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#924519 - 01/15/07 02:41 PM Thoughts on this kind of policy
Piano&Flute Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/06
Posts: 384
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Hi Everyone,

I am re-writing my policy for next September, and am trying to find the easiest way to completly avoid refunds or make-up lessons while still being fair to my students.

I am thinking of incorporating two free lessons into the year (one December and one June). If they come to every lesson, they get the two free, if they miss two for any reason they have the two they don't have to pay for. After that, any lessons missed are automatically forefitted. Absolutely no make-ups, refunds or credits.

Have any teachers here tried this, and if so how has it worked for you. Any opinions?
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#924520 - 01/15/07 08:01 PM Re: Thoughts on this kind of policy
Corwin120 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/15/07
Posts: 99
I am not a teacher, but I think this policy is extremely fair. This is what my teacher does: I pay by the month and it is the same every month. I go every Wednesday and some months have five Wednesdays. I do not pay extra for these months. However, if I miss a week (for any reason) there are no make-ups. I feel this is also extremely fair.

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#924521 - 01/15/07 09:25 PM Re: Thoughts on this kind of policy
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13763
Loc: Iowa City, IA
That's what I do. Monthly fee, and the 5th lesson in a month is free and takes care of make-ups and holidays.

The best thing in the world for handling payment is to do it monthly or by the semester. Every time I've tried to charge weekly by the lesson, people end up thinking they can skip and just not pay. It sends the wrong message to the student/parent (no committment required) and wreaks havoc with music teachers' budgets.
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"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#924522 - 01/15/07 10:50 PM Re: Thoughts on this kind of policy
Candywoman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 834
But Corwin, what about the months that have only 3 weeks, such as December and the month that has spring break in it?

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#924523 - 01/15/07 11:18 PM Re: Thoughts on this kind of policy
dumdumdiddle Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 1263
Loc: California
I am always amazed at how many piano teachers still charge by the lesson and not by the month, but there are many. My schedule goes like this:

I teach a 10-month year (Sep - June).
36 lessons for the year + two recitals (they are charged as a lesson).
Flat monthly rate regardless as to number of lessons in the month (3, 4, or 5).
I have 5 weeks off during year (typical Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter), and one 'extra' week that is my choice.
I don't do makeup lessons at all.

It is difficult to go from a lenient system to one like this, but after a while parents are fine with it and those who aren't eventually drop out, and you're better off for it.
_________________________
Music School Owner
Early Childhood Music Teacher/Group Piano Teacher/Private Piano Teacher
Member of MTAC and Guild

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#924524 - 01/15/07 11:24 PM Re: Thoughts on this kind of policy
Piano&Flute Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/06
Posts: 384
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I think I am going to take the number of lessons in the year (taking into account holidays) minus the two freebies and divide it up so that the amount is the same each month. That way I can ask for post-dated cheques for the entire year.

Right now I charge by the month, collecting payment at the first of each month for the entire month. I am getting tired of people forgetting to pay on time or writing me a cheque one lesson short because they want to skip a lesson that month. I don't let them get away with it, but the hassle and stress involved in dealing with it is getting to me. I am hoping this will solve the problem and be fair to everyone involved.

Corwin and Kreisler: Thanks for the advice.
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#924525 - 01/16/07 08:20 AM Re: Thoughts on this kind of policy
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7311
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
StephanieF - there are several good guide books available for purchase with sample policy statements in them. The one I found very useful is Martha Baker-Jordon's Practical Pedagogy. It covers a lot more topics than just policy statements. I strongly encourage you to get a copy from your local music store or Barnes & Nobel or Amazon,

That said, dddiddle's policies are very similar to mine, and they work fine. My policy is to allow for rescheduling (that would be in advance, of course) but not for makeups. No make up for any reason. What I tell my parents orally is that my tuition (not monthly fee) assumes that students are going to be ill or have emergencies during the year, so even though there are 36 scheduled lessons, I'm planning on 33. If they get there for all 36, consider it a bonus.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#924526 - 01/16/07 09:18 AM Re: Thoughts on this kind of policy
Piano&Flute Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/06
Posts: 384
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Dumdumdiddle: Our posts must have come through at the same time when I wrote my last reply. Thanks for the advice. your policy sounds great. Do you allow for re-scheduling?, as this seems to be what I am doing rather than make-ups.

