Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum FAQ - Piano Forum Very Low Mileage, Like new, Hardly used at all ...

Originally posted by Christopher James Quinn:
Thanks, Chris. I bought my Baldwin L at a local dealer. The story was that it had been an estate sale acquisition. It was in pretty crummy shape internally: action was way out of regulation, needed tuning badly, chipped ivory keys, hammers needed replacing, etc. (Sound board was OK.) But I bought it on the recommendation of my tech, who knew what my price range was, and he convinced me he could turn it into a top-notch piano. (He did!) Even with all the work my tech did, my total cost was *far below* $20000. As in several thousand below. For that, I got:

- New key tops (not ivory)
- New key bushings
- New hammers (Abel)
- Complete regulation
- Extensive voicing
- New bass strings (only the bottom 8)
- and lots of little things I can't remember.

The piano is about 37 years old. I'm very happy with the sound.

So if you're willing to buy a piano that is kinda beat up, and you can trust a competent tech who tells you he can make it into something you'll really like, you can end up with a real gem.

Chris

READ: shop for a tech before you shop for a piano like this. Chris W's piano probably required more work than I was thinking about when I started this thread, but his results were very satisfying. Personally, I would not have the courage for something like this, perferring a piano that was "there" already, but if we're talking about bargains, maybe this is the way for the more sophisticated. I recently saw a mid 80s L which needed some going over, maybe bushings and action work. BUt the piano was $7k as is. A trade-in.

Ok, my turn.

~4 year old August Förster 190 -> ~20k before taxes, from a dealer.

It needed some regulation work and key easing which I paid my tech to do, but basically was as good as new as after that. A chip or two on the corner of the lid were fixed before delivery, almost can;t find it now.

BTW, both my, and Chris W's pianos can be seen in this thread:

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8765/1.html

There are some excellent slightly used European pianos that can be had for under 20K.
While only a few years old, and up to 20 years old, they will represent an outstanding value.
The problem is that it’s hard to FIND pianos like this.
One usually have to spend a lot of time searching.

It's possible to find good used 6' pianos in the USA for ca. $20K, particularly if you're looking for the relatively common brands -- Yamahas, Kawais, Baldwins, and the smaller Steinways & Mason Hamlins. The challenge is separating the wheat from the chaff. It takes patience and a willingness to extend your search beyond (maybe well beyond) your normal stomping grounds if you don't live in a major metropolitan area.

If you have your heart set on a top tier European piano, I believe it would be more fruitful to do your shopping there. Particularly if you're looking for a piano that's being sold privately (not by a dealer).

To be successful, you've got to know what you want, find the right opportunity, and have your finances squared away in order react. You also need the proper mix of decisiveness, caution, and knowledge.

The only way to build your knowledge base on pianos is to play enough new and used ones to know what good is when you play it. You also need to learn as much as you can about pianos in terms of maintenance and servicing so you can identify obvious problems without hiring a tech. You also need to know a good tech that can inspect the piano once you think you've found it. In other words it takes significant effort but it can be done.

JP

Ivorythumper: It cost me ca. 2400 Euro to hard-crate & air freight my piano from Frankfurt, Germany to Washington DC. It would cost considerably less to ship by sea in a container ... but that comes with more risk of damage and a longer shipment time. You also need to consider import duties, taxes, and insurance and most importantly right now ... the exchange rate.

Keith at Piano Craft makes a really nice Maestoso for way under 20K. I have been playing it now for a week and I just got back from my piano class where my teacher has a Steinway M. The bass on Keith's piano is much deeper and more powerful and there was no difference between the actions.

If you count the hours Kieth and Shawn played on it while they were getting it ready for shipping, then I guess you could count it as used! I have just run into so much junk I would be very hesitant to purhcase someone else's problem they never maintained.

David

I'm the happy owner of a used C7. It's older than your preferred 10 years--more like 20 years--but it's in much better shape than a typical piano of that age, according to my technician, who checked it out before I committed myself. My teacher, who's a Baldwin owner, pronounced its tone "warm and mellow." And it was enough under $20,000 to leave a little money on the table for tweaking, if it needs some down the road.

I've had it for five months now, and it seems to play even better now than when I fell in love with it. Or maybe I'm just playing a bit better now...

