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I have been reading this forum for a couple of weeks and I find it to be very informative. Most interesting to me are the different teaching methods discussed and the styles of the teachers who post. I am a piano student in my fifth year. While I very much enjoy music and playing, I absolutely detest my lessons. My teacher is incredibly strict and very demanding. I have been with him for all my studies so I have never experienced other teaching styles.. but i do think he has gotten worse over time. He is very inflexible: everything from no chewing gum and cut-off shorts in his studio down to ridiculously long practice requirements even during my finals.. I admit that he has taught me a lot and in fact, sometimes (not often) I am myself kind of proud of what I can do.. but at a price.. This teacher's method is all about scolding and "punishments".. scale away if you miss practice (not that I would ever dare show up without practice.. but he can always tell if I practiced 55 minutes and not 60 a day..) Is the good teaching result worth the terrifying lessons? To complicate things, this teacher is a very good friend of my family (my older brother is a very accomplished pianist and thinks the world of this teacher) and I don't think I stand a chance of changing him.. I once did not show up for a student recital because I did not think I was prepared enough but my teacher had insisted that I play.. Perhaps I was secretly hoping that he will drop me, but it did not happen.. I got scolded and loaded with extra work for a whole month instead... My parents will not listen to my complaints and think that I am too rebellious and have problems with authority.. I feel silly complaining at this forum but may be someone is familiar with this style (my teacher is german as is my family) and has some insight.. I do not want to quit because I really dream of becoming an excellent pianist (like my teahcer I guess) but sometimes I wonder..

I don't see the problem here. If he didn't
drop you for something as serious as not
showing up for a recital, then that means
that you can do just about anything short of
physically attacking him, and he won't
drop you. And if you were daring enough
to skip a recital, then that means you'd
dare do just about anything.

He sounds a bit 'old country'. I wouldn't think his particular style is any more effective than a more friendly approach. It does sound like you don't have much of a chance of changing but do start sticking up for yourself more and more. It's not you, it's him!

Elise, you didn't say how old you were, but I have a feeling . . .

Anyway, the no gum chewing is for a reason, not because he detests gum chewing. It's really difficult for students to internalize one beat, let alone two separate beats. There is a secondary concern - many people stop breathing during periods of intense concentration, then gasp for air. We don't want you to choke!

About the shorts - you have no idea, and most women don't - the effect you have on men or should I say, our hormonal systems. By dressing modestly, you insure your teacher is totally focused on your lesson, and not on you!

However, I do take exception with his pedagogy.

From the very limited information you've provided, I'd suggest you find an adult confidant who can sit with you as you discuss this with your parents. If you cannot get your parents to accept that there are other, often more effective, styles of teaching, you have to decide whether to rebel and stop your studies (a decision you'll probably regret deeply) or if you're willing to tolerate his dictatorial manor.

Crap! It's a disgusting habit.
Bring'em on!

From your post I'd conclude that you have a problem with authority and are rebellious too. I don't see how anything you wrote is incredibly strict, demanding, or terrifying (maybe you have some real examples of these?). Ridiculously long practice times? A hour is ridiculously long? ... You even claim to want to become a excellent pianist; how do you expect to get there?

Skipping a recital? Wow. I'm surprised your parents are still paying for lessons. Your teacher thought you had it in you to practice harder and make it for the recital (or maybe he thought you'd totally bomb and the embarrassment would open your eyes).

It seems to me that your teacher is trying to make you the excellent pianist you supposedly want to be. Maybe you should stop dreaming, find a realistic goal and discuss it with your parents, then find a teacher to help you reach those goals.

I took her 55 min vs 60 min to be an example of his fastidiousness, not the practice requirement. Obviously a student in their 5th year is practicing close to 2 1/2 - 3 hrs a day on average, if they're at all serious about piano.

I am sorry I did not mean to sound crass.. The gum / shorts thing I mentioned as an example of multiple detailed rules governing everything, but I never thought it was a big deal to comply with this specific rule..
The pedagogy part is the problem. and yes I am 14. It is just that you can never get a rewarding feeling after lessons. I know it is his job to correct my mistakes but there must be a better way.. As for practice he requires 1 hour a day on school days and 2-3 a day on sat/sun/holidays, so about 10 hours a week and I comply most of the time. The amount of work I get though needs even more practice to be up to his standards . I know you cannot help directly but I am curious if some of you allow your students any input into their lesson plans / your style etc..something I can try to articulate that may get his attention.

Only you can answer that question Elise.

When I was at college I had a teacher like this. Most of his students would not last long. He would rant and rave, shout and swear and was generally horrible. The biggest complement he ever payed me was 'you are quite good'! I would not dare turn up to a lesson without having practiced enough. I did it once (early on). He told me that if I hadn't learned the ******* notes then I might as well **** off and come back next week. I rolled my eyes up to the ceiling. He said, 'I don't know why you are looking up there. There's no god who is going to help you'. Needless to say I didn't do it again.

By the end of my degree I scored 80% in my final recital and won a prize for the most outstanding progress in my year. After I had stopped lessons with this teacher I went to visit him. I told him how grateful I was for all that he had done for me (musically). I asked why he felt that other students did not stick with him. He said, 'What are good results compared to an easy ride?'.

You will not change your teacher's attitude and approach. You have to learn to live with it and accept that you will probably end up a better pianist or you have to go elsewhere. It doesn't sound like the latter is an option anyway. His methods might seem extreme (they might BE extreme) but I'm sure he has your best interests at heart.

I can't think of anything more fun than looking forward to a lesson. I also think that since each of us is different we can't possibly all learn the same way. Personally I look for each student's strength and modify my teaching accordingly. There's nothing quite as spectacular as playing the piano. An eager student will most likely be a good learner.

rada

As a student, I've never practiced more than an hour even when I had reached 10+ years of studying unless it was for a competition. I've never understood why anyone would "need" to practice more unless it was for pure enjoyment as those ppl did not exceed my skills on the competition circuit. My feeling as I practice, along with how I teach, is that you practice as much as you need regardless of level, to set a time is useless. However, the points that this teacher sets seem that he wants the student to be professional, whether practicing or during the lesson, building character.

With my students I list what needs to be worked on for each piece. Depending on the age, I may list exactly how many times to play it. If it takes you 5 hrs to play that assignment, then do it. If it takes you 15 mins, fine. However, according to the post, the teacher can tell how much was actually practiced, therefore, I assume the assignment was not done, else, he wouldn't notice unless there was a spy cam.

"The amount of work I get though needs even more practice to be up to his standards ." How many pieces are we talking about? If a good amount, ask to cut back because you cannot handle it. If only a few, you need to learn how to practice. I'd suggest asking for a lesson to mimic a real practice session so you know how to practice and possibly show your teacher that you do not need strict hand-holding.

Elise_B, if you've skipped a recital, can't you theoretically skip the extra practice and scales (punishment work) too? :p

While I think hard work and discipline are necessary if you wish to progress, is it worth it if you're perfectly miserable?

I'm sure your teacher is an excellent teacher, but the personality conflict is the issue here. Before you go down the new-teacher road, why don't you have a little heart to heart with this guy?

Ask him about the no gum policy (this I find funny since during a string recital I attended last Wednesday, one of the soloists was CHEWING GUM DURING HER PERFORMANCE! ) . Ask him why no shorts. Explain to him that passing your finals is PRETTY DAMN IMPORTANT. :p You may not like some of his answers, he may not understand the needs of a 14 yr. old girl, but if you talk to one another you may be able to come to an understanding.

I hope she has a large-sized liability insurance policy.

Elise, why don't you just talk to you teacher to let him know how you are feeling about your lessons. I think its an important first step. Clearly, if he is not aware his teaching style is creating a problem, things will unlikely change (as if by magic). This is not to say it "will" help. Its possible your teacher is inflexibile in his thinking. Its possible he sees great potential in you and has a passionate and genuine interest in seeing you excel. Its possible, he's just a mean person. There are many possibilities, but a dialogue is the only way to explore them.

Teachers, I think the best way to help Elise is to answer the following question.

"If Elise were your student, what would you do address the issue?"

Hi Elise. You don't need to feel "silly" about complaining here. Venting is the first step towards (hopefully) finding a solution.

A couple of thoughts:
- He may not have "gotten worse over time", it may just be that you've arrived at the age where this is becoming hard to tolerate. And I for one am not surprised.

- In my opinion, if his method is indeed "all about scolding and punishment" then he has a bad method, full stop, and any good results he gets are in spite of this, rather than because of it. The occasional rant we can all accept, but no-one should need to be be scolded and punished into developing a skill they themselves dearly want to acquire.

- John's advice of trying another talk to your parents, this time with another adult for support, seems hopeful.

- I know your brother thinks this guy is a great teacher, but you might also try talking to him (your brother, I mean) about your feelings.

I'm sorry I can't be more helpful, but as others have said, it sounds like you need to decide whether it's worth it or not, if changing teachers is not an option at this time. I think I know what I'd do if you were my daughter, but you're not .

Good luck!

If Elise were my student, she wouldn't have this particular problem, because I don't operate by scolding and punishment. However, if it were some other problem, then I would hope she'd come and talk to me about it. I'd certainly listen, but I have a feeling I'm a bit more flexible than her teacher seems to be.

what do you mean?

Elise, my impression on reading your message (of course I only have the elements you give yourself) is that you are blessed with a truly, truly good teacher. Demanding, character-building, professional , a bit hard but hey, life is..

In my eyes, you should realize that at 14 it is perfectly natural to feel the burden of such a strict piano regime. But at the same time, I think it is important to understand that the next teacher will have his or her shortcomings too, and the perfect teacher with which every lesson is a great laugh between friends might be the one with which you learn the least. This one give you more work to do if he sees that you skip homework, and is good enough (which also means: attentive, professional) to spot little differences in your practice: respect, I'd say.

Your brother is an accomplished pianist and esteems him very much by the way, so there must be something really right in what he does.

I'd take it as a piano lesson and drilling exercise: a strong spine will do you a lot of good in life.

Hi there. I wanted to discuss some of your practise requirements.

I'm not much older than you - I am eighteen, and I have quite a lot of experience in education, believe it or not. Through my years in the American public school, I would watch my friends try to get through everything (i.e. general school work, tests, finals, teachers, etc...). My experience is that young students (maybe I should not use this term, considering that I am one, myself) tend to overreact and/or panic when it comes to these things. I remember spending almost no time at all writing up homework for preparing for tests (and I never complained about teachers) - there really should not be anything to it.

So, my point is that you really should not be complaining about practising piano no matter what time it is. If you "can't find the time" to work on your piano, then maybe you don't really want it. It is something you should consider.


I started playing again a few months ago and I take it very seriously. On average, I spend two to three hours each night (on top of any homework or classes I need to attend to). Sometimes I even cut out homework or classes from the day so that I can get some reasonable practise in.

Please consider this.

Hi Elise_B,

I can understand your frustration, but it would seem that you have limited options here. Your parents are paying the bills and sound unwilling to change their plans. The teacher is also unlikely to change much. So it probably boils down to what you can do yourself.

Strict old fashioned teachers are definitely on the endangered species list – rapidly dying out as their habitat is destroyed by the spread of other styles and methods. But sometimes when we’ve shot the last surviving creature and look back we can see certain things about them that might have been worth saving. So I’d probably rule out assassinating him, or quitting piano at this stage.

Maybe in twenty years you’ll be looking back and telling the next generation of students how soft they are.... and how you survived an apprenticeship that would make their hair curl.... but how it helped make you the tougher cookie you are today… and so on.

In the meantime you can console yourself with the unshakeable advantage that the young have over the old – in a few years time when he’s dribbling and mumbling in a nursing home you will be in your prime, and taking your music to places he’s never dreamed of. So I’d cut him a bit of slack. All you need is patience – you’ll win in the end. And, who knows, he might well be passing on things that you will appreciate later, when you look back on it all. My guess is that he probably is...

Good luck.

Chris