John: I'll look into that book. My main problem is that I have no time in my schedule to allow for re-scheduling of lessons. This is actually what I consider a make-up. I have a limited number of teaching hours that are booked solid. Even with one or two weeks notice, I do not want to re-schedule lessons as I have students who request this too often.

I have always charged by the month, but that still seems to lead to problems with getting payment on time. Collecting post-dated cheques seems to be necessary. I have actually never heard of a teacher charging by the lesson, although it is always assumed whenever a policy or payment question comes up. It must happen a lot, but I can't imagine operating like that......the stress would be insane!

I also need to add a good statement in my policy about the tuition reserving a specific lesson day and time. That might help with re-scheduling issues.

Thanks again
_________________________
Registered Private Piano and Flute Teacher

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#924527 - 01/16/07 09:52 AM Re: Thoughts on this kind of policy
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7311
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Stephanie, perhaps you can "discourage" students from rescheduling by offering times they would find undesireable. For example, you could offer a rescheduled lesson at 1PM. If the parent balks, just say, well, if you can't make your dental appointment, and all they have available is 1PM, what would you do? Not go? Many teachers in our community have had good luck offering rescheduled lessons at 7 AM. "I'm so sorry, but it's the only free time I have available."

My HS students are the major problem for me. They get blindsided by teachers or more likely, haven't learned to plan ahead. But I really haven't had much of a problem with elementary and middle school students.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#924528 - 01/16/07 10:36 AM Re: Thoughts on this kind of policy
dumdumdiddle Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 1263
Loc: California
Parents often think that we teachers have a lot of extra time to offer makeup lessons; they don't realize our schedules are booked solid. I've also heard of teachers offering a makeup at 6:00 on a Saturday (let's say). Parents get the idea.

I tend to have fewer problems with parents whose kids are enrolled in private school. They understand that tuition is the same each month no matter how many absences you have, and even when there's the two-week Christmas break.
_________________________
Music School Owner
Early Childhood Music Teacher/Group Piano Teacher/Private Piano Teacher
Member of MTAC and Guild

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#924529 - 01/16/07 10:47 AM Re: Thoughts on this kind of policy
Knabe26 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/27/06
Posts: 221
Loc: Northern California
The only makeups I offer actually are rescheduled lessons. My policy states that I will makeup a lesson (with advance notice of the miss) only if a slot opens up in the same week, i.e., if someone else cancels. I don't do makeups at times that I wouldn't regularly be teaching. Is this what those of you who say absolutely no makeups mean? Or do you literally mean never, even if two students could switch in a week and therefore neither miss the lesson?
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#924530 - 01/16/07 10:50 AM Re: Thoughts on this kind of policy
Piano&Flute Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/06
Posts: 384
Loc: Alberta, Canada
That's a great idea, John. I wrote my policy last year trying to be fair about people missing for illness or other important conflicts, which I limited to 2/year. My policy is listed under the "About the Studio" section of my website www.ehmjaymusic.com if anyone is interested in giving advice. It definitely needs some work.
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Registered Private Piano and Flute Teacher

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#924531 - 01/16/07 11:02 AM Re: Thoughts on this kind of policy
Piano&Flute Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/06
Posts: 384
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Celia: I have been considering making this the only way I will re-schedule a lesson too. I know some teachers who do a swap list of phone numbers, and I don't know how much some of my parents would like that. But I have thought about only re-scheduling into other gaps in my schedule if and only when another student cancels. This seems very fair. My problem is with parents trying to insist on re-scheduling into a day I do not usually teach as most weeks my schedule is completly full on my teaching days.

