Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
#917706 - 03/21/07 11:36 AM Re: Snotty musicians who act like their genre is the only "real" music
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8828
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
 Quote:
Originally posted by Reaper978:
I've always guessed that Pavarotti was a classically trained tenor, so I have a feeling he can read music and very well at that.
I wouldn't put money on that. I think he learned his music pretty much by rote.
_________________________
Jason

Top
Piano & Music Acc. / Sheet Music


Sheet Music Plus Homepage
#917707 - 03/22/07 04:20 PM Re: Snotty musicians who act like their genre is the only "real" music
pianoid Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 314
Loc: somewhere in the space-time co...
 Quote:
Originally posted by phonehome:

Music is organized sound.
[/b]
Tell that to chance composers who want all but randomly disorganized sounds to be called music. :p

 Quote:
Originally posted by phonehome:

Rap music is the current stop on a road made up of West African ritualistic shouts, African American spirituals and ringshouts, ragtime, jazz, R&B, be-bop, rock and roll (which at first differed from R&B only because of its marketing) and cool jazz.
[/b]
So, it seems it has come a full circle:

African ritualistic shouts -> African American spirituals and ringshouts -> ragtime -> jazz -> R&B -> be-bop (high point!) -> cool jazz -> rock and roll (descending) -> rap (shouts and ritualist drums).

\:\)

 Quote:
Originally posted by phonehome:

To say that rap isn't music is to say that African music, in general, is not music, because they share the same basic qualities which include syncopated rhythms, call and response, and audience participation (dancing along can be considered participation).
[/b]
So, it's wrong to say a son is ugly because his parents are beautiful, even though the brat is indeed ugly? Please, don't generalize: there are many good african descended music, which rap isn't.

The most distinctive feature of african music is its heavily syncopated rhythm and percussive nature. Problem is: rhythm is a feature not only of music, but also of poetry (literature), dance, cinema and many other "timeflowed" arts.

What makes music music is when there's at least melody lines involved, when there's pitch variation involved. So, African ritualist shouts and syncopated rhythms are no more music than a bunch of birds randomly calling their mates. Like any other primitive music efforts from all over the world, BTW.

It was only when African-Americans took ahold of centuries-old refined european musical instruments and common-practice harmonic rules, and then bent them to suit their expression needs that we had the germ of much of 20th century music.

If I'm sounding imperialist or colonialist, sorry, that's not what I mean. What I mean is that music improved from the fusion of old primitive african traditions and the then still relatively modern tonal practice that took europeans some 2 centuries to perfect.

And then, close to the end of the 20th century, the beginning of this one, we are going back once again: to shouts and hollow tree drums being beaten ragely.
_________________________
gggEb!

Top
#917708 - 03/22/07 07:22 PM Re: Snotty musicians who act like their genre is the only "real" music
PerformingYak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 205
Loc: Lightning Ridge, Australia
 Quote:
Originally posted by Reaper978:


Though I'm not sure who you're referring to in your message, is it Clapton who can't read music or Pavarotti? I've always guessed that Pavarotti was a classically trained tenor, so I have a feeling he can read music and very well at that. [/b]
I was referring to Pavarotti. It was a huge piece of news a few years back but washed over pretty quickly when people realised "hey, the guy can't read music but he's still AWESOME"

as for the ability to read, maybe it was just the way it came across... words written down don't always have the right tone:)
_________________________
"Work hard and strive to reach the power of bland"

Top
#917709 - 03/22/07 07:26 PM Re: Snotty musicians who act like their genre is the only "real" music
PerformingYak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 205
Loc: Lightning Ridge, Australia
By the way, I bow out of this arguement/ conversation/ whatever you want to call it.... I find it useless when everyone here (including myself )is coming across with their own views but not getting anywhere in broadening anyone elses opinions. While there is a lot more to say on the subject it is getting very repetative.

Catch you in another discussion
_________________________
"Work hard and strive to reach the power of bland"

Top
#917710 - 03/23/07 05:37 AM Re: Snotty musicians who act like their genre is the only "real" music
JBiegel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 850
It started as a plea for people of all genres to be sympathetic and accepting of other musician's genres. That isn't asking too much--but it won't happen all of the time to everyone's liking, so we learn to accept everyone for who they are and give them the space to be who they are. I always say, if you don't like something about someone or what they've said, it's not your problem, it's theirs. You can't change people nor their views--and should survey your own thoughts, likes and dislikes without bestowing them on everyone around you unless asked--and even then, with great discretion.
_________________________
www.jeffreybiegel.com

Top
#917711 - 03/23/07 09:50 AM Re: Snotty musicians who act like their genre is the only "real" music
Frank_W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/10/06
Posts: 1047
Loc: United States
Sage advice, JBiegel.
_________________________
Compassion, Love, Strength, Peace, Dignity, Balance, Order

Top
#917712 - 03/25/07 01:59 PM Re: Snotty musicians who act like their genre is the only "real" music
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
Those who found this post of interest may want to check this post out:

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/2/14537.html#000000
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

Top
#917713 - 03/25/07 06:35 PM Re: Snotty musicians who act like their genre is the only "real" music
phonehome Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/06
Posts: 921
"Tell that to chance composers who want all but randomly disorganized sounds to be called music."

I would still consider chance music to be organized in a sense.

Top
#917714 - 03/27/07 10:04 AM Re: Snotty musicians who act like their genre is the only "real" music
wisredz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 115
This is something I think about a lot. Please do not take anything I write personally it is my view on music.

I adore classical music, I think it is the pinaccle of creativity and beauty. I respect those who perform classical music, teach it, practice it as a hobby, or simply listen to it.

I used to play guitar and got quite good at it (that's what people tell me, I'm not an arrogant person). As expected, I listened to a lot of rock and blues and jazz, listened to a lot of virtuosos and the like. They are very creative people with a really good understanding of music. (Steve Vai, Stevie Ray Vaughan, BB King, Albert Collins etc)

I won't discuss whether rap is music or not, but it does tax one's creativity. There was a time when I listened to Eminem's Marshall Mathers LP really much and I still do if I get in the mood. He is a creative person and uses his creative powers in what way he can express himself.

Each people likes certain kinds of music and that's fine. But as long as music is done for music's sake, not for money's, I respect the musician, though I may not like his music.

Top
#917715 - 04/12/07 05:07 PM Re: Snotty musicians who act like their genre is the only "real" music
phonehome Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/06
Posts: 921
[/qb][/QUOTE]Tell that to chance composers who want all but randomly disorganized sounds to be called music. :p

It's still organized on a page, isn't it?

Top
#917716 - 04/12/07 05:32 PM Re: Snotty musicians who act like their genre is the only "real" music
U S A P T Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 1645
Loc: An Indiana University
After a week of delivering pianos and motorcycles all over the west I'd come home and get on my bike and ride down the to the Las Vegas strip and park in front of Bellagio and watch the fountains.

It was the most beautiful spectacle and between shows you could think about all the amazing musicians who played in studios and studied hard. The singers, the water choreographers, the engineers and designers who put it all together and the millions who flock to see it each year.

Sarah Brightman, Whitney Houston, Andreas Bocelli and all the other people whose art could so effectively be put to water and light.

OR

Some cluck would walk by in a polyester hawaiian shirt and a fanny pack and say "How tacky."


Whitney Singing Star Spangled Banner

Bocelli Brightman duet

Paganini Theme
_________________________
Full-Time Music/Entrepreneurship Major: (Why not compose music AND businesses?)
Former Piano Industry Professional
************
Steinway M
Roland Atelier AT90R
************
All Posts are Snarky Unless Otherwise Noted
************

Top
#917717 - 04/22/07 09:24 PM Re: Snotty musicians who act like their genre is the only "real" music
Bryan P. Carney Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 148
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio, US
Hmm, I didn't know these forums were active. I just want to add my two cents:

I listen to music to get high and to take me away from mundania. If music has no aesthetic value to me, I ignor it.

I can get high off of any music. I especially get high when I am in the act of making music. I don't give a damn about other people or their level of enjoyment. The rules of music are there to facilitate uninterrupted ecstacy.

Ever beat drums in the woods or on a plain, around a fire, only to marvel at the beautiful, naked, humans gyrating to some universal beat? Would propriety prohibit you?

Currently, I am in a mode of exposing myself to what we call classical music, through the piano, and, of course, marvel at the desert that is popular music. I once played hand drums with the same zeal. I once wrote poetry with the same zeal.

Some people just hate to cop to hedonism, to humanity. Yes, that is a value judgement.
_________________________
=====================
nil volentibus arduum
Do it for Fux' sake.
=====================

Top
#917718 - 04/27/07 11:28 AM Re: Snotty musicians who act like their genre is the only "real" music
U S A P T Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 1645
Loc: An Indiana University
I am always wary of those who see their preference as the only valid one.
_________________________
Full-Time Music/Entrepreneurship Major: (Why not compose music AND businesses?)
Former Piano Industry Professional
************
Steinway M
Roland Atelier AT90R
************
All Posts are Snarky Unless Otherwise Noted
************

Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
Our latest Issue is available now...
Piano News - Interesting & Fun Piano Related Newsletter! (free)
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
125 registered (AndresD, AndrewJCW, 36251, Allard, 36 invisible), 1371 Guests and 19 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75602 Members
42 Forums
156330 Topics
2295976 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Schimmel DUO piano
by wimpiano
08/01/14 08:56 AM
Feurich 190 cm grand from 1920 - Is it any good?
by pinkfloydhomer
08/01/14 08:16 AM
Who's gigging with MP11
by 36251
08/01/14 07:45 AM
piano technician cost list
by ascc
08/01/14 01:36 AM
Roland RD800 initial impressions
by fizikisto
08/01/14 12:28 AM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission