Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#931443 - 02/29/08 12:58 PM Velocity
John v.d.Brook Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7368
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
A teaching topic which has bothered me for some time, because I am personally deficient in teaching it, is velocity. Velocity, as defined in older English as the speed of playing.

For example. I have no trouble teaching students to play scales at mm = 120 to mm = 132, or the Czerny Etudes, Op 299, at a similar tempo. But for the life of me, I cannot seem to get students much past that barrier.

I would think that by the time students reach high school, if they are serious pianists, we should be able to play scales at mm = 160 or better, and mm = 196 by the time they head off for college.

Of course, I address the usual suspects, locked wrists, tense muscles, overuse of bicepts and tricepts for tone production (eg, not using the flexors more), etc.

I have broched this topic with master teachers and college/conservatory teachers, but generally get the shoulder shrug, indicating that students either do it or don't. This, to me, is unsatisfactory. I'd like all my students, average as well as highly talented, to be able to enjoy clean, high speed playing.

Your thoughts and any technics you're willing to share will be greatly appreciated.

John
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
(ad) My Music Staff
Check out the new way to manage your music studio
#931444 - 02/29/08 02:55 PM Re: Velocity
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
 Quote:
Originally posted by John v.d.Brook:


I have broched this topic with master teachers and college/conservatory teachers, but generally get the shoulder shrug, indicating that students either do it or don't. This, to me, is unsatisfactory. I'd like all my students, average as well as highly talented, to be able to enjoy clean, high speed playing.

[/b]
As you know, I'm not a teacher, but here's my input (deposit $0.02 please).

I would talk to teachers like your self who have successfully gotten students into conservatories (maybe that's what you mean by "master teachers").

I find that conservatory teachers - who are used to refining once a student's technique is pretty much there without many problems - are good at getting students from Y to Z, but might not be able to address the problems that get students from A to F, or M or T. Those problems mioght be things like velocity, and how to practice overall, etc.

Top
#931445 - 03/01/08 12:25 PM Re: Velocity
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11688
Loc: Canada
The scales and arpeggios book by Francis Cooke (printed 1910?) has a systematic, physical and mental approach. He addresses speed in scales near the end of the scales section. He begins by creating "pillars", practising moving along those pillars, and then doing the note work in a series of exercises alnog a given path. He is very thorough in his instructions on both the physical and mental plane. A link to this book has just been provided this morning in a thread bearing the word "scales" in it. Might there be some useful approaches for teachers in it? It seems to be written for conservatory use, and is addressed to teachers, not students.

Top
#931446 - 03/01/08 01:29 PM Re: Velocity
John v.d.Brook Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7368
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Thanks, I'm downloading it now.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
#931447 - 03/02/08 12:39 AM Re: Velocity
pianobuff Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 1580
Loc: Pacific Northwest
John,

I know what you are going through.

What I have conceived is that it is not how fast you can play a technical skill out of context, et, scales, school of velocity, and other studies, instead it is the feeling and energy of what should be perceived in the music.

I'm saying this with my own playing experience which I try and carry over to my students.

I don't have my students play Hanon or Czerny's School of Velocity. Maybe I should, but never have, mostly because there just isn't enough time and I rather focus on muscianship skills(technique) and their pieces.

They seem to do okay with work such as this.

My motto is only play as fast as you can accurately, but then once you can, increase tempo using a metronome and then without, if you make mistakes, it's okay, slow the tempo down and then try again at a faster tempo. Think lightly when playing fast passages.

A lot also has to do with the basic technical skill of the independence of fingers, I feel. If this is not happening, playing fast will not happen.
Also being balanced is important too, slow balanced practice over each key of the scale (or any passage) works wonders for playing fast. Oh... also touching the key before playing it.
Another technic to playing a passage fast is to play it backwards, slowly and balanced over each key a few times and then play as written.

None of my students are yet playing their scales faster than a mm of 80 per quarter note, but now that I've read your post, you've got me thinking, something to start working on!
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher,
member MTNA and Piano Basics Foundation

Top
#931448 - 03/02/08 08:09 AM Re: Velocity
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11940
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
If it is speed in pieces, perhaps they are not hearing it faster? Once they get the sound of it in their "ears" at a faster pace, then it will naturally speed up. I also try playing the piece with them & the metronome so they can learn to hear it faster.

