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#917227 - 04/10/07 08:26 AM Re: Obama or McCain or... ?
whippen boy Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 3886
Loc: San Francisco
A friend had a little accident while visiting France. An ambulance picked him up and he received a few stitches and maybe some x-rays.

$40.[/b]

I do a bit of tour-guiding in France, and occasionally have to take a tourist to the doctor or pharmacist. I remember one time when someone forgot their perscription medicine. Even though it was a generic it was outrageously expensive in the US, and the fellow was worried he wouldn't be able to afford it even if we did find it. We were surprised to find the same medicine (but not[/b] generic!) available over the counter, and very cheap.
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Grotrian 225
S&S Hamburg-C
M&H "A" at home

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#917228 - 04/10/07 04:29 PM Re: Obama or McCain or... ?
U S A P T Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 1645
Loc: An Indiana University
_________________________
Full-Time Music/Entrepreneurship Major: (Why not compose music AND businesses?)
Former Piano Industry Professional
************
Steinway M
Roland Atelier AT90R
************
All Posts are Snarky Unless Otherwise Noted
************

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#917229 - 04/11/07 08:34 PM Re: Obama or McCain or... ?
Eternal Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/21/06
Posts: 1285
Loc: Posts: 80,372
There is NO such thing as free health care. Anyone that tries to tell you that is either a liar or ignorant. Ultimately the money comes from your pocket - but you are now paying not only for yourself, but for those that are worse off. Not to mention all the additional costs of bureaucratic wealth re-distribution. The person that mentioned $40 bill in France - you wouldn't be so happy if you were the French taxpayer who helped you pay that bill...

The following is just a few links that show "socialized medicine" for what it really is - another utopian idea, from the people that never learn:
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"A Short Course in Brain Surgery"
 Quote:

[Video] This astounding 5-minute video tells the story of an Ontario man with a brain tumor who couldn't get the care he needed under the Canadian system because the waiting lists for an MRI scan and for a neurosurgeon were too long. Fortunately, he was able to get appropriate treatment in Buffalo, NY.
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. Universal Health Coverage --- Call It Socialized Medicine
[Online essay] Lawrence Huntoon, MD, PhD, discusses why "universal health care" is synonymous with "socialized medicine". He also observes:
 Quote:

Indeed, "universal coverage," nationalized health care, or socialized medicine, regardless of what you choose to call it, is not the same as medical care. All of the citizens of Canada, for instance, have "universal coverage." What they often don't have, however, is the medical care that they need when they need it. That is why we see Canadians crossing the border into the United States in droves to obtain the health care that they can't get when they need it in their own country. Their government rations access to health care and thus attempts to control costs by making MRI scans, radiation oncology, bypass surgeries and many other health services largely unavailable to their own people.
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"Why Are Health Costs Rising?"
 Quote:

[Online article] A nice short analysis on why health care costs have risen so much. Again, the basic problem is government interference in normal market mechanisms. As anyone who has bought a cell phone or a DVD player recently knows, the natural course of the marketplace is higher quality goods for lower prices over time. Even in the medical field, this has been the pattern in LASIK and cosmetic surgery, i.e., in the types of medical care where patients pay for themselves and are therefore incentivized to be prudent shoppers.

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#917230 - 04/12/07 12:59 AM Re: Obama or McCain or... ?
U S A P T Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 1645
Loc: An Indiana University
_________________________
Full-Time Music/Entrepreneurship Major: (Why not compose music AND businesses?)
Former Piano Industry Professional
************
Steinway M
Roland Atelier AT90R
************
All Posts are Snarky Unless Otherwise Noted
************

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#917231 - 04/12/07 10:05 AM Re: Obama or McCain or... ?
Eternal Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/21/06
Posts: 1285
Loc: Posts: 80,372
PianoTrucker - I'm not calling you stupid - just the people who think money grows on trees.

 Quote:

I wish the Libertarian view could work, but it doesn't because of democracy.
I'd say it's more because of igorance, but then again - there's not much to be said about a system where 2 idiots have more power than 1 noble prize winner...


 Quote:

your ideal works best when leaders aren't corrupted and bought off or using their office to line their pockets. Sadly, in this country and in england especially, such is not the case these days.
Actually it's just the opposite. Politicians are being lobbied by bussiness. What's good for the bussiness is usualy good for the country and citizens. When economy is strong, everybody benefits. The real problem are populist politicians. That kind gets votes by promising people free healthcare, more welfare etc.(conveniently skirting the issue of higher taxes). They love nothing more than spending other people's money.

Industry lobbysts are a necessary evil, because they counter populists' ludicrous demands.
If populists had their way, we'd be all living in Soviet Union type countries right now...

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#917232 - 04/12/07 05:58 PM Re: Obama or McCain or... ?
U S A P T Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 1645
Loc: An Indiana University
_________________________
Full-Time Music/Entrepreneurship Major: (Why not compose music AND businesses?)
Former Piano Industry Professional
************
Steinway M
Roland Atelier AT90R
************
All Posts are Snarky Unless Otherwise Noted
************

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#917233 - 04/13/07 01:30 PM Re: Obama or McCain or... ?
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by NikolaTesla:
The communist health care plan is just part of an agenda to phase in the big brother verichip system... [/b]
an universal health care plan doesn't have to coincide with the communist one, and therefore, it's pointless to mention that.

the key of a sucessful universal health care system, as i believe, must be a minimum coverage system (which means no knee surgery, heart surgery or anything beyond the bare minimum medical needs), or else no government can either afford it or we'd all have to pay like 40-50% income tax to cover it. anything beyond minimum coverage will be optional for people with additional insurance.

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#917234 - 04/13/07 01:36 PM Re: Obama or McCain or... ?
U S A P T Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 1645
Loc: An Indiana University
_________________________
Full-Time Music/Entrepreneurship Major: (Why not compose music AND businesses?)
Former Piano Industry Professional
************
Steinway M
Roland Atelier AT90R
************
All Posts are Snarky Unless Otherwise Noted
************

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#917235 - 04/13/07 07:50 PM Re: Obama or McCain or... ?
rickb119 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 174
Loc: Greeley, CO
I'm all for social programs that help people that cannot otherwise help themselves. What scares me about socialized medicine is that it's one more welfare program that the government will be in charge of. I can't remember the exact quote (or who said it) but it goes something like this, "A government big enough to give you everything you need is also big enough to take away everything you want".
_________________________
Rickb

I'm a real pussycat, until provoked.

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#917236 - 04/13/07 07:57 PM Re: Obama or McCain or... ?
Eternal Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/21/06
Posts: 1285
Loc: Posts: 80,372
From the sources I presented it's clear that socialized medicine will lead to shortages - and eventually government rationing. It's not just some pie-in-the-sky theory - it happens every time socialists try to present us with workers' paradise on earth. If all of a sudden you made all plasma TV's free - you'd end up with no TVs in stores the next day.
 Quote:

I'd think that univerersal coverage would spawn a creative frenzy in the USA as people leave corporate co-pay cubicles to realize their dreams.
Or they'd end up having to work twice as many hours to make the ends meet after paying all the extra taxes that pay for "free" healthcare...

USAPianotTrucker - we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one, unless you can provide me with some compelling evidence that socialism can somehow outperform free market economy. History has shown time and time again it can't.

As far as war in Iraq - I don't remember sharing my views on it in this thread. And you seem to assume that just because I'm anti-socialism, I'm in pro-Bush camp. Like I stated before - my political views are most closely aligned to Libertarian way of thinking. In other words - I hate commie Democrats, just as much as I despise fundie Republicans. The former don't understand separation of economy and state, while the latter just can't accept separation of church and state.

With 20/20 hindsight, it should be obvious to anyone, that we have no business there. If anything I'd be much more concerned about Iran. And when it comes to terrorism - the first step in fighting it is throwing out political correctness bull-crap. We are not fighting terrorists - we're fighting Islamic fundamentalists, and Saddam of all people was doing a great job keeping those nuts in check.

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#917237 - 04/13/07 07:59 PM Re: Obama or McCain or... ?
U S A P T Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 1645
Loc: An Indiana University
_________________________
Full-Time Music/Entrepreneurship Major: (Why not compose music AND businesses?)
Former Piano Industry Professional
************
Steinway M
Roland Atelier AT90R
************
All Posts are Snarky Unless Otherwise Noted
************

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#917238 - 04/13/07 08:27 PM Re: Obama or McCain or... ?
rickb119 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 174
Loc: Greeley, CO
Hate is not a family value.

Did I miss something?

I hate things that are evil, but according to most of the lefties I know, there is no evil. After all, the 9-11 terrorists were just misguided, don't ya know?
_________________________
Rickb

I'm a real pussycat, until provoked.

