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Elise_B

You have received very good advice from many of the posters. I really hope you will be able to speak with a trusted adult as well as your parents in a calm manner so everyone involved can reach the best decision.

I am an adult who had piano lessons as a child from ages 7 to 13 from two piano teachers. I dreaded piano lessons from the second piano teacher. She was a bit like your teacher but not quite as bad. She wasn't afraid of scolding or shouting at you or even hitting your hands with a ruler if you weren't playing properly. Those were the good old days of piano teaching.

I remember hating piano lessons and despising the teacher because piano lessons were bordering on torture. I was nowhere near the level you are at so what did I have to lose by dropping piano lessons? Nothing - I wasn't going to have a career in music so what was the big deal about lessons? I did complain to my parents about the teacher but I continued going reluctantly to this teacher for lessons. I remember my mother saying to me that piano lessons would make me a more well-rounded person and I would probably regret dropping piano lessons. Anyway my break came when the teacher became ill and could no longer teach. It was with great joy that I stopped lessons at 13.

Fast forward thirty years later. Do I regret dropping piano lessons. Yes and No. Yes because I now realize that I really do love music - most kinds of music at least - and had I continued piano lessons I would have sooner acquired the skills to better express myself at the piano. And who knows maybe I would be participating in this forum not as an adult piano student but as a piano teacher! But I have no regrets with the choice that I made because the experience with my teacher taught me a very valuable life lesson. I was too young at the time to understand that the political, economic, and social upheaval in the country that I grew up in may have had a negative impact on this teacher. She had retired as a music teacher from a prominent high school and she probably had to teach private piano lessons to make ends meet as things started to get bad economically in the country. It's quite possible that she did not want to teach anymore at this stage of her life but had to because of financial reasons. It's quite possible that her demeanor was just a reflection of the frustration of her situation which unfortunately came through when teaching her students. The most important lesson that I learned from this experience and also had to relearn again on other occasions is that when a person is generally unpleasant and nasty towards you, if he/she is also that way to other people, the problem is with that person and not with you. You have to be in control of your emotions and behavior with that person and just allow that person the necessary space to deal with whatever issues he/she is facing but is having a hard time dealing with in a generally acceptable manner.

Another thing to bear in mind is if you become a successful concert pianist whether through this teacher or another teacher at some point in your career you will come across extremely difficult people who will take great joy at seeing you fail because of their own insecurities. It could be possible that your experiences with this teacher could be preparing you for what you may most likely experience in the concert pianist's world...

By the way I resumed piano lessons 30 years later. I have a wonderful teacher and I now enjoy lessons immensely!

Best regards,

Musictuary

For all things, there is a reason.

You simply don't understand them. I think you're looking at it the wrong way. Rather than to criticize and call these things "picky," try to understand the underlying motivation behind them. If you don't, ask him, "Why?" Picky means that you don't completely agree, but begrudingly comply. I think the student-teacher relationship should be communicative and collaborative, rather than "I say, you do." Try to encourage this in your teacher and foster this type of relationship, rather than to shut down and simply obey. I think that without a firm understanding of the "why's,", his 'pickiness' will only fuel your already-negative feelings. Get things out in the open. It will take courage.

If you don't, there are only two scenarios I can picture for you.

1. You say and do nothing. Things will continue as is, and change will not magically occur, despite all the yelling and screaming you do outside your lessons. The serious question you must ask yourself is "Am I willing to live like this?"

2. You divorce yourself from the situation and find a new teacher. I can see this would be extremely difficult to do, given the nice things you have said about him and your desire to continue with him, despite your real or perceived shortcomings of him.

Of course, there is a third option. Talk to him. I've suggested this in my prior post, but you seem afraid to address the situation. I really think this is your best bet and something I would do. As with most things we fear, after all is said and done, we really discover there was nothing to fear in the first place.

If this teacher is worth having, he will listen to and address your concerns.

Elise - I think the gum-chewing and shorts discussion are more about the possible 'other reasons' that the teacher may have for some of his requests (orders) that perhaps you don't understand or he hasn't bothered to explain. On the gum - the multiple beats as well as choking issues could be valid. When I was studying at university, my teacher worked for many years to get rid of the tension that was in my fingers, then moved to the arms, shoulders and finally resided in my jaw. I think in my case, chewing gum could have exacerbated the problem. On the shorts, men and their hormones notwithstanding, perhaps he doesn't want sweaty thigh marks on his piano bench. I know when I play in shorts I leave a rather noticeable print on my own piano bench. If you're playing hard, you will be working up a sweat.

