Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Question for adult beginner teachers

If you gave an adult beginner a piece of music to learn, and they told you that they just didn't like it and didn't want to invest any time in learning it, would you be mad or upset?

Obviously there is something in the piece that my teacher wants me to learn, but I just don't like it, there is bound to be something else that will fill the gap that I might enjoy, right?

I want to make it clear that I am taking lessons and learning piano simply for personal enjoyment and satisfaction. Is there any reason I shouldn't refuse to work a piece I don't enjoy at all?

I personally think it is the difference between being a kid and having to do whatever your teacher assigns because you don't have a choice, and being an adult who says, I have no desire to play this piece of music and find it a waste of my time because it bores me and makes me want to avoid the piano.

Thoughts from teachers?

Your choice of words ("refuse") comes across as being a little confrontational - I wouldn't think it would come to that with any of my adult students. We'd be able to talk about it and arrive at some compromise.

If this is a one-off, there's room for a bit of give and take, possibly on both sides. If most of the pieces your teacher sets are hateful to you, then there's a problem which needs to be addressed. Similarly, if a student of mine hates most of the pieces I set, then there's a problem which needs to be addressed, from my point of view too.

You are correct currowong, I probably did use harsher language to get my point across for this post than I would with my teacher. So let's bring it down a notch. If I said, "I don't like this piece, can you give me something else to teach me what this piece is supposed to teach me", would that be acceptable?

And yes, MOST of the pieces she has given me I have really enjoyed, I guess that's why I'm thinking I just don't want to do this one piece.

Yes, I'm one of the teachers who would probably be annoyed at that. You didn't say how long you've been studying with her. That might make a difference if you have respect for each other and can work things out together.

A blatant "No, I'm not going to do that" would really get my curiosity up, and I would ask "Why?" and listen.

With what you have said about this situation, I would then think, of my word, this gal has a "pocket of resistance" going and we're going to be facing issues like this a lot. So, then, I'll question the value of my teaching and how that fits with your preference.

Usually, I can do compromises with you win some, I win some. But I feel there are certain times I really want the adulte student to work through a particular piece because it will be very helpful in the long run of learning.

But, a real, definite "No!" with the look that you might vote with your feet if you can't have your way without considering mine, I think I would let you "win" and remind you on the way out the door that you signed a contract to give me 30-days notice of termination, and if you quit abruptly now, you will not be receiving any money back, and in fact will owe me a payment to cover that term.

If my promising you that something spectacular is going to happen to you because of this piece, it wouldn't matter to you is what you are saying.

The other thing I would think about you would be that there is a control issue going on and I'm being manipulated.

If I asked you to please follow my lead and you said "Absolutely not!" That would be it.

So now I've said it....you won't like it, any adult student reading this will not like it either. So I'll be in the soup for saying the way I feel it is between teacher and student.

My last try at communication would be that usually (like 99% of the time) perfection, emotions, and fear bring these kinds of "stand offs" into place. They can be handled and worked through. The outcome is usually a learning tool to both of us.

I really try to meet my students requests when they ask to play certain things, as long as they have the ability to handle is well at this level in their life. I don't feed into letting the student set the pace and my job is not trying to make her happy all of the time - that would be unethical of me to ditch my teaching ethics and give in too easily.

Students who change teachers a lot because of issues like this are called "teacher hoppers". One of the characteristics of such a person is someone who is ready to walk at the least provocation. It's really sad when that happens. And, it's quite dramatic as it's occuring.

I'm not standing here with my arms crossed and my toe tapping, there is no anger on my part. But imagining if I were in this situation makes me not want to cave in because I think it's important for a student to listen to their teacher's point of view especially when it might be a very important issue to the teacher, too.

By the way, what is the piece in question?

Thank you Betty, that was exactly the teacher's point of view I was looking for.

And the piece is The Masked Rider, I just don't like it. She has given me so many more pieces that I DO enjoy, and when time to practice is minimal (I too am a professional that works in excess of 50 hours per week, homeschools three children, leads a Girl Scout troop on top of everything else). I really want to spend my time learning pieces that I enjoy, knowing that there is something to be gained from each piece she assigns, but don't want to offend the teacher who I respect fully.

But on the other side, there is this voice that says "don't make me buy lemons when I really want oranges", kwim?

Yes, the teacher is the teacher, but the student is also the consumer, and should they not have some say in the product/service they are consuming?

I don't know how long it would take you to learn the piece, but for shorter pieces, I'll ask the student to learn it despite not caring for it for some particular technique... once I think they've learned that from the song, we move on. For longer pieces, I don't even ask unless they like it. (However, if I notice somebody keeps choosing the same style of songs, I'll try to push other styles on them so they at least know HOW to play them.)

-Just another take.

Wow, you are forcing your students to play pieces that they don't like?

And there is no need for an essay. It's a simple question.

Ha. I told my teacher more then once that I didn't like a certain piece at all. We would have a friendly chat about it. What it would teach me, if we could replaci it by something else. if I could just focus on the technical 'challenge' of the pieceinstead of being able to play it perfectly from the 1st to the last bar.

Absolutely no uneasy feelings on both sides (but dutch people are known for and used to straightforward communication)

Ingrid

...and there's no need for this rude remark either, especially when directed at one of these forums most repected and valued contributors, who has helped many of us and whose views are highly regarded by those of us who appreciate a comprehensive reply to our questions. For me, that includes Betty's reply to the op's question in this thread too, as she - the op - herself acknowledged!

what is the "masked rider" piece? what kind of music? who composed it? This is tangential to the question but I am curious.
In my student experience, my teacher does not like to be questioned about music choice. ALthough I was asked about my likes /dislikes in my first meeting. So the majority of the pieces I get are reasonable but I have ploughed through some boring ones. Eventually you get into it and we move on quikly as it becomes obvious to the teacher that I am not loving the piece..

