MERLIN - A Musical Allegory

THE TRUTH ABOUT THE LADS AT CAMELOT

You are reminded of the early days in British history after Boadicea had given the Romans a whack but before the time of Robin Hood and his mob a certain King Arthur got his Knights together round a table and said
" Lads , we need to test our drinking arms. Gadzooks!!".

Merlin was consulted and after wading around in a nearby swamp with his owl came up with the famous alphabetic "grog scale" which musicians still use to this very day.

YE OLDE FLAGON "GROG SCALE"

C. TONIC....................0 Flagons. Merlin ladles out the powerful wine
==blank======
D. SUPER-TONIC......2 Flagons The whetting of whistles
==blank======
E. MEDIANT..............4 Flagons Tongues are greatly loosened
F. SUBDOMINANT....5 Flagons The boys get on famously
==blank======
G. DOMINANT...........7 Flagons A remarkable state of bonhomie
==blank======
A. SUBMEDIANT.......9 Flagons SIR GALAHAD bravely passes out
==blank======
B. LEADING NOTE...11 Flagons SIR BEDEVERE ends up horizontal
C. OCTAVE................12 Flagons KING ARTHUR of Excalibur fame topped the lot but paid the price with a sore head which was not helped by fair Guinevere's wish to go home to mother.

You might be wondering why they left out the
1, 3, 6, 8 and 10 flagons on the above scale. Later-joining Nubian Knights raised the need to fill in a few gaps in Merlin's original scale. So as not to downplay familiar records, symbols were invented to mark new efforts in terms of the earlier chappies. SIR BLACKBEARD'S 10 flagon drinking capability was known from that day as a GALAHAD "A#" (an "upped" version of the brave Sir Galahad's effort) or as BEDEVERE "Bb" (a "downed" version of the unruly Sir Bedevere).

In the Middle Ages some spaghetti-eating choir-master called GUIDO, seeking order amongst the random throats of his motley assemblage of Latin choristers, adapted the wizard's "grog scale" for his music because it matched his alphabetic scale of basic notes.

AND THEY LIVED HAPPILY EVER AFTER ..... UNTIL 1066 WHEN SOME FRENCHMAN SHOT HAROLD IN THE EYE.

Just thought you ought to know.

First of all if PJ is dithering, dither on!! Makes complete sense to me and this is is what is so fascinating -- how science (nature) gives us the mathematical insights (theory) to music which is art. It's there for us to see and hear and realize, it enpowers me, to knowing so much more when playing. There is an awsome science behind it all that turns music into "aural architecture" perhaps that is what music theory really is.
Now... as far as teaching little ones, it to me is not necessary to go as far as put stickers on keys. They have black keys to show them the pattern and singing to show them the notes and to eventually, naturally, learn intervals and then theory just comes... naturally... because it is *there* and it is not going away... it is how music just, is!
As teachers we may guide them into discovering after learning how to play. We may use basic theory in conversation *after* they have learned a piece.
When I teach Mary had a Little Lamb to my four or five year olds (and older), they first learn the melody, when they start the LH harmony, (Do-mi-sol) I call the chord a ONE chord. Simple. They get it. When they change to (ti-re-sol) I call it a FIVE chord. Simple. They get that too.
They are on there way to identifying, knowing what they are playing, because that is what we call it.
When teaching intervals, I use a pentachord pattern a little later on after their technique has been developed, before scales. The pentachord pattern is a warm-up for the continual development of technique. Great for basic theory too. This is when I show them, that what do you know there is a pattern here... This is an intro to whole steps and half steps. They love it! They feel now that they can play in any key, and they can.
Doesn't sound too ridiculous or complex to me.
Remember now, this is before learning to read music. Was it Chris H. who said that you first learn to speak fluently before learning to read?
Perhaps it is just the genius of simplicity.

Truly allegorical btb!
Where can we channel your talent?
I must confess my post sounds so boring compared to yours.

As long as you didn't take the allegory seriously
pianobuff ... your vivid description of doing it
'your way' tells us a lot about your animated
approach in the teaching of music to the smalls.

As p*d had exhorted the tribe to go for the record number of Teachers Forum responses ...I thought it only fair to throw in a bit of lightweight rot to keep the thread 'on the boil' ... well ... keep it 'luke-warm' then.

btb, I am still not sure what your views are on the diatonic scale. I will try asking for the third time. You say music is based on 12 equal notes. You want to do away with keys, key signatures and accidentals and introduce a chromatic stave. So do we get rid of the diatonic scale as well?

It seems that btb is very much concerned with the teaching of 'smalls'.

How about the teaching of 'bigs'? I mentioned this discussion to my theory teacher today, sort of summarizing what I see as btb's views (that music theory is nonsense that can't be understood by anyone, and that our notation system is garbage that can't be mastered by anyone), and his very simple response was: "Try telling that to the people in this room."

