Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Question for adult beginner teachers

I show students what's great or fantastic about a work. The only thing I can remember having to discard was a Lutoslawski invention.

When I was teaching, I would always let the student choose. I'd pick out several pieces that would be suitable, play each one for the student, and let them choose. If they didn't like any of them, we would look through the book for other ones. Eventually, we'd find something that the student liked and that would teach the student whatever technical point needed to be taught. There's a lot of music out there.

I think that teachers often forget just how long it takes a beginner student to learn a piece. When you assign something like "Twinkle Twinkle", what it means to the student is that they are going to be playing and listening to "Twinkle Twinkle" for hours on end. Their family is going to be listening to "Twinkle Twinkle" for hours on end. I think it would be cruel to assign a piece the student really doesn't like and expect them to spend an hour a day with it.

If a teacher explained that there was reason for doing any particular piece, whether technical or musical, I'd accept that even if I didn't like it.

If I thought the teacher was insisting out of form, never give in and lose a power struggle, that kind of thing, I'd be resistant.

I'd probably ask questions to figure that out. Some teachers might get defensive at that point, judging from Betty's posts. (probably not her, I'm extrapolating)

My guess is most students go the passive-aggressive route instead. They keep plugging away at the piece they hate, somehow never getting any better, until the teacher gives up and moves on.

Teachers are typically going to teach only what's
in their repertoire, or at least what they're
familiar with. At this point in your development,
the teacher might have only one piece
that he's familiar with that fits the bill.

The classical repertoire is vast, and of
course another piece of the same level
could be substituted, but then the teacher
would have to learn it, which is a lot
of overtime work with no pay. Thus, the
teacher's reluctance to teach you anything
but this piece at this point.

This is what I do. A student has to really want to learn a piece for them to play it well.

Come on teachers... are you going to invest your time in learning a piece you don't like?!!

Um, we're talking beginner pieces here, Gyro.

Yeah, that's what I thought. Generally, I can sightread a five-finger beginner piece at "performance level". I would even say that someone who can't probably shouldn't be teaching.

But even if we're talking intermediate-level pieces, I think that the teacher should go for the "overtime work with no pay" and learn the piece anyway. I did, quite frequently. As a teacher, I owe it to my students to make their piano-learning experiences as pleasant, positive, and wonderful as I can possibly make them. While it's true that I don't get paid for the time I put in learning a piece, I could say that I get paid indirectly - by the student's not quitting.

Pianobuff:
Actually, this happens all the time. That is because the reverse of the OP's post is also true...I have had students want to learn a particular piece of music, some of which I do not like, but I learn that music or play it if I already know it anyways so I can teach it.

(I am so sick of "Fur Elise" that I could scream!...but two of my students are working on it right now )

Additionally, many piano teachers (such as myself) augment their income, and enjoy, playing out. If you do so as a church pianist, or play in a band, do weddings, etc, some of the music you will play you will not necessarily like.

Saying "no" is not an option if I want to keep those jobs.

But as far as the OP, if someone is simply learning piano for enjoyment, yes, they should be able to say no.

Pianobuff asked: "Teachers, Are you going to invest your time in learning a piece you don't like?!!"

I sightread really well so playing a new piece of music is not hard for me, I can play most things through and get a good enough result to understand what the piece contains, and I analyze it as I'm playing.

So, I'm saying it is no extra effort for me to preview a piece I'm going to teach. If I can't play it competently and learn what it consists of and how it fits a student, I would really be at a loss of knowing what to teach and how to teach.

Every piece should be played through at some time before teaching it. Even simple elementary pieces, you want to know how the student is going to feel playing this one, and if there are any hidden difficulty factors in it.

I usually write out a schema of the teaching points when I preview a new piece and place it in my lesson plan file.

Over the years, this preparation has prepared me to make quick diagnosis, and to write out only the most complicated things as notes, the other pertinent things are captured by my mind and hands as I played through it.