This is completly my own fault as well. When I first moved into the area and started with only a few students I let them get away with too much because I did have so much free time. Now I don't. Also, none of these parents expect to re-schedule or get a refund when their children miss any other activity, such as dance or sports. In fact, extra dance or sports practices account for most of my re-scheduling problems. My own personal favorite is parents asking for a reschedule because they have to drive another child to a sports practice or extra school activity. Where do you draw the line? I would like them to see piano lessons the same way as they do those other activities.

The main thing also is because I want to collect post-dated cheques to ensure I actually get paid on time I need a hard, steadfast policy so I don't constantly have people arguing for refunds when they miss lessons or expecting me to accommodate a rescheduling constantly.
_________________________
Registered Private Piano and Flute Teacher

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#924532 - 01/16/07 11:28 AM Re: Thoughts on this kind of policy
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17747
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Just a few meanderings on post-dated checks: From my (imperfect) understanding of the law, a post-dated check does not meet legal criteria for being a valid check (which is "a draft drawn on a bank and payable on demand"). Because a post-dated check is post-dated (duh), it is not payable on demand and therefore the person accepting the post-dated check does not have the same legal protections as somebody accepting a check with the current date on it.

For those reasons, my husband (who owns a small business) does not accept post-dated checks. What he does is tell the customer to hand him a set of checks, all dated with the current date, and then he attaches a sticker to each check telling when to deposit it. The customer of course has to trust that my husband won't deposit the check until the agreed-upon date, which of course the customers can... but my husband also has to trust the customer not to close the account early, which is another risk of accepting post-dated or any kind of advance checks. My husband does not typically enter into these kinds of agreements unless it is an established (repeat) customer that he trusts. Presumably that is the kind of relationship a piano teacher has with his/her students.
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#924533 - 01/16/07 11:51 AM Re: Thoughts on this kind of policy
dumdumdiddle Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 1263
Loc: California
Many times I feel that piano teaching involves not only teaching children but also educating parents.

I started teaching piano while still in high school. I made parents sign a studio policy even then (25+ years ago), and it worked great. However, because I was so young I had a few parents who would still try to take advantage of me. One parent in particular paid for the month, came to the first week and missed the second (no notice, just a no-show). She called 2 days later wanting to re-schedule; I did and she missed THAT lesson also, again a no-show. Two days later she called again to reschedule, at which point I told her NO and restated my policy, the one she'd signed. She got upset and quit on the spot, demanding a refund of the month's tuition. I refused and she threatened to sue me. Her husband sent me a letter demanding a refund; I had a lawyer-friend-of-the-family send a letter back stating they were not entitled to any refund. Never heard from her again, but the experience really rattled me.

With regard to swap lists: I've never done them because IMO it's just another thing for me to organize. I know teachers that do them and say they're so easy. I don't know.... I can imagine scenarios where the wrong student shows up at a particular lesson.... or one family might get called on frequently and not appreciate it.... or families just don't want their phone numbers given out. To me, starting a swap list means that it will be more difficult to discontinue it later on. I'd rather not even go there.
_________________________
Music School Owner
Early Childhood Music Teacher/Group Piano Teacher/Private Piano Teacher
Member of MTAC and Guild

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#924534 - 01/16/07 12:06 PM Re: Thoughts on this kind of policy
Piano&Flute Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/06
Posts: 384
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Yeah, the swap list make me really uncomfortable. Mainly because it is always the same students hounding for re-scheduling, and I don't want my other parents who booked the time that worked best for them to be getting calls asking them to change their lives around. They shouldn't be put on the spot. As a parent I would not want to be put in that situation.
_________________________
Registered Private Piano and Flute Teacher

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#924535 - 01/16/07 12:20 PM Re: Thoughts on this kind of policy
Corwin120 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/15/07
Posts: 99
 Quote:
Originally posted by Candyman:
But Corwin, what about the months that have only 3 weeks, such as December and the month that has spring break in it? [/b]
I have never had a month with only 3 wednesdays in it (thus far) and he is always available for lessons (even Christmas day) so the only make-ups he will offer are when he cancels a class. I guess I think it is fair because it is his livelyhood and he depends on that income every month. If I were to not pay because I went on vacation or demanded a make-up lesson, it would mean his earning less or having to give up other time he has set aside. I like to think of myself buying a "time slot" of his and that slot will be open for me to use every week, whether I use it or not.