As far as scales and things of that nature, have you tried working in small segments? Like 2 notes at a time as fast as possible, then 3, then 4, etc.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

Top
#931449 - 03/02/08 09:24 AM Re: Velocity
John v.d.Brook Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7368
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Morodiene, I think you're on to something with "hearing." Most intermediate student literature really doesn't require very fast tempi, so there seems to be little need to learn to play faster. But advanced literature certainly does.

I have been working with students on simple 5 finger patterns and the metronome to see if we cannot at least get this in synch, with an even tough, at high velocity. I'm having some limited success.

The real problem comes when they need to pass the thumb under or pass the hand over. Veda Kaplinsky once told me that she sometimes finds it necessary to have the student move the entire hand horizontally, rather than pivoting on the thumb. That is, not having the hand turn at all, just remain horizontal, but making quick, rapid horizontal motions. I've never been able to do that, but I thought the concept interesting.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
#931450 - 03/02/08 10:04 AM Re: Velocity
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11688
Loc: Canada
John, have you managed to look through Cooke's book? There are particular exercises for the thumb in the scale section, and again the arpeggio section. It seems to create a flexibility and isolates the motions. Being a student I am somewhat leery of them, and would be curious about your impression My subjective and uninformed impression is that this is helpful. Why is it that nothing ever seems to be said about the thumb, when it takes up so much of the hand, and contains something like 50% or more of nerve endings?

The impression I had is that if the thumb can do more of the moving, the hand needs do less of it (pivot).

Top
#931451 - 03/02/08 10:58 AM Re: Velocity
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
John,

Have you considered "Ben Ritmo" where you would count the entire measure as "1", and the next measure would be "2".

When I teach a long string of scale like notes with a singular note values, I use this idea, and the velocity is built in. The metronome would click on the first beat of each measure (adjust metronome) 1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---. That is usually enough counting for a string of notes in a longer phrase.

And, I often make 4/4 become 8/8ths (ti,ti,ti,ti,ti,ti,ti,ti) said as quickly as possible to comply to the measure.

I don't know if this gets you exactly where you are wanting to go. The arm needs to be fleet in movement in the direction going and it helps to turn the hand at the wrist slightly in the direction of the movement

I'd have to be in that teaching situation to come up with more ideas to enhance velocity. And, it wouldn't be necessarily addressed all at once - it might take several things to help fix this problem.

Playing "Ben Ritmo" to me feels like taking "Giant Steps" rhythmically and very often melodically.

Have fun! One never lightens up by going more serious on us. Perhaps teach my gestures away from the keyboard?

Betty

Top
#931452 - 03/02/08 01:23 PM Re: Velocity
mdsdurango Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/04
Posts: 1755
Loc: Durango Colorado
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianobuff:

None of my students are yet playing their scales faster than a mm of 80 per quarter note, but now that I've read your post, you've got me thinking, something to start working on! [/b]
I'm a student who is trying to increase his scale speed and accuracy. I have a question on the above quote; is mm of 80 per quarter note equal to 320 mm per whole note? Or is that four quarter notes per beat of 80 mm?
I'm up to about four (quarter) notes per beat of the metronome when set at 120. I can not immagine ever being able to even double this speed, much less almost triple it.

Come to think of it; I can't figure out what "mm" stands for? Metronome meter? Measures (per) minute?



Mike
_________________________
WHAT???????
Yamaha S6, U5C, P120
http://michaelstith.com

Top
#931453 - 03/02/08 01:58 PM Re: Velocity
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11688
Loc: Canada
Mi question is similar to Mike's for the sake of following the discussion. When you write of scales at mm 160 for the quarter note, what is the note value of each note of the scale? Eighth? Sixteenth? Quarter (unlikely)?

