Don't you just hate it when the parents' "parenting skills" are getting in the way of their children's progress at the piano?

I teach primarily first-generation Asian students. Their parents, being born and raised in Asia, use the same old "scream and yell" tactic to get their kids to practice. One student's mother even threatened to cut off the piano lessons altogether (the kid really enjoys piano, but is being pushed to the edge by his uptight mother).

I am much younger than these parents, and it feels awkward when I have to dish out advice on parenting. Any suggestions on how to get these parents to update, alter, and improve their parenting skills??

My goodness ... tell me the cure please!

There seem to be two types of uptight parents: the ones that pay for lessons and yes scream at kids to practice, then there are the ones who encourage kids to quit.

The latter is often the case when an adolescent pays for his/her lessons due to working for it. I have seen it myself, where students pay for their own lessons and their parents tell them "its a waste of time."

Well, I think first off, parents need to be empathetic. (actually the rest of the world needs to empathize). Parents think kids will spend 3 hours of practice everyday (ok I am exaggerating here) but really some parents forget that kids cant sit down for long hours at a time and should aim for 15-30 minutes practice everyday. Honestly ... it never clicks into these uptight parents that the way around it is to practice 5-10 minutes a day three times a day!

Whats worse is that the parents aren't involved with their child's musical studies. Seriously all they do is scream to practice. They don't listen, they don't praise and when they say "play me something" they talk through the whole performance! When the kids proudly proclaim "I've done 30 minutes!" They say "well if you where proffessional you would have done 5 hours" ... WHAT ON EARTH!?!

Sorry I know I am getting a little carried away ... I was raised as one of those children I came back to music studies when it was taught in my high school... later I made the decision to take private lessons. I quit as a child because I had these uptight parents. After all these years I spoke to my mum about this and she apologized saying "I wish I knew ... I should have known" ... obviously its late to change things but atleast I came back.

How do you teach the kids to practice? Do you send home sheets? How do they look? Do the parents sit in the lesson? How do you encourage parental involvement? How do you speak to the parent? How do the parents speak to you?

Sorry for interrogating you ... I just wanted to get a clearer mental picture. I am no teacher but I am a student that underwent that trauma. I can totally relate to how children feel.

Yes.

Wait till your my age, almost 60. Then you can politely tell them to shut up, which I do!

Such people make me FURIOUS.

I had a lovely girl who loved lessons and loved working with me. She was Haitian. Because I liked he so much, I had to bite my tongue as I heard her parents get on her back all the time about not practicing enough.

"When is she going to perform? Why doesn't she have pieces for a recital? She doesn't practice enough. She's lazy."

She was one of the shyest kids I've ever taught and the thought of playing for other people was something she wanted no part of. She didn't practice a great deal, but she was not lazy either, and she always made good progress.

The parents stopped the lessons. I know she was crushed. And there was nothing I could do.

But they did not yell, not in my presense. No one gets to do that. At least there are SOME advantages to having wrinkles and gray hair.

What I find most frustrating is so often dealing with extremes. Either the parents are not bothered and don't encourage their kids to practice or they put so much pressure on that the kid is in tears if they make a single mistake.

How do you deal with them?

As diplomatically as you can.

AZNpiano,

I'm curious about whether the fact that you're Asian, too, has any bearing on your relationship with the overbearing parents.

Does it benefit you at all in terms of your credibility or your ability to communicate frankly with them (in ways that a non-Asian might be hesitant), or is your own background different enough that it's not of any consequence (or perhaps even works against you)?

Steven

Even worse: the overbearing parents want to tell us how to teach, and what to teach.

At the interview, take a good look at the dynamics between the student and the parents. There are always clues.

I've had wonderful parents in my studio, loving, considerate, interested in their kids, patient with me, encouraging. Fitting in nicely in a positive way.

There are monsters, demanding, controlling, last word in everything, they diminish their kids, they threaten, they show disrespect to others, they demand attention, they are high maintenance.

Others are unreachable sometimes because they are too busy, too tired. Numb.

Despite the challenges, it is important to communicate with each parent in the studio.

Just the other day I met the mother of a transfer student for the first time. Her father has been bringing her previously, a nice, quiet man, available but not unpleasant in any way.
The young lady about 11, I've had for 6 months. Likeable girl, patient, consistant, growing in her playing abilities after a hard start of everything she played from her method book from the other teacher had problems. Notes, rhythms, fingering, stops and starts, lack of confidence. Ow!

The Mom at the end of the lesson stood up and showed enthusiasm for her daugher: "Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful music", she said. And, she clapped her hands.

I was so very pleased to meet this lady! What a lucky girl to have parents like she has. Her little brother loves to come in and listen to her play too. This family is the smiling-est!

I'll spare you the monster stories! Deal?

Betty

Precisely! I have to deal with this all the time since several students' parents play the piano, too, and quite proficiently--I might add. One of them decided to take her child to another teacher, which is a blessing-in-disguise for me.

Steven:

A lot depends on the individual parent. In my culture, a teacher is supposed to be viewed with veneration. Some parents do treat me that way. Even though I'm way younger than they are, some of my students' fathers stand up when I approach them to speak with them. A pair of sisters' mother even bows to me at the end of the lesson when they say good-bye! It is a treat to teach these kids--well-disciplined and polite. It shows in the way their parents treat me!

And then there are those parents who treat me like someone much younger than they are--with the "I've crossed more bridges than the roads you've taken" attitude (Old Chinese idiom). For some reason I get stuck teaching these kids whose parents gave birth really, really late. They're like grandparents at their PTA meetings. Some of these parents are full of the "I'm right because I'm older" attitude, which is something I CONSTANTLY have to deal with as an Asian-American. In Asian culture, when an older person makes a blunder, the younger people should take the blame or at least cover up for the older person, hoping that future generations will do the same when we get older. I certainly hope this attitude will just go away when these parents assimilate to American culture.

So, some of these problems I'm experiencing isn't just a matter of "culture gap"; it's a matter of "generation gap." For the parents who think "they're right because they're old," there is no reaching them, unless you are older than they are.

Sorry, my post was cut short because I got side tracked by that work thing!

I was about to say that I deal with these parents as diplomatically as possible but keystring beat me to it.

It's just about impossible to change the way these people behave. It's not my place to tell anyone how to bring up their kids. They would probably point out that since I have no kids of my own I should keep my mouth shut. I try to focus on making the experience as pleasant as possible for the student. I can only suggest ways in which the parents can help and hope they might take my advice.

The worst of it is that these irritating people will take up 98% of our energy, if we let them get away with it, and then we are left to deal with the other nice people no longer at our best.

I have been purging the last day or two, and I see I have lots of company!

Toxic needs to be released, and I know I'm understood, maybe not completely in agreement with each other, but we each have something taking it's toll.

I started "can of worms" topic in frustration, but I'm beginning to mean it as a solution.

If we earn a living at our private teaching, we have to work in larger numbers of students, and even then it isn't enough. I have had some of my happiest years when dealing with only a few, select students, or when I have moved and have to rebuild a studio. It starts small and grows.

Often, the annoying parents are the ones who don't actually enjoy, understand music or play any instruments. They just force their kids to take lessons because :

1. a piano 'status' , if you know what i mean
2. music will make their kids smarter.
3. their friends' kids play piano so their kids must too attitude.

I've seen plenty of these parents in the Asian community in the bay area and a few are parents i know personally.

Honestly, there are really no easy way to talk to parents like that.

At best, you can form an alliance with the kids and do an "end around" to help "handle" the parents.

Did I ever tell you about all those uptight teachers I have encountered? The ones who ......
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My personal opinion is that it is not a teacher's place to offer advice on parenting, no more than it is a parent's place to offer advice on piano teaching. I think if such advice was offered, no matter how tactfully, the response would most likely be to mind your own business. In short, I believe most parents would find such a gesture offensive.

Okay, PD, where and how did you get that fabulous emoticon?

The problem is when "parenting" includes telling us how to teach, in front of their kids, when the parents are totally ignorant of what they are talking about.

I didn't get the sense that the same problem the original posted described, although I would agree, that would be a problem too (not sure I would categorize that as parenting, though).

I think the idea was that "parenting skills" was really figurative for the behavior of "parents who behave like total jerks and ruin our days".

For instance, I sometimes have parents start yelling at their kids, in my room, even interrupting me as I'm teaching or trying to explain something. At that point I tell them I won't allow that in my room. They may perceive that as my interferring with their "parenting style".

I don't give a ****. My room, my rules!

That seems fair.

Here: Well Tempered Forum

Sorry, I don't have time to read all the above threads atm, so here's my $.03 (increased due to inflation and gas prices): You're not telling them how to be parents, so much as you are telling them what works best to encourage the child to play as best they can. Frame it in that light, that you do want the child to excel as much as the parent does (which is true), and tell them that it has been your experience that this (insert suggestion here) works best in most cases. You don't have to mention that what they are doing is wrong, or anything, just say that in order to maximize the student's potential...blahblahblah. You get the idea. I have to make suggestions all the time to parents, especially in regards to Kindermusik class, where the children are quite young. I have no children of my own, but I do know what gets the results that they desire. Parents generally trust the teacher when it comes to these things, and I'm sure they sense that what they are doing isn't quite working. If you always present it as "We're on the same side here," then generally it won't be taken personally or as a slight to their parenting skills.

I'd just like to mention that getting parents to listen, to anything, is a lot easier when you are older than them.

And a lot harder when you are younger than them.

From reading these posts, I feel some helplessness. My mum when she used to take me for lessons when I was much younger and she wasn't at all the ideal parent. She is not musical at all and she thought that I should learn one song a week! She screamed at me to practice and did not sit down with me. She wasn't 'taught' or 'told' to sit down with me when I practice. After all these years she has apologized to me for being a dreadful un-musical parent. She didn't know any better.

Thank goodness of piano forums ... at least parents and teachers can see on the otherside and see what happens.

Still, there is not much one can really do and its sad. I don't think parents should really get away with treating their children in such ways. To do it diplomatically is a start but sometimes being diplomatic deprives the real message.

Sometimes parents are just unaware ... I have a few ideas that just came to me:

1. When you give your studio policy maybe you can include a brochure made titled "your child and piano/music lessons." You can include hyperlinks to particular articles on the net or you can type out the importance of family involvement. If English is not the first language then maybe you can have someone help you with translation.

2. You can have the parent sit in the lesson ... sometimes the parent can say things like "sit still! ... Don't do that" ... or "that's not real good" ... What you can say is "I think Johnny is doing a great job" ... praise in a lesson ... this might nudge the parent to do the same since you are modeling the way and setting the example.

3. Some teachers have give students report cards (like the school ones) so maybe you can do the same. Include areas needed to improve but provide nice comments along the way.

4. After a recital or an exam have an honor roll published in the local paper. Congradulate the child infront of the parent. Have the notebook of the child stamped or with a sticker to show his/her hard work ... be sure that the parent sees it.

They are just a few ideas ... tell me what you think ... they may or may not work... I just think if my mum was told some years ago how I should be handled it wouldn't have been so bumpy. She is changed now ... (partially because I am older) ... she doesn't tell me to practice anymore and gets me to make my own decisions but she understands what she should do.

Tell me what you think of the ideas ...? Too idealistic? Not idealistic enough?

Rebekah,

I don't know how else to say this: sometimes parents don't listen, and they wouldn't listen to God Almighty.

I started a 3rd grader about four weeks ago, and I made it crystal clear to the mother that I wanted her to be part of the lessons until I was sure her little girl was on the right track.

She bailed out this week. The reason? She works. She was tired. She didn't want to be in there.

So there you go.

Some people you can educate, but some are just too pig-headed to listen to anyone, and that's life.

By the way, *most* of the parents of my students are at least reasonably cooperative.

OK, thanks for the reality. I know we cant change people but sometimes people can steer other people in the right paths.

I don't mean to be too idealistic here but really we cant see into the intentions and minds of people. So at least you tried ... BTW ... does this mother ever 'scream' at her child to practice? Is she an uptight parent? Or just an uninvolved parent?