All that having been said, if you are only practicing an hour a day (yes, even during finals) in your fifth year of study, you are not doing nearly what you ought to in terms of time investment. If you really would like to go on to be an accomplished pianist you should be spending at least three hours a day. I was putting in five, and I never had dreams of a piano career! But to do all the things I knew needed doing, it took that long. Maybe - just maybe - you don't love playing the piano as much as you want to love it? Even if you are particularly gifted (which I, alas, am not), that part is in the head. Piano playing is also an athletic undertaking and you need to put in the hours on a regular basis to get the body to respond reliably and easily to what the head tells it to do. It's like a prima ballerina only wanting to dance an hour a day. That's barely time to get really warmed up!

You will make progress on less practice time, but not nearly what your teacher clearly believes you are capable of. You should consider that attitude a compliment. In my experience, the teachers and coaches (I'm also a figure skater so I have had to deal with lots of coaches - they're a lot like piano teachers!) who feel you have great potential are likely to be harder on you, whereas they will let the "lesser" students off with fewer demands. I found it really demoralizing if any of them would say something like "oh, that's nice, Sweetie," whereas if they said "That's TERRIBLE! You sound (or look) lik a ruptured duck! That's the most pathetic excuse of a cadenza (axel, lutz) I've heard (seen) in YEARS! Now sit down (get up) and do it again....and again...."

Now, I do try to be complimentary and supportive of my students and to acknowledge work well done, but many students don't want a cheerleader - they know when they've done it right, but if it isn't right, they might not realize on their own exactly what needs fixing. I personally favored teachers of my own who were pretty stingy with the praise but would fix everything they saw that needed fixing. I'm always a little surprised and embarrassed if one of them says something positive

I have no problems with this, if this is in fact what's happening. Just because I object to the scolding/punishment method doesn't mean I want teachers to say "that's nice, Sweetie", or ignore things that need fixing. I also have no problem with the nails/gum/shorts rules, though there's a way to state rules that's respectful of the student and a way that's demeaning.

The OP said the teacher's method is "scolding and punishment" and further added that "And he gets all mad and he yells at you about every second measure.. I already walk in with a big gulp and sometimes I kind of freeze at the bench especially if he is in a bad mood already." If we take this at face value, then I maintain this teacher's method is at best offputting, and at worst, bullying. I don't think results justify treating people like this. Is Elise exaggerating? I don't know, and I don't really think we can know. I'm just giving my opinion based on what we were told.

I have no problems with this, if this is in fact what's happening. Just because I object to the scolding/punishment method doesn't mean I want teachers to say "that's nice, Sweetie", or ignore things that need fixing. I also have no problem with the nails/gum/shorts rules, though there's a way to state rules that's respectful of the student and a way that's demeaning.

The OP said the teacher's method is "scolding and punishment" and further added that "And he gets all mad and he yells at you about every second measure.. I already walk in with a big gulp and sometimes I kind of freeze at the bench especially if he is in a bad mood already." If we take this at face value, then I maintain this teacher's method is at best offputting, and at worst, bullying. I don't think results justify treating people like this. Is Elise exaggerating? I don't know, and I don't really think we can know. I'm just giving my opinion based on what we were told.

I agree, Currawong. There is something wrong with the approach of a teacher who strikes fear into his young students' hearts, 'especially if he is in a bad mood already'. No student should have to fear the emotional state her teacher might be in that day. It's not as if the only possible teaching methods are either ineffectual sweetness or intimidating harshness. There are ways to give very precise corrections that are respectful, calm, and effective.

breaking news: My Dad will talk to the teach!!! (who has been on agitato con fuoco recently!!

That's good to hear, Elise. Let us know how it goes.

That's great, Elise. I hope it goes well and makes your lessons more comfortable for you, whether with this teacher or another.

At first, Elise, I thought perhaps you were one of my students, trying the back door to get me to let up on you, since you're so loaded with talent, but come to lessons unprepared, week after week, but then, I never punish you with exercises or yell at you, so figured it just coincidence.

But your more recent posts tell me something about you that your first post did not. You're not in love with the piano! The weekly piano lesson is a chore on par with the daily math class or gym class, or what ever. It's a requirement of life, not a passion.

With your teacher, and most of us writing here, it's a passion. Our lives would be empty, incomplete, were we to have to give up our instrument.

What gave me the clue is that your teacher is discussing with you tone production on the piano, and your reaction is, "Okay, already." For you, playing on an electric keyboard would be just fine. You criticized the fact that the student instrument was a Boston grand. Most of the teachers and players here would give anything for a Boston grand, for ourselves, let alone our students. They are capable of wonderful sounds and tones - in the right hands, and your teacher cares enough about you, knowing that you have the ability, to help you achieve a beautiful tone at the instrument.

No teacher wants to see a student with great talent drop out, but if after 5 years of lessons, you haven't developed a real love of piano, then obviously, piano isn't your forte and it's not going to happen. The teacher is obviously a fine teacher, and your parents are making an amazing sacrifice for you to study with him, but the magic is not going to happen. If you love music generally, take up another instrument, join a choir, or use lesson money to attend recitals. In NYC, for heaven's sake, you've got such a selection the rest of us don't have.

It's will be interesting for us to learn the outcome of your dad's and teacher's discussion. Do they know that they have a world wide audience waiting in breathless anticipation?

I think it is unfortunately, Elise, that you could not find the courage to have the talk directly with your teacher. Essentially, you have sent your father to do the dirty work for you and successfully avoided a potentially difficult situation. I'm not sure whether to congratulate you or not.

Showing some assertiveness may have resulted in a new-found respect in the eyes of your teacher, which in turn, may have had a profound effect on how he treated in you in the future. You'll find later in life, that dealing with difficult situations is something you'll (and everyone else) eventually have to face on your own.

Give it some thought.

Wow!!more scolding in here!!
Well you know how people always talk about how difficult it is to communicate between teen agers and adults, this would be like the best example.. where do you get it that I don't love the piano? I love it and i always will and i am pretty good at it actually i think. I just want to study it my way or at least not the way i am studying it now. i am not stupid. i know it takes a lot of hard work and I have been doing it. you have no clue about schools in this place. I get home from school at 4 and I have everyday at least 4 or 5 hours of heavy homework before I can get to the piano. and i have no other afterschool activity AT ALL.
it is not that I am that unprepared when I show up.. it is just that it is always suboptimal in my teacher's view and his best positive thing he says is :that was OK.
and for the electric keyboard, Yikes.. that thing scratches your ears so bad.. and yes his Steinway sounds a lot more glorious than the boston piano even when he is the one playing. but I did not COMPLAIN about it. I just made an observation.
Akira, i tried talking to him but he is always so brief and not very encouraging to like have a discussion. he always says that I need to learn how to listen to him the same way I learnt how to listen to music. and that everything will be fine if I do that..whatever that means..
anyway whatever. we will see

As a mom of a middle-schooler (who has 2-3 hours of homework every night) and who has friends with high schoolers (who have heavier loads such as you describe), I am fully sympathetic with you on this issue.

I have to say I disagree with the posters on this thread who suggested you are not serious about piano if you are "only" practicing one hour a day and that you should be practicing 4-5 hours a day. Four or five hours a day may be appropriate if you were shooting for a career as an elite concert pianist, but nowhere have you indicated that you are doing so. One hour a day seems very appropriate, imo, for a high schooler who has heavy demands on her time with school work.

I think the question comes down to what are your goals for piano? And what is the best way to achieve those goals? My advice has been predicated on the assumption that your goal is to become an excellent pianist who plays for personal enjoyment, not as a career. If that is the case (and please correct me if I am wrong), then I think you need a teacher who will nurture that enjoyment rather than destroy it.

If you have 4-5 hours of homework there is a problem with the schools! I know of no evidence that suggests loading kids up with that kind of work (which is often as much busywork as it is anything else) contributes significantly to knowledge gain or to intellectual development.

My son is in 9th grade. Well, he's just about done with 9th grade as he often reminds me. They have a 4x4 block schedule, so a year's worth of course work is done in a semester. It can be pretty intense. But because their classes are over 90 minutes long, they have time for instruction as well as time to do some independent work, all in school. Yes, he has homework, but nothing like 4 hours per day. And much of that homework is reading lots of stuff, which he does with relish anyway.

He usually has time for 1.5 - 2 hours of piano per day on the school days, plus 45 minutes of horn practice. With that schedule he CAN participate in some extracurricular activities. One of them is band, which contributes to musical development AND social development (!). Another is our local youth orchestra, which contributes to ..... this is sounding redundant.

He has also been known to spend some quality time with an XBox. Ooops, I confessed.

I agree... and I know it sounds crazy, but there really are schools out there loading that much homework on kids. I've seen high school kids of my colleagues easily working that much every night, and these aren't slacker kids (one of them just started at Yale).

I find it excessive that my 3rd grader usually spent 1 to 1.5 hours a night on homework this year, and this is homework closely supervised by mom so I know he was not goofing off during that time.

What's ironic (and irritating) is that the educational psych literature shows little relationship between homework time and academic achievement (Harris Cooper has done a lot of good work on that question) ...but I guess this is a topic for another thread.

Elise, I hope your father will have a good talk with the teacher. Do your parents ever sit in on lessons? Maybe they could see what you're talking about and have some sympathy, or maybe if they didn't think the teacher's actions were so bad, they could offer some perspective.

For two years I had a teacher as a child I hated, and though I liked learning how to play, I associated piano with her. I told my parents I still wanted lessons, but I wanted to change teachers. They told me that it would be my responsibility to find someone else and that I needed to be able to walk there. I asked around to my friends that took piano, found one of their teachers, and went and interviewed her myself! She was impressed by my intiative, and we had an excellent relationship for my remaining piano years. My parents had mercy on me and contacted the old teacher themselves to tell her I wouldn't be returning. I think they finally understood that, while it might be the high road to do it myself, I had done enough and they were willing to do that for me.

Changing teachers can make a big difference, and I hope you'll find some relief before the twice a week lessons start this summer.

Nancy

Elise, you thought our mild comments constituted a scolding? It will be totally traumatic for you when you actually receive a verbal scolding. Now my sympathies are totally with your teacher! I can see it now - your dad and teacher getting a good laugh out of this.

And an answer to your question, where did I get the idea you didn't love piano. Your words! Your words didn't express an abiding love of music and piano. I'm glad to clear this up. Now, put your activities in order. If music is your first love, make it first in your life, not the tail. If time is short in the day, take a hard look at how you're approaching your other activities.

I've given many of my teens a daily time chart, and have asked them to fill it out as they go through the week. Most have returned the following week with a very sheepish look on their face - discovering that they fritter away vasts amounts of time through the day. You might want to do a reality check on yourself and your activities.

You're on an adult forum, not MySpace, and the adults here communicate with each in an adult fashion. Thus, you need to expect a certain amount of directness and frankness. My guess is that your teacher, like many of us, talks to you directly, not child-like. You got good advice from many on the forum. Talk to your teacher, and if you get the feeling he's incredulous, then perhaps it's the nature of the question, which is the problem.

Keep us posted!

Word!


There is a certain amount of 'frittering' that is healthy. Chill time is valuable for teens. But as John notes, it can get out of hand. And many people (adults too) are quite unaware of just how much time is spent in stealth leisure or inefficient work. For many of us, this forum is ..... well, maybe I don't want to go there.

Probably not!

I just got out fairly recently - almost two years ago. A lot of my friends would complain about having "four to five hours of homework". I remember having even a heavier schedule with approximately one hour worth of homework each night, if there was any at all.

In my experience, young students tend to exaggerate these things for some reason; in other words, they make it more work than it actually is - well, either that, or they really don't understand the course material.


To Elise,

I think it is an age-old claim that "adults don't understand me". Instead of screaming out for that, you should explain yourself clearly and precisely, or no one will "take you seriously", as you assert. This includes talking to your dad or teacher or whatever adult you choose you interact with. If you think your teacher is brushing you off, you should say so the moment he does it.

Communication is a very fine art that many people your age do not understand. Spend a little effort making sure it is right.

Hi Elise,
It sounds to me like your teacher is asking for respect (no gum, no cutoffs) and for commitment to practicing. These two would not be a problem for me. (I teach beginners, and I'm also a piano student). I think the problem is that working with your teacher is a joyless experience. It's not that you're asking for an easier teacher, but you want one who will share in your joy in learning. I think it's reasonable to ask your parents to allow you to find a competent teacher who encourages you and shares your joy in the learning process.