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#917239 - 04/14/07 03:19 PM Re: Obama or McCain or... ?
U S A P T Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 1645
Loc: An Indiana University
_________________________
Full-Time Music/Entrepreneurship Major: (Why not compose music AND businesses?)
Former Piano Industry Professional
************
Steinway M
Roland Atelier AT90R
************
All Posts are Snarky Unless Otherwise Noted
************

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#917240 - 04/14/07 03:44 PM Re: Obama or McCain or... ?
rickb119 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 174
Loc: Greeley, CO
:rolleyes:
_________________________
Rickb

I'm a real pussycat, until provoked.

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#917241 - 05/18/07 05:24 PM Re: Obama or McCain or... ?
brummell Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 143
Loc: Illinois
My vote goes to anyone other than a Republican. I've had enough of them to last a lifetime.

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#917242 - 05/19/07 05:39 AM Re: Obama or McCain or... ?
brummell Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 143
Loc: Illinois
Amen, jsalzer!

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#917243 - 12/26/07 05:56 PM Re: Obama or McCain or... ?
cothse Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 31
 Quote:
Originally posted by Mark737:
No matter who gets elected, we will be in better hands... [/b]
No argument here.
_________________________
Piano Lessons with Master Teachers

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#917244 - 12/28/07 11:10 PM Re: Obama or McCain or... ?
vayapues Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 103
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Tuning Jedi in Training:
Oh, my choice?

Condoleeza Rice. Smart, educated, pianist, and beautiful to boot. I doubt she'll run though. [/b]
Here Here. She would be wonderful. Someday if we are so lucky.

Hoping for Romney, but then again, that is easy to understand. Look down at where I am from.

Would also really like to see McCain. Actually, a McCain Leberman ticket would be my first choice.
_________________________
There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary numbers, and those who don't.

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#917245 - 04/17/08 07:57 PM Re: Obama or McCain or... ?
P I A N O piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 425
Loc: Ann Arbor, Michigan
oh jeepers I have election fatigue already!
_________________________
Chopin, Polonaise in C sharp minor, Etude in E major;
Bach, Toccata in e minor BWV 914;
Debussy, Snow is Dancing;
Schubert, Moments Musicaux,No.4 in C Sharp Minor;
Beethoven, Sonata no. 15 in D major, op. 28 (Pastoral)
teacher: Katherine Teves Mizruchi, Ann Arbor, MI
Steinway B

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#917246 - 04/23/08 06:40 AM Re: Obama or McCain or... ?
huami Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 59
Loc: byron bay, australia
Hi, - new here & clicking around to see wot's up.

I am Australian. Hubby is an ex-pat american living in Oz.

Today we watched Obama's speech after losing the Penn. primary. You know i always thought i favoured him over Clinton, but after todays speech, and comparing it to Hilary's waffle - i have to say that my favor has turn to deep admiration. I think the man is brilliant. He gave me goosebumps listening today. He is in the same league as the best of the best.

i belive in him. I think he really cares. I think he is determined to put America back in favour with the rest of the world after the damage that Bush has done. I believe his youthfulness with inspire the youth of America. I believe he is a doer & not just a talker.

I believed the same of our new Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd - and i ws right. In only a few short months in office, he has done so much, so wonderfully, and so quickly already.

They both have the energy & drive to make a difference, and the determination to put into place measures that will make our countries a better place to live for all.

and that's my two bobs worth. \:D

PS - i also wish the rest of the allied world had a vote in american elections. Why? - because you are such a powerful force that your foreign policy decisions effect us all.

However, i do think Hilary could turn things around also - i just do not trust her personal agenda like i do Obama's.

one more thing. I think Obama's multicultural experiences - and his broadmindedness, is an excellent plus for foreign policy making.
_________________________
tricia

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#917247 - 04/24/08 03:34 AM Re: Obama or McCain or... ?
Secondo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 312
Loc: Seattle, Washington
Obama
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Baldwin SF-10 320152, Marshall & Wendell, Steinway B

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#917248 - 04/24/08 08:44 AM Re: Obama or McCain or... ?
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3553
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
As a libertarian I believe in and support freedom and liberty, the smallest, least intrusive government, the free markets and world peace - and the one great political concept that makes it all possible: Individual Rights.

The only candidate who consistently believes in all of these things AND talks about them AND bases his policy positions on them is Ron Paul.

Regards, JF
_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Current favorite bumper sticker: Wag more, bark less.

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