Quite a lot in every imaginable subject area is complicated and difficult for 4-year-olds. That doesn't mean we should abandon all quests for knowledge, simply because a 4-year-old isn't as likely to understand as a 14-year-old would be.

In btb's spirit of keeping things simmering pleasantly.

We're Knights of the Round Table,
We dance when ere we're able,
We do routines and chorus scenes
With footwork impeccable.
We dine well here in Camelot,
We eat ham and jam and spam a lot.
We're Knights of the Round Table,
Our show are formidable,


Sorry, couldn't help myself

Matt

Debussy20, I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries!

Now, leave this thread at once-ah, or I shall be forced to taunt you a second time-ah!

Ne!Ne!Ne! Ne! I say Ne! to you!

btb

I haven't visited here in ages...but what to my wondering eyes should appear? You again with the same ax to grind.

I know this is your billion-dollar idea, where is that tapestry of sound you invented?

Remember we've been bickering about this before.

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=27;t=000568;p=0#000000

It is a bit entertaining to read through the posts...I especially appreciate Chris H's animal system of notation. Thanks for that!

Hi Hobie,
Good to have you back ...
"well, I have others" says it all.

The human brain has amazing powers. When a person looks at a lot of notes, say for example, an ascending run of sixteenth notes, the key signature gives him or her an immediate clue what those notes are.

Now, take out a key signature and use the alternate proposed stave, and the player has to read the notes directly without any additional clues. Since most runs are not simply chromatic, you are going to have a series of 1-note (half step) or 2-note (whole step) intervals. Seems to me that would be MORE difficult to sightread than our current system.

Any thoughts?

I feel the same way.
Would we then do away with transposition?

Hi Frank III and pianobuff,
You might be battling to get your minds around the advantages of the chromatic stave ...... what was said was that CHANGES in key signatures would be eliminated ... eliminated in the sense
of not being apparent ... by finding a space on the stave for all keyboard notes ... it follows that accidentals ... and key signatures no longer menace sight-reading.

Here’s a diagram of the even steps to a chromatic run and the T.T.s.T.T.T.s steps to any major scale ... the shape of the major scale stave is “cast in stone” ... that identical outline works for any key simply by moving the keynote up or down on the repeating 6-line stave.

Expect a raid of hornets! ... but must get to 200 before the break web page for Christmas.

If you believe so strongly in that notation why don't you fund the development of a software notation program that uses it? And market it and you'll see how popular it is.

bzzzzzzzzzzz....bzzzzzzzzzzz

Yes we must keep this thread alive.

btb, I thought you wanted to do away with the diatonic scale. I did ask you about this but you seemed to ignore the question.

The problem with the chromatic stave is that it shows the diatonic scale as an irregular pattern whereas in 99% of music it is a regular pattern. The chromatic stave was the idea of people who believed the diatonic scale had had it's day. They turned out to be wrong.

Key signatures and accidentals don't menace sight reading, they help it. They make it possible to tell what scale or key you are dealing with at a glance. The chromatic stave doesn't do this. You say the scale pattern is set in stone but I would bet you couldn't tell at a glance which scale you were playing unless it starts on the tonic which is often not the case in the repertoire.

I put this in the other thread, but maybe it belongs here.

I haven't read everything on this thread (actually only this page), but I fail to see what is so hard about our current stave system. Surely every system for such a complex thing as music has it drawbacks. I'm certainly not saying that it is ideal as it is, but that it is more than good enough. It did evolve over many hundreds of years, and those systems tend to be better than untested brainstorms, no matter how brilliant they appear, I think.

As I said, I didn't read everything, but I was interested about the Grieg piece. Are we forgetting the association of keys to pieces for performers? For example, the infamous Schubert Gb impromptu being transposed to G major in one edition. It may not sound very different to most people, but for the performer it could be completely different. Our current personal feelings about keys, etc., are based on experience of that certain key. I find flats much easier to play than sharps. This is arbitrarily the case because perhaps I had a favourite piece when I was young and it was in flats, but not one in sharps. It could be different for someone else.

If we start using a new type of notation, we will be throwing away years of interpretation and tradition, potentially. The look of the score plays a huge role for an interpreter. Look at Schenker, who tried very hard to duplicate the 'feel' of Beethoven's sketches in his edition, an idea I think is exemplary and not mentioned enough.

There isn’t a snowballs hope Iain of convincing the formal school of the advantages of the chromatic scale ... this is just a bit of fun to
reach the record 200 responses before bailing out for Christmas.

Oh come on btb, give it just one more go.

Merry Christmas everyone.

Happy 4th of July everyone.

(as long as we're offering greetings so long in advance... :p )

I suspect the fourth isn't celebrated quite as intensely in Pretoria, PJ.

Christmas isn't celebrated quite as intensely in my home, either, but everybody wishes me a Merry Christmas anyway.

Either way, today is only December 10! As far as I know, Christmas is the 25th. Just seems kind of silly to me that people are wishing each other Merry Christmas so far in advance when it isn't yet Christmas.