Top
#931454 - 03/02/08 02:19 PM Re: Velocity
Fraggle Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 384
Loc: Nottingham, U.K.
I`ve noticed that when people say "I can play scales at 100bpm" they usually mean 16th notes at quarter=100.
_________________________
Will

Top
#931455 - 03/02/08 03:45 PM Re: Velocity
mdsdurango Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/04
Posts: 1755
Loc: Durango Colorado
 Quote:
Originally posted by Fraggle:
I`ve noticed that when people say "I can play scales at 100bpm" they usually mean 16th notes at quarter=100. [/b]
Each beat of the metronome = one quarter note?
Four 16ths per quarter note = four notes per beat of the metronome?

If that's the case, I'm playing 16th notes at each beat set at 120.

What is considered really fast for scales?
_________________________
WHAT???????
Yamaha S6, U5C, P120
http://michaelstith.com

Top
#931456 - 03/02/08 04:32 PM Re: Velocity
Ferdinand Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/23/07
Posts: 943
Loc: California
 Quote:
Originally posted by mdsdurango
Come to think of it; I can't figure out what "mm" stands for? Metronome meter? Measures (per) minute?
I believe "mm" originally stood for "Maelzel's metronome," Maelzel being the inventor. Sometimes people say "metronome mark." I don't think measures per minute is ever implied.

Top
#931457 - 03/02/08 04:43 PM Re: Velocity
Fraggle Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 384
Loc: Nottingham, U.K.
I expect a concert artist would be capable of at least 180 but I don`t think that`s considered super-DUPER fast.
_________________________
Will

Top
#931458 - 03/02/08 04:52 PM Re: Velocity
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11688
Loc: Canada
The beats in Maelzel's metronome = Mm can be converted into beats per minute, and if you don't have a metronome handy, anything with a second hand can help you get an idea. But ultimately tempo in music has a sense and feeling to it which is common sense. Andante means "walking speed", while "grave" is extremely slow and funereal. The metronome is a handy way for composers to indicate what they mean by "fast" since they can't stand in front of you and show you with a wave of the hand. It is a handy thing to measure yourself against, so you can tell whether you are staying steady, and thus win control, but we ourselves were never meant to tick and tock as we play.

I'm still curious against what note value the tempos are being aimed.

Top
#931459 - 03/02/08 08:48 PM Re: Velocity
Minaku Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 1226
Loc: Atlanta
John, thanks for starting the topic.

I find the best way to achieve an effortless, fast scale is to let the hand glide over the keys. Keep the wrist slightly elevated, with the weight fully on the fingertips, and move the arm in the direction you wish to go. The key is the overall motion of the body, not the fingers. The fingers should wiggle up and down as normal, but there should be no more effort than that. The quickness is created through the motion of the arm and body and the weight carried by the hand.

Momentum is something I love teaching my students, mostly because there are so many piano students who never quite achieve that pulsing energy that so many pieces require. I start off by doing scales without any movement, with a metronome marking. Then, during a lesson, I have them play a scale - and while they're doing it, I will pull or push one of their arms in the direction of the scale. Objects of larger mass always lead objects of smaller mass, and that's the concept I try to impress upon them. After they've gotten the hang of pushing and pulling, I teach them how to shift the weight properly over their hips, move the body ahead of the hands and arms, and then there is a magical moment when the hand is gliding, really gliding! and the student goes, "Ah! That's what it feels like!"

That smooth, gliding feeling is what makes me enjoy playing scales so much. It's funny because I think most people hate them.

Of course before all that I check to make sure the wrist isn't doing anything weird during a crossover or cross-under, and that the student isn't suffering from what I call "chicken wings".
_________________________
Pianist and teacher with a 5'8" Baldwin R and Clavi CLP-230 at home.

New website up: http://www.studioplumpiano.com. Also on Twitter @QQitsMina

Top
#931460 - 03/02/08 08:54 PM Re: Velocity
John v.d.Brook Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7368
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
To clear the confusion, mm = X where X equals the number of beats per measure. MM = 80 means 80 beats per minute, and mm = 120 means 120 beats per minute.