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#924536 - 01/16/07 01:16 PM Re: Thoughts on this kind of policy
Mistaya Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 182
Loc: Alberta
Hi Stephanie,
I don't know if you're interested in a parent's perspective but my kids have been taking lessons for many years now. Their teachers have always insisted on either posted dated cheques or prepayment for the entire semester. They were always willing to reschedule a lesson in case of illness or a major disaster, just as we were willing to be rescheduled to fit in their performances. If we missed a lesson due to a vacation or other non-life threatening situation- it was forfeited (well usually). The teachers generally handed out policies at the beginning of the year, just as you do, so the situation was always clear. I have always been comfortable with such policies because the instructor is making themselves available at that time. I would not be comfortable with a situation where there were no exceptions, ever, although I've never been in a situation where there were free lessons built in - perhaps that would work. I think your policies should work well if you can stand firm - word will get out among the parents - we do talk amongst ourselves. You don't need to let people take advantage of your good nature. Every occupation his its irritants and this seems to be part of the package of running your own studio - certainly minimize the issue as much as you can - but you do have to stay reasonable. We had one instructor who refused to refund a lesson registration deposit, when she was the one who cancelled the arrangement of driving to our rural area (she had accumulated enough students closer to home). A group of us had been paying her travel expenses as well as arranging a piano, location and full roster of students for the day. The deposit was two lessons worth - which she wanted us to access a 1 hour drive away, at her convenience. We ended up taking the loss because we felt so betrayed. I realize it's an extreme example.

So good luck with your policy. You shouldn't have to re-schedule for trivial reasons and the majority of parents will understand this.
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#924537 - 01/16/07 02:00 PM Re: Thoughts on this kind of policy
MnMsMom9902 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/09/06
Posts: 41
Loc: Silicon Valley
The music studio that my 7-yr take lessons at has a policy that allows its student to have up to 4 excused absences per calendar year (with advanced notice, of course). The excused absences are not charged. After that, further absences will either have to be reschedule or have the lesson forfeited (charges are are not waived).

I really like this policy because we feel strongly about taking our kids to visit their out of town grandparents during the family holidays (Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc). But with my daughter's regular school work, it is really difficult to reschedule missed lessons. So, the 4 allowable excuses gives us some flexibility. On those few occassions where 4 was not enough, we then either try to reschedule or simply accept the policy and pay for the missed lesson.

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#924538 - 01/16/07 02:22 PM Re: Thoughts on this kind of policy
Piano&Flute Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/06
Posts: 384
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Mistaya: Thanks for the input. I definitely want some parent's perspective and I try to be fair with my policies. You are absolutely right about being reasonable.

MnMsMom: You are lucky to have found a studio with such policies. My studio is always closed on school holidays and lessons missed those weeks are never charged for. I think many teachers would agree that to not get paid for 4 missed lessons and then on top of that allow re-scheduling whenever else someone cannot make it seems unfair to me as a teacher. I think sometimes parents forget that teachers do not have substitute students on call to pay for lessons when a regular student cancels.
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Registered Private Piano and Flute Teacher

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#924539 - 01/16/07 04:21 PM Re: Thoughts on this kind of policy
Diane... Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 3443
Loc: Western Canada
Lots of good ideas here.

First, I'm always surprised at how often the "Policy" is not read carefully by parents. So in my experience I capitalize, "Please read this policy carefully." They still don't read it carefully.