Being able to sight read and do analysis leads to quick preparation of a finished piece, and memorization.

Pianobuff also says: "A student has to really want to learn a piece for them to play it well."

I would try encouraging the student by saying let's see how long it really takes you to play this one....you really can't tell if you like it or not until you've been able to play it through.
You might be missing something important that this piece would really help you with. Sometimes the things we don't like to do are the missing pieces to doing something well. Challenges are good for you!

Nothing turns me off more than a reluctant learner who resists something the teacher is choosing as a good learning piece.

We really have trouble developing musicianship and moving toward success when the student will play only what they choose. A student needs the stimulation of going outside their own preferences...it usually results in laving a good experience after all.

Like a dress hanging on the rack in the clothing store, you can't tell how it will look on you until you try it on. Isn't that true? It applies to suitable music too.

Sick? Elise wouldn't come down with the cold if she was Fur-ry.

Warmer that way.

To the young musicians, mostly the girls, Fuer Elise is a desired piece - one reason being that it is played on many music boxes - and is the epitome of "classical" music. Most ask to learn to play it long before they are ready for the 8 pages of development, not just the theme. Parents and grandparents swoon when it is accomplished and played well.

It's the vehicle of choice for so many young ladies.

Now the task is to play it well, and to understand the different sections of the piece, and to take it on the total composition as written by Beethoven, not an arrangement or short theme.

It is chock full of good technique learning opportunities, the study of form is very interesting as it captures the students attention as to how analyzing really prepares your mind and hands to meet the playing requirements. Most students feel the huge progress they make from having studied this piece.

I feel a student has to be ready for this mindbender full of content, and must possess graceful playing ability with touch and dynamics, or it will not sound good. Technique rates high on this piece as a study and exercise.

I do use the A section occasionally as a reward to a student who really wants to do it, and who has been making good progress toward being ready.

It's also important, I think, that the student be able to pivot on LH finger 2 to reach the 5 and 1 fingered octaves, and the RH must be able to play 7ths and 8ths. So student overall size is important, too.

It a piece that has many teaching levels to it, so it isn't exactly easy over all.

It takes a person who is a studied musician to do it justice. This might be the musical vehicle that takes them to that accomplishment.

It can also be one problematic piece if assigned to the wrong person, for the wrong reasons, at the wrong time, or with the wrong attitude toward it.

Such is life.

Betty

I never complain about a piece assigned. If I don't like it I consider it a technical piece and a challenge. Most often my teacher will ask if I like a piece (he'll play it for me) before assigning it. Of course after several years, he generally knows what pieces I like anyway. And if we've been working on it for a long time :rolleyes: he'll ask me if I'm sick of it and reassure me of the value in continuing to study it.

Occasionally he'll assign a piece and after a couple of weeks we'll leave it because it proved to be too difficult. I may continue on my own if I love it and bring it back later but I trust his judgement and generally am happy with anything assigned.

I think it's important to have several pieces of varying levels on the go at any given time.

Betty..I agree it is a great learning piece, its just that I really am tired of hearing it.

I was in a piano store some time back and there was a small sign on the wall that said, "no Fur Elise"...they were joking, of course, but the sales person rolled his eyes when I mentioned the piece.

Along the same lines, I saw a sign in a guitar music store that said, "No Stairway to Heaven or Smoke on the Water", both vastly overplayed rock songs that the staff was very tired of.

Thats exactly what I wanted to say, but you said it best.

I don't know; I still think the teacher needs to convince the student to like the piece rather than just assign it over the student's protests. A person's musical development will happen when it happens. There's no need to push unnecessarily.

When I was a teenager, I only wanted to play Chopin. My teacher was not very happy about that, and kept throwing Prokofiev and Shostakovich at me. I did not like Prokofiev and Shostakovich. I played the pieces she assigned, but without enthusiasm and as badly as I could get away with playing. In secret, on my own, I worked on Chopin. I worked on those pieces without guidance, but I tried my best to put my soul into the playing.

You really, really, really don't want your students to end up like the above. Because not all of them will be as dedicated to the piano as I was. Some of them might hate the pieces you assign and decide that what they really want to do is play the guitar, and start practicing that in secret.

I outgrew my only-Chopin phase, by the way, just like I outgrew my numerous other phases. Teenagers go through a lot of phases, and then they're done with them. There was no need for my teacher to have worried so much about my musical development. But I wish that she'd respected my desires and wishes more, and let me play what I wanted to play and grow at my own pace.

Larisa, not everyone is like you. From your previous posts, you are a hard-working person who somehow survived an onslaught of very abusive teachers.

Unfortunately, some students are lazy. I have had numerous teenagers who absolutely refuse to play anything that is even slightly above their level, and thus accept only the easy pieces. There is no growth in that.

Also, I have had students refuse the first piece I suggest, then the second, then the third, and so on, to the point that the entire lesson is a series of my playing, and their refusal.

So at some point, the teacher has to have some authority in the teaching process, or else people who are lazy, or who have control and authority issues will derail the process.

Having said that, I do allow students to refuse pieces, up to a point. If a student who is progressing, and has a history of working and practicing, then fine. I certainly can understand not liking a particular piece.

But when a student responds as I described above, he or she has become the leader in the studio, and I have lost the ability to effectively teach them.

I do see your point, but the only reason you do not call me "lazy" is because you are hearing my side of the story - not my teacher's side. If you heard my teacher (or my parents), you'd hear about a very lazy student who refused to work hard.

As a teenager, I did not believe I had any power to control my learning process or my teacher's demands on me. My only avenue of resistance was passive resistance - refusing to practice the assigned pieces I was supposed to play. It came off as "laziness". Trust me - "lazy" was the adjective most frequently applied to me as a child and as a teen, and the reason it was so frequently applied to me was because I was so frequently forced, in the name of "learning", to do things I did not want to do.

So why is your "lazy" student lazy? Why is he only playing easy pieces? Is he afraid that he'll screw up the hard piece you're assigning? Is he worried that learning that piece will take up a lot of time? Is he secretly hating piano lessons and just passing the time until his parents finally pull the plug? Find out why and tailor your explanations accordingly, and then you're in control of the lesson without sacrificing your student's autonomy quite so much.

Larisa, did you really read my post?

I did not say I had "a" lazy student...I said "some students are lazy".

You are correct...there is a variety of reasons for that laziness, some of which you mentioned.

For your information, I try very hard to find the reasons why someone is "lazy", and overcome them. Wish I were more successful in that!

After almost 10 years of near full time teaching, I have had literally hundreds of students; Therefore, my remarks are in general, and thus do not sacrifice anyone's autonomy at all.

I would never do that!

I really appreciate all the different views, it gives me a lot to think about. For the record this isn't the only piece she has assigned, but it is the only one that I just can't find any connection to.

I currently have 8 pieces assigned in addition to my work in the Alfred's AIO course. So I'm thinking if I say, I just don't like this one, it shouldn't be a big deal, but I wanted to make sure I could weigh a teacher(s) opinion to not jeopardize what I feel is a good working relationship between us.

It may help too that me and my teacher are both Homeschool moms, so we generally have a slightly different view of the learning process from most traditional educators. Thanks all!

Probably so, but so rare most people never meet one.

It is more useful to talk about what a student DOES than what he IS.

The same student who practices piano ten minutes a day may play video games four hours a day, and have developed an almost unimaginable level of skill at Ghost Recon or whatever the fad is now.

Is it useful to call him/her lazy? Nah.

And he's clearly not; he'll go without food or sleep perfecting a skill at one activity, just not the one you want. There's nothing lazy about that.

Has anyone ever increased their practice time because somebody told them they were lazy? Nah.

The term serves no useful function and is in general not descriptive. In addition, it is judgemental and antagonistic. All in all, I'd just remove it from the dictionary.