Elementary students begin octave scales with one beat per quarter note, each tone being a quarter note. When they arrive at a late elementary stage, the are playing two octaves, with each note an eighth note, but the beat remains quarter notes. mm=80 is a good temp for an upper elementary student.

Intermediate level students should be playing 3 octaves of triplets, each triplet receiving a beat, and I like to have them reach for mm = 72 to 80.

As students advance through the intermediate levels, I like to get them to four octaves, where each beat contains 4 16th notes. We progress from mm = 60, which is quite a leap for many of them, to mm = 120.

That, of course, is my problem. Getting good clean scales at tempos faster than mm = 120. Concert artists can play scales cleaning at mm = 212. I don't know what conservatories are asking for these days, but I should think mm = 160 would be a minimum.

Betty, yes, I've had students practice scales one beat to the octave, if that's what you are suggesting.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
#931461 - 03/03/08 04:40 AM Re: Velocity
pianobuff Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 1580
Loc: Pacific Northwest
 Quote:
Originally posted by mdsdurango:
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianobuff:

None of my students are yet playing their scales faster than a mm of 80 per quarter note, but now that I've read your post, you've got me thinking, something to start working on! [/b]
I'm a student who is trying to increase his scale speed and accuracy. I have a question on the above quote; is mm of 80 per quarter note equal to 320 mm per whole note? Or is that four quarter notes per beat of 80 mm?
I'm up to about four (quarter) notes per beat of the metronome when set at 120. I can not immagine ever being able to even double this speed, much less almost triple it.

Come to think of it; I can't figure out what "mm" stands for? Metronome meter? Measures (per) minute?



Mike [/b]
Perhaps someone has already answered your question, so sorry if I'm being repetitive... haven't read the whole thread...

But mm stands Maezal's(sp?)metronome. I always think of it as metronome marking (mm). Maezl I think was the inventor.

As far as a mm of 80=quarter note, that is four sixteenth notes to the pulse or one click of the metronome per four notes, playing four octaves.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher,
member MTNA and Piano Basics Foundation

Top
#931462 - 03/03/08 06:20 AM Re: Velocity
Keith W Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/04/07
Posts: 131
Loc: MD
 Quote:
Originally posted by John v.d.Brook:


The real problem comes when they need to pass the thumb under or pass the hand over. Veda Kaplinsky once told me that she sometimes finds it necessary to have the student move the entire hand horizontally, rather than pivoting on the thumb. That is, not having the hand turn at all, just remain horizontal, but making quick, rapid horizontal motions. I've never been able to do that, but I thought the concept interesting. [/b]
In Fundamentals of Piano Practice by Chang, he talks about thumb over/thumb under technique. I think other's call it by different names. He specifically talks about it as a change in technique necessary for high speed playing. My impression is that when Minaku talks about the hand gliding and the fingers wriggling, it's that same idea -- the entire pivoting process gets lost in a more general movement, which if you pulled it apart at low speeds would look like jumps, I think, but doesn't really work that way at high speed.

Disclaimer: I'm a beginner, so I'm just sharing thoughts, I can't even play scales fast! I just stumbled upon the thread while moseying about... This is making me think I might start playing more scales again!

Keith
_________________________
art is why i get up in the morning
but my definition ends there
it doesn't seem fair
that i'm living for something
i can't even define
ani difranco

Top
#931463 - 03/03/08 09:37 AM Re: Velocity
John v.d.Brook Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7368
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Keith, thanks for the interesting reference.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
#931464 - 03/03/08 10:45 AM Re: Velocity
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
John said:

"Betty, yes, I've had students practice scales one beat to the octave, if that's what you are suggesting.That was one beat per measure - please read that again."

John, you mentioned one beat per octave - how do you do that? There are 8 8th notes in one octave - if you do one octave ascending and descending that is 15 8th notes (considering no repeat on the top note)...same number 15 if you ascend to the 2nd octave. It doesn't feel logistcal to me I must have missed something in interpreting what you said.