Mary Anna
http://www.maryannaevans.com

I have no input on particular pianos, but I have found two things:

1. If you find a white piano and you like the looks of it, you can generally negotiate a killer deal. They're slow movers, so it really doesn't matter what they're asking for it. Bide your time and you could have quite a nice piano for less than might be expected.

2. Remarkable deals on used pianos can often be found in retirement communities.

Good point Steve. I'll broaden this to say that a piano with any cosmetic issues will likely be worth less than the same piano without them. IT's entirely possible that a well maintained instrument has been less well maintained in the purely cosmetic sense.

(slightly off topic: new pianos with 'odd' finishes may sit for years in a showroom somewhere as well, and may offer a great bargain)

Here's an ad that you think you would occasionally see (but never do) in the local newspaper, pennysaver, greensheet, or eBay:

Hello. I recently lost my grandmother and inherited her furnished home. I'm selling the furniture which includes a grand piano, black, really big. Name on piano something like Borendozer, can't remember exactly; had some funny dots over the letters I think. Looks to be in perfect condition but has an odd shape, not round on the end. I think she bought it new about 5 - 10 years ago. Asking $5000 or best offer.

I don't know the situation in the US, but my impression is that Steinway and Bösendorfer are two brands that I would avoid buying used. Not because these are bad pianos but because every owner of these pianos seems to think that his "30-year-old-got-last-tuning-10-years-ago" Steinway or Bösendorfer is still worth $30K or more. There may be exceptions, but this was my experience.

Other top-brands like Bechstein, Grotrian, Förster, or Blüthner can be bought for much less.

One interesting but risky variant is to buy an older piano in need of a big repair. If you add the cost of the repair to the price, you can sometimes get an excellent piano for very little money. I'd recommend this option only if the buyer has enough time and experience to do this, though.

Klaus

I am interested in what you are talking about-- I visited the Piano Craft website and could not find anything about a Maestoso.

Steve

Look for David's recent post "Thanking Keith.."

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8883.html

Posted by seebechstein:
Funny… but it is also raising a good point.
This ad is never seen for a reason.
When people inherit a piano and think it may have some value they will usually call some local dealers first.
What the dealers are willing to pay, is the value of the piano for them.
Dealers have to take few things into account.
The amount of work/money that it will take in order to put this piano into a “showroom” condition (showroom condition may greatly vary from one dealer to another). The cost of the moves, cost/risk of providing a warranty and the service that they will have to offer to the customer that will buy it from them.

Sometimes, the person that is trying to sell their piano is happy with the amount that is offered to her by several dealers, and sells the piano to one of them. Usually, there will not be a great difference between dealers as they know the value of the instruments.

Other times, the person is unhappy with the quotes they got and are trying to sell it privately.
They will usually try to get more than a few hundred $ then what the dealer is willing to pay.
I have seen many times pianos that no dealer was willing to pay more then 7K for, being offered privately for 15K or even 20K by the seller.
Sometimes people do very good buying privately, other times they do not.
But they will almost ALWAYS pay substantially more then a dealer for the same piano. If work is needed, it will cost them a lot more than it will cost the dealer (as the dealer will get wholesale prices or will do the work himself or in his factory).

So I usually recommend for those looking to buy pianos privately to stick to pianos that are not too old(less then 20 years if possible) and if they find something that they think is interesting, have it inspected by a tech.

A 5 yo Bosie for 10K?
Forget it, the sealers will buy it before it will get to the paper.

Great thread -- Now I'll have to add the Maestoso to my search list...

I'll have to figure a way to get out to Maryland..

--Steve

***Bump***

Any more empirical info to add to this?

One more thing... ask your tech if he/she knows of any good private pianos that are likely to be sold.

They will have had good first-hand knowledge of the condition of the piano itself, and often are one of the first to know when an owner is going to sell. They sometimes get called in for appraisals in estate sales as well--I know my tech does. It may be possible to go see and buy a piano that never officially enters the market.

I also have a friend who was able to buy a good Steinway from a music prof here. Turns out the school was going to "recycle" (for lack of a better term) all the pianos in the music school. We all think of the practice pianos, but faculty studio pianos are also often swapped out. The piano would have been sold in one of those ubiquitous "university sales" jobbies that are such a nightmare. In this case, my friend spoke earlier to another member of the music department, who in turn passed her name on when the pianos were due to go on sale. She did buy it during the sale, but it had already been earmarked for her.