Not sure I agree with the idea to give out a list of student phone numbers because there is always one group of parents who would abuse this system.

Just my 2 bits.

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#924540 - 01/16/07 05:10 PM Re: Thoughts on this kind of policy
Mistaya Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 182
Loc: Alberta
For one instructor we actually receive two copies of the policy - one of which we hand back - signed to say that we've read it. Our copy also lists recital dates, rehearsal dates with accompanist, festival dates etc. I try hard not to misplace it. So much depends on the priorities of the family - for us music usually bumped the sports - for others it's the reverse.
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#924541 - 01/17/07 09:43 PM Re: Thoughts on this kind of policy
NancyM333 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/06/06
Posts: 1547
Loc: Roswell, Georgia
Stephanie, though I am a parent and not a teacher, I am always amazed at what parents find hard to understand. My children's teacher clearly states in her policies that enrollment is for the year. You can pay monthly or quarterly. This says obviously to me, "I'm paying for a school year's worth of lessons, not a specific number of lessons." I still hear parents complain that they pay the same for December as for March, even years into using this teacher and reading her policies.

Her policies state that she'll try to make up a missed lesson, but it's at her convenience. She does try to make up lessons if you tell her ahead of time that there is an issue. If she has a conflict, she always makes it up, or she has occasionally gotten a substitute teacher to come in for her if possible.

It is true that some people get more lessons in the year than others--Mondays are often off days, people miss more on Fridays, etc., but I think the emphasis on longterm enrollment can cut down on people nit-picking this issue. Most teacher websites I've seen schedule lessons by trimesters, with summer being shorter.

I can see that the business side of teaching piano would lead people to just go to a music school in a shopping center and be done with it. It must make a teacher crazy to have these problems after all they do to work with the children.

Nancy
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Estonia 168, Yamaha UX3

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#924542 - 01/19/07 02:50 AM Re: Thoughts on this kind of policy
pianobuff Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 1580
Loc: Pacific Northwest
 Quote:
Originally posted by StephanieF:
I think I am going to take the number of lessons in the year (taking into account holidays) minus the two freebies and divide it up so that the amount is the same each month. That way I can ask for post-dated cheques for the entire year.

Right now I charge by the month, collecting payment at the first of each month for the entire month. I am getting tired of people forgetting to pay on time or writing me a cheque one lesson short because they want to skip a lesson that month. I don't let them get away with it, but the hassle and stress involved in dealing with it is getting to me. I am hoping this will solve the problem and be fair to everyone involved.

Corwin and Kreisler: Thanks for the advice. [/b]
Stephanie,
I'm way late at chiming in here and I have not read all the posts but this one of yours caught my eye.
I just recently went on a 3 term schedule:
Fall Term: Sept - Nov
Winter Term: Jan - March
Spring Term: April - June
Because of a recent life change (taking care of my elderly father) I am now taking six weeks off from Thanksgiving week to the first of January.
BUT... I do teach on an optional basis the month of December, per lesson.
Each term consists of 11 weeks. My students pay me for those 11 lessons upfront on the first of Sept., Jan., April. For those that find it hard to pay in one big chunk, I allow 3 post-dated checks.
It has been WONDERFUL!! Before I charged per year for 38 lessons and divided payments into 10 equal monthly payments. It is so nice now only having to do my bookkeeping 3 times per school year versus 10! Also I don't have to worry about late payments every month.
As for summer it will again probably be optional for those who want to take some lessons and I will then charge a per lesson fee.
I do not offer make-ups unless someone else has cancelled. I wouldn't give away two free lessons per year. That to me does not make any business sense. If any of my families have a conflict I have a wipe-off board where they can write down the specific dates along with their phone numbers so that other families may be able to swap times. This has worked out really well.
If I'm sick I make-up the lesson. If I cancel for any other reason (very rare) I refund their money for that lesson.
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