I apologise.

But i still insist that teacher should not be annoyed in case like this. I will always refuse piece that i hate (Which does happen only once or twice per year)

I agree with you on this. My teacher suggests pieces for me to learn and then, between us, we usually find one which fits her/my pedagogical requirements and which I also happen to love ('like' is not good enough)

There are some additional perspectives to this. Hopefully, the teachers task is to give us skills (technique) for playing the piano, and knowledge (theory) to be able to play the music. Eventually that gives us independence, because when we have those two things we can play whatever we want.

Many teachers begin with these two things: technique & theory. Now they have to bring them to us gradually in stages. Not only do we need to understand, we also need to physically master these things. The pieces are the things this teacher uses to bring them across.

If a teacher wants to bring technique and theory to us via pieces, she first has to find the ideal piece. It has to contain the things we are to learn, and it can't contain anything we cannot yet do which would trip us up. Unless she is depending entirely on a method book, the teacher has probably spent time collecting the must suitable pieces.

The teacher has probably spent more time analyzing the piece, so that she can present it to us. At this point we come along and want something else, because we don't "like" this particular piece. If a teacher works this way, then having the piece rejected can be annoying, I imagine.

Other teachers might be more flexible. They might know generally what kinds of skills they want to teach in which order, and will apply those things to any piece that fits reasonably with what we are able to do at a given point.

Then finally there may be teachers whose aim is to help us play particular pieces. They will give us what we need for that piece, then the next and the next. If some technique tends to develop in a certain order, is this ideal?

Of course the other possibility is the teacher who is not yet complete in his/her own development, and only has a limited repertoire of what they can teach.

Personally, because of certain experiences, I would not want a teacher to entirely give me the choice. As students we should know what our purpose for lessons is. I do think that if you really hate a piece of music and can't get over it, that a teacher might be flexible.

KS

This has come up before. With more music available than you could play in a single life time there will be plenty that you like which also fit the pedagogical purpose.

Wouldn't that mean that generally speaking teachers *can* afford to be flexible (within reason)?

I'm with kbk. Life is too short to spend time working on something that isn't enjoyable -- especially for my adults taking lessons for personal pleasure/growth. I can't imagine it would be a big deal, and I certainly don't feel that the need to think about or bring up the 30 day notice in the contract would be any part of this.

I'm so impressed with the posting in this topic.

I'm seeing intelligence, maturity, and purpose posted here.

The teacher having "veto" power to wanting to assign a particular piece NOW, is usually part of a well planned, logical choice of music that the teacher feels is important to the student's development at this time.

An adult student over exerting on a "No" without supporting it with other information is thinking as a consumer of pleasure and catering to emotional needs (his/her choice or opinion ranks high).

If the student explains/justifies their reason for "NO!" and it becomes important to agree with the student that this would not be a good choice...(BarbVA gave good reasons from her point of view in a later post, but I would still want for her to construct and play this piece of my choosing.

It is to my detriment that I don't think I know the piece she mentioned, unless it's a piece I know by another name:lots of 1/8 notes and aggressiveness, fast tempo, key of A minor, long phrases, but I'm guessing here. Who is the composer of the piece you are telling us about?

Cruiser not "destroying" it.

I'm of the thought that you and she will work it out - maybe by both giving a little bit to the center - a negotiation - an adjustment. That is between you and she.

So many student quit over conflicts like this - it is sad to see it happen. Disagreement actually presents opportunity to discuss and understand that which might otherwise become a crisis ending the relationship.

I also believe the students satisfaction and enjoyment rank high in delivered goods and that is important to achieve. At the same time, there are other things we do that rank high in purpose and acquiring skills, but don't immediately produce satisfaction that you can bank.

And, for GreenRain, another "epic"!

Betty

And where's my ?

.....

Hmmm... curious!

To the teachers out there, wouldn't you want to know if a student seriously dislikes a piece?

My own experience has been - pieces that I love, I absorb incredibly quickly. Pieces that I love (or like a whole lot!) draw me in, and make me want to practice more - I end up sending alot of time on them, just because I enjoy hearing them and playing them.

Pieces that I'm just "ok" with - I work hard on, but it's a conscious choice to work hard and prepare.

Pieces that I don't like - I really struggle with. It's always odd to me - because even when they're noticeably *easier* to play, I struggle - they just don't get imprinted on my brain the same way. And, though I do NOT do it on purpose, I end up spending less time on them. I really try to be diligent, but because I don't like them, the internal reinforcement is not there - they are truly "work" (whereas pieces I like don't feel like work, they feel like fun, even if they are much harder and take a lot more "work" to get right - it's "fun work!")

Given all that, I would imagine a teacher would want to know. It seems like the easiest way to create motivation would be to focus on pieces that really speak to the student, and the quickest way to kill all the joy of playing is to assign pieces that the student doesn't enjoy.

It also seems useful. If I'm struggling with a piece, it seems like we'd approach the difficulties differently if they were technical, for example, versus personal issues with the music itself...

For me, I usually try to give my teacher the benefit of the doubt and to put in a good effort (though as I said, it's hard and slow for me!) and after a few weeks of feeling stalled out, we'll move on.

I've had a couple pieces that I didn't like much at first, but really ended up enjoying. And, oddly, some that I loved listening to - but really didn't enjoy playing at all!

Good luck with it.