. I disappeared for a time, and when I surfaced, I received a few head shots in CR. I felt I needed to be left in peace.

That's all it was. I'm sorry that some felt excluded -- people whose company I greatly enjoy, actually. I just simply had to have some respite from the political stuff.

Apple, really, WellTemperedForum is open to everyone. It might not be to everyone's liking, but that's OK.

I missed Plays' comment -- it's been hectic, and there are so many posts now that I just didn't see it or I would have responded -- but Ariel is right there too. It hadn't even entered my mind that people would think the new group was intended to be for folks of just one political stripe. I can assure you that it is not.

In fact, I'm not sure whether I'll do much political talk there. I'm still a bit gunshy. Besides, I've been able to enjoy and develop friendships with folks like Jerry, Teachum and Markj (just to name a few) without the wedge of politics getting in the way. There's something to be said for that, but I don't know what my own personal policy about talking politics will be.

Right now I'm just enjoying the fresh country air.

So please. People should post wherever they want to post. It ain't a contest.

Now. . . .

I'll leave you all with this little confession:

I thought JF was black for the longest time!

And I think I remember the exact moment you discovered the truth....when Plays posted the photo of me in Improv's coming out thread??

jf

Jack's not black ?? So that explains how he tolerates the Maine winters. I found the reminiscence interesting.

I got out of the CR for a while when the heat got too high. I enjoy intelligent discussion even as an observer, but when things degenerate to diatribe, invective, and innuendo, I'd rather not be there. I hope in the new forums that politeness and civility are not mistaken for a lack of conviction and that we can converse as friends even if we disagree.

Big Al

If it makes you feel any better, Cindy, for the longest time I thought you were a cat.

Ariel writes:
The forum environment is politically neutral, scrupulously so.[/b]

Let me first say that I wish both Cindy and jgoo well. But the above statement is ridiculous. I read the posts so far on Cindy's forum, and Tomk is right - it's like Air America. It's nothing more than all the liberals trashing republicans. Your idea that what is being posted there is "politically neutral" points directly to one of the biggest problems we had on this forum - liberals who think the political discussion is neutral only when you're simply disagreeing on your level of liberalism.

I have not had time to post anywhere, not even on my forum. I am swamped right now. But I can tell you it is very obvious to me that neither me nor my viewpoints would be welcome on Cindy's forum. It is a utopian creation of what a certain group of liberals here tried to force this place to be - their views, and their views only.

And more than any nastiness, more than any argument, *that* is the biggest reason this place fell apart.

Larry, you are very wrong on that note. We already have (and have had, for the past six months) a vital little forum in which we express primarily liberal views, but a place do discuss only liberal views was never the point. Cindy explained this very well.

As this has played out, most of us have missed the opportunity to hash out the issues with other side. I, who swore I would never return here, missed it so much that I finally returned. Others refused to, and of those, I hope all will feel comfortable reemerging a one of the new forums.

I think the *real* difference is that the little group is not at all into trying convince any of anything, but just laying it out in the open, dissecting it, analyzing it and discussing it. There is no need to tear anyone down in the process, and this style of discourse turned most of us right off.

I thought that a lot of postive discussion was happening right here, as exemlified in the Shiavo threads, at least initially. I really relished having views contrary to mine presented in a civil and well thought out manner as Thumper and Bachophile did (those are the first two that pop into my head, and my no means the only ones). I can only speak for myself, but I would love to see these forums develop into a place where similar discussions can be had.

And looking through all three new fora, I don't even see enough politically-oriented threads or posts to even make a preliminary assessment. Looks like all three places are still more concerned with forum logistics and greeting than anything else. Give 'em some time before we haul out the nukes.

To my dear sweet JF, even if it might appear to be nepotistic, that was really a wonderful post. :2hearts:

Ah jeez... that could have been worded a little better.

I think he was thinking along the lines of a debutante. [hehe]

I don't know, what with you both having those hybrids.

Speaking of which, my next-door neighbor's Civic hybrid hit 50K last month. Three weeks ago, it required a new short block (scored piston). Then, the "transmission" went a week later (after 48 hours out of the shop). Then, yesterday, the very expensive computer died. So my neighbor is making up for all that gas he saved in extended warranty deductibles.

As in debutante (and not closet.)

jf

Ahahahaha!

Hey guys, who has the LINK to the "Improv Unmasked" thread (my working title for coming out thing ). I wanted to save it again, as I ... that is to say my computer ... had a meltdown some time ago.

Jack already reposted his "Hi, I'm new here, but I'd like to waste a complete FORTNIGHT of your time, anyway" thread, so I'm OK there.


Bob

Hey, RKVS1/Bob:

Where did you land? I need to know so I can continue my ruthless ambush snide commentary...

Search on * Mainers * Bob.

That's a very important question. I've enjoyed Bob's humor more than any here. I hope his standup routine is going on the road with us to our new dives.

I haven't submissived a formal letter of intent yet, but the WTF seems to be dominatrixing my thoughts, possible because of the possible range of web-Mistresses . unless Markjpcs camps there. For him, it just seems so much more instinctive.

I haven't decided leather or not . I'll participate in ALL the forums.



Bob