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Jolly said: Or at least adult enough to adopt the baby out to a couple who can.

My thoughts regarding "unplanned pregnancies" although of course there are some real surprises, from what I've seen more pregnancies(especially if the women are older & wanting a baby or have been in the relationship for quite a while &/or see no ring coming their way) are only unplanned by the men involved

Personally if one of our boys was very young & got a girl pregnant (we have talked to our older one, as Justme said, rolled eyes & all ), we would not push marriage, unless they were continuing to "knock the boots". First pregnancy especially as a teen, could be an accident, however if you keep doing the same thing, it could just happen again. Thus for the childs sake, time to grow up.

My thoughts, my 2c you may deserve change.

Mamma, we have boys as well. I've also talked to them about "not" pressuring girls into sex with all the "if you love me, you will" begging that goes on. Poor girls feel guilty whether they do or they don't. But, the 21 yr. old informs me the girls are more agressive than the guys.

How interesting that so many people place more credence in a nostalgic fantasy of what the past was like and in their belief of the way things SHOULD be rather than in statistics which show how things really are.

Why do people do that? Are their children that meaningless to them that they are willing to risk their future because of myths and propoganda rather than factual evidence?

Go on.... Tell us what you say to your kids.

You can access a fairly interesting study at NIH through PubMed, that compares illegitimate birth rates in the U.S., during the decades of the 40s and the 70s. One would expect the 40s to be quite high, because of the war situation, and God Forbid, we did not have sex education within the average classroom. I doubt we had sex education in the unusual classroom, either.

Funny thing happened on the way to the forum...the 70s rates were higher...a good deal higher.

Now, I'm all for nostalgia, and the old ways, when the old ways work. Apparently, something our grandparents were teaching their kids, was something that works better than what we are doing today.

And guess what, sport? Since more emphasis has been placed on abstinence education, rather than merely how to slide a condom on without tearing it, teenage birth rates have dropped in the latter 90s, and continue to do so today!

Yep, teenagers are teenagers, and things will happen. But it is a lot better for everyone, if it happens at a later time in their life, when they are more mature, and able to handle the consequences.

Nostalgia? Sounds to me like too many people are still stuck in the 60s, or in the hey-day of disco....

I teach them from an early age that sex is private, is an expression of love and is not an impersonal recreational activity. As they grow older, I give them more information about the risks involved and teach them abstinence is the moral and ethical choice. As they get older still, I teach themabout sexual urges and the need for self-discipline, about the damage that can be done from early sexual activity and about their responsibility if they should impregnate a young girl (I only have sons; all of whom are well into or past puberty), and about contraception, including how it works, why it works and the chances it will not work all the time.

I do not fear teaching them both morality as well as practical information. Do you?

What would give you that impression? Because I said my kids (well only one of them, the other was quite comfortable) rolled his eyes?

Therefore, would it be safe to assume that you are in favor of no governmental indoctrination in sexual mores at the K-12 level?

Please define for me "governmental indoctrination of sexual mores."

Loretta Lynn was a mother at 14 and a grandmother at 28.

Umm.. getting married and taking care of a baby have very little to do with one another.

Dang!! I was born about 20 years too early!!!

Now what's going on in the above paragraph..? I assume that the notorious sex scandal of Clinton's cost no lives.. unless you want to count the ones that could have lived if his sperm was allowed to meet an egg or two.

Now if you count the amount of viable sperm and assume they met up with viable eggs, maybe 10,000 would be dead if they were aborted.... and then the number of lives lost because of the lack of liberal sex education would have to be determined...

(other than than paragraph :rolleyes: it's a great paper)

Be happy to.

When what the government tells your child over-rides, or is in conflict with what should be personal decisions made by the child's parents, within the confines of one's residence.

Squaring that with the original proposal of this thread, and abstinence, since abstinence is not against any general societal more, or major religion that I can think of, it may be the only governmental program that could pass the above standard.

But, in the context of this thread, Loretta was not pregnant when she married. Or, at least that's what she told me.

I could check I guess, but I believe her...

Uh, they should have.

Which, is the point of much of this thread.....

I don't understand. Give me an example of a widespread government policy where the government is teaching personal decisions that the child is expected to make when it comes to sexual activity.

Or are you simply arguing that schools should not provide information the parents do not give their children? This, of course, occurs in all sorts of academic fields, and thus is very common.

RZ:

You know d*mn well that for years the liberals were foisting contraception on kids in schools to the objections of parents. Abstinence was a non starter for the policy wonks. Everything happening today is because the people of the US got fed up with the liberal agenda that many Americans found morally offensive.

You also know that your argument about schools providing information is a straw man -- whether a parent is capable of teaching technical information such as the Table of Elements is not a rationale for showing a 13 year old how to put a condom on a banana in a class demonstration.

The numbers prove it :p .