Betty

Top
#931465 - 03/03/08 11:33 AM Re: Velocity
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11688
Loc: Canada
As I usually do when someone describes something, I tried it in an effort to understand: though I must admit to thinking in groups of 4, not 8, to a beat since I only began scales two weeks ago and did this only for the sake of understanding. In a four octave scale in C+ I started on C on the first beat, the next metronome beat for the next octave found me on D, then E, then F - the latter tetrachord brings one to B ... after which comes C, which neatly starts the descending scale of C+ on C again. It was a bit disconcerting at first to be emphasizing a different degree of the scale at the start of each scale.

The "pillars" for velocity work that Cooke sets out go up the octaves as C, D, E etc. and I wondered about that while glancing through the book. Same pattern.

Top
#931466 - 03/03/08 11:37 AM Re: Velocity
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11688
Loc: Canada
On another site, there is a treatise along with short video clips on the role of the thumb in particular, on the subject of scales. The idea of pivoting the hand, and minimizing that pivot, is addressed in particular. Is it permissible to link from one site to a resource on another site? I'm not clear on the netiquette of such matters.

Top
#931467 - 03/03/08 12:06 PM Re: Velocity
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2629
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Keystring, sure you can post the link to the other site. I'm curious to see these videos.
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

Top
#931468 - 03/03/08 01:18 PM Re: Velocity
KeysOnTheCeiling Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/08
Posts: 244
Im sorry but to improve myself I have a question, when you say scales at 196, do you mean at quarter notes?
_________________________
"Derrrr dat wuz gud"

Top
#931469 - 03/03/08 01:29 PM Re: Velocity
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11688
Loc: Canada
Look up a couple of posts. \:\) 16th notes, so 4X as fast for quarter notes. John and Pianobuff go into detail.

Top
#931470 - 03/03/08 06:40 PM Re: Velocity
mdsdurango Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/04
Posts: 1755
Loc: Durango Colorado
 Quote:
Originally posted by John v.d.Brook:
Concert artists can play scales cleaning at mm = 212. I don't know what conservatories are asking for these days, but I should think mm = 160 would be a minimum.
[/b]
Ouch!!!
Maybe in my next life?

That is fast!

Mike
_________________________
WHAT???????
Yamaha S6, U5C, P120
http://michaelstith.com

Top
#931471 - 03/03/08 06:52 PM Re: Velocity
mdsdurango Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/04
Posts: 1755
Loc: Durango Colorado
 Quote:
Originally posted by KeysOnTheCeiling:
Im sorry but to improve myself I have a question, when you say scales at 196, do you mean at quarter notes? [/b]
If I have this right; You set your metronome at 196 and play four notes for each click.
Each click equals a quarter note.
Playing four notes to each click (quarter note)makes each note played a 16th note.
196 is extremely fast; 13.6 notes each second.
196(quarter notes per minute) X 4(= 16th notes) devided by 60 (seconds per minute).

I'm stretched at 120.

Mike
_________________________
WHAT???????
Yamaha S6, U5C, P120
http://michaelstith.com

Top
#931472 - 03/03/08 07:02 PM Re: Velocity
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11688
Loc: Canada
When I read the posts by the two teachers, these things are offered in stages under supervision. I understand that the process takes years, beginning with quarter notes, then triplets, and finally the four notes to a click which also go to four octaves at that point. This latter stage is considered a "big leap" and is probably a carefully guided leap. While I am capable of the starting point of 80 bpm, I prefer to work slowly and get the mechanics of a single, then double, octave down right first. It's not a race.

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >

Moderator:  Ken Knapp 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
ad (Casio)
Celviano by Casio Rebate
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Kawai RX-2 and RX-2 BLAK
by myip
11 minutes 33 seconds ago
UVi Grand Piano, cant get the MIDI Files help?
by JungleJim
Today at 06:23 PM
Sheet Music for "The Villain"
by johnbarnesiii
Today at 06:06 PM
measuring humidity for piano?
by pianomise
Today at 05:39 PM
52" Samick
by PaulBuck
Today at 04:56 PM
Who's Online
121 registered (accordeur, 36251, ando, AEMontoya, 36 invisible), 1325 Guests and 18 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76290 Members
42 Forums
157697 Topics
2316330 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission