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Just an OT question.....

I'm new to this forum, so maybe I've overlooked some general (unwritten?) rule. Is it the case that I'm not allowed to respond in this topic because I'm not a teacher?
If that's so, then I'm sorry for the interference, I was merely reacting on the question of TS about stagefright/explanations from members in the academic communtiy.

Have a nice day!

Chaplin

We had a big discussion about this a while ago, Chaplin, and I think the decision we came to was that everyone is welcome, but if you're answering a question addressed to teachers, you probably should indicate that you're not a teacher, just to make things clear. Someone else can correct me if necessary, but from memory that's where I thought we ended up.


Have a nice day!
Chaplin

You too!

John, maybe you folks are getting tired of me stating what I see as the obvious. You don't perceive time in the same sense you perceive a table. You add the time dimension to help make sense of chaos. As time is a construct of the mind there are not two 'edges'. You have no need to flounder. The phenomenon is clear and well documented and it is a single phenomenon - in flight/fight your time construct becomes 'super acute'.

It sure does sound an awful lot like my last recital....

theJourney & John,
I do think that this is exactly what happens in stage fright for many, although some have symptoms prior to performing and once they're on stage, it goes away. There are various levels to which a person would have this as well. As I have overcome this problem for myself, however, I still always get the loss of sense of time. Perhaps this is just normal, as I'm not on autopilot and am aware of what I'm doing, what comes next, etc., and am calm when I'm "in the moment." If adrenaline causes this, then perhaps to a lesser degree this is what I'm encountering, but I do not feel it is a problem as it's not debilitating or causing any problems in the performance.

I don't think Tachypsychia is stage-fright. I've experienced the symptoms described by Tachypsychia twice:

First time was when I fell through a roof although it wasn't complete life threatening the time did slow down so I could think of grabbing a beam and letting me slowly fall down. So I did not injure my self it was almost as if I did plan to do so. People that did see it happen didn't understand how I did react so quickly and for me it was like I had all the time in the world to think it over and adjust my body.

The second time was when I was on a diving board (spring board?) 3 meters high and was planning on doing a back somersault. I lost my balance and was falling with my back towards the water. That was life threatening because if you fall from 3 meters on your back (longs) the air will be gone and you might black-out and drown. Again the time did slow down and it was like I had all the time in the world to determine what to do. I remember to kick my leg in the air so my body would make a turn and at the last second above the water I did so and with a nice dive I got in the water. People that saw that where sure I would fall flat on the water on my back.

I have had a little stage fright as well performing for others. But the main difference is that in stage fright the time didn't slow down to think. It was just that it did look like the performance did take forever. Like when listening to a boring conference or waiting for a bus. The perception of time is then altered by the fact you focusing on time instead of what you are doing. With tachypsychia the time goes slow but you don't focus on the time you focus on your situation.

That are my experiences.

The symptoms you're describing are part of a group of symptoms which occure during an anxiety/panic attack (mostly the same symptoms will be experienced in any case of an anxiety disorder.) If you're interesting in possibilities to overcome (=solve of improve) 'stage freight', merely a discussion about symptoms and comparing symptoms will not do the 'trick'. In a previous post I have already explained that stage freight is a specific form of social phobia, nicely tucked away under the big umbrella: Anxiety Disorders. Evidence-based practice to treat this kind of problems it is a cognitive behaviour therapy program.

(By the way, no, I'm not a teacher so feel free to exclude me for that reason from the discussion in this topic, but this particular professional area has been/still is my 'core business' over the last two decades.. .)

I’m off to practise!
Have a nice day
from Chaplin

I think that these two things can be used in a couple of ways, and it is part of what I was trying to get at earlier. The key is what you are focusing on. In the adventures you describe, a crisis triggered a behaviour - that of focusing in a very detailed way on events (visual etc. input) as they were occurring and responding physically to those events. Time expanded to make room for both the observation (focus) and the precise response (focus again) in minute detail within the second. You can almost imagine the time stretching out in the manner of those on-line maps where you zoom in for the details.

In these emergency situations, the event triggers the response (a sudden sharpened focus and absolute attention on both observation and specific actions) which also pulls into it this expansion of time to make room for that focus. But the FOCUS is the important key.

For the athletes, musicians etc. who have experienced what they call "zone" in the one precise sense of it, they began with a trained focus, which they then applied to the event in that same pattern of observe-react moment to moment focus. In what I experienced, the act of practicing a certain way with a deliberate kind of focusing, this sense of time expansion happened. Later by coincidence I was told that the kind of focused practicing that musicians do will bring about a milder version of expanded time, which on very rare occasions can create the full blown phenomenon experienced by the baseball player. Because of the experience I had had, which had remained a mystery, I became interested in what this was about. Simply as a means of playing better it is good to acquire the habit of a certain kind of focussed practicing and playing, and if one can end up expanding time, so to say, it improves playing itself.

But then I got into the panic situation last year, when I found out the exam was printed on two sides of the page so that I had done less than half with only a quarter of the time remaining. To begin with I had all the signs of an anxiety attack: sweaty palms, rapid heartbeat, trouble breathing, shaky hands, inability to concentrate, just wanting to hand in the paper and flee - had I been forced to wait out the remaining 35 minutes they would have crawled by. But because I had had the experience mentioned above, which came from that focused practising which expanded time, I was able to draw on this and redirect my focus on the task. The rest of it kicked in as well - the time-expansion etc.

Given that experience, what if the ability to redirect focus on the task as well as bringing in some degree of expanded time of the kind that gets filled with focus (observation and action moment for moment) could be one way of combating stage fright when it occurs?

Nicely put post. Cognitive therapy is rubbish though. King Canute like (or not-like) you cannot hold back nature with thoughts. Cognitive is just the latest palliative bandwagon.

If that should be the case I'm earning a living with rubbish. The meaning of 'King Canute like' etc. got lost in translation, but, by all means don't hesitate to express YOUR opinion. I've no problem with opposite points of view whatsoever (even when I consider them a bit bluntly put), except in those cases when an opinion is presented as a fact.....

Chaplin

King Canute thought (thought - geddit?) he could hold back the tide because he was all powerful (or thought he couldn't depending on your take).

KBK, it is a mind over matter mind thing, not mind over matter we're talking about. The person who suffers from stage fright does so not because of external factors, but internal, so it makes perfect sense that it can be overcome with therapy of certain kinds. I did this with myself with the help of some wonderful caring teachers. They weren't psychologists, but they understood the issue of stage fright enough to get me going in the right direction. This is something that can be changed, but with the "brick wall" quote from another recent topic, you have to want it badly enough to get past it.

Humans like to think they are in control. They're not. Your fight/flight instinct goes too far back for that. Coping strategies and acceptance strategies are what's called for not denial.

Most stage-fright is easily subdued by a Zen-like trance (focus)..............or alcohol


H1

KBK, I don't envy the world you're living in. According your posts I strongly would like to suggest you that you pay some attention to the deeper meaning of your own 'signature', because IMO you are trying to invent a wheel, but you haven't got a clue about the road. And at this point I'm not even sure whether you know how a wheel suppose to look like.

Concerning the 'stage freight discussion':
I'll rest my case.

Greetings from
Chaplin

These things rarely actually solve the problem, but simply mask it. Following a well-thought out, logical approach with the goal of changing behavior is the only way to truly change stage fright.

Er..., was that rude? Have you actually ever played in front of an audience?

The remark about alcohol was an attempt at levity.... the focus remark is truth....focus, or changing behavior patterns, is the way to deal with "stage fright", some are more adept than others.

As you say..."masking" the problem might be the first step in defeating the problem.

Thanks Morodiene....I don't think I've been quoted before....that is cool!

I seem to develop tachypsychia when I play with certain drummers...time seems to speed up and slow down for the entire gig.

That is funny....I can relate

H1