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#933699 - 05/01/08 12:50 PM Speechless. . . now there's a first!
Diane... Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 3443
Loc: Western Canada
Just found out, by accident, that one of my students has been playing in another teacher's recitals for the last 3 years! Just to clarify, my student gets absolutely no instruction from this other piano teacher whatsoever!

Also, there's no recognition that he's not his student. No announcement at his recitals that he's a guest! Nothing!

Maybe I should be please that my student gets an extra opportunity to perform publicly, which he loves doing? Maybe I should be flattered. But I have just never heard of this ever.

Totally confused about the whole thing at this point! And I'm speechless!

Any of your thoughts about what you would do in this situation would be very much appreciated.
_________________________
http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/goldsparkledress.jpg
Diane
Jazz/Blues/Rock/Boogie Piano Teacher


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#933700 - 05/01/08 01:22 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
I would have a "conniption" and in fact I'm having one right this minute in your behalf!

I'm amazed that this is a 3 year old happening and they - the other teacher - the parent - the student - have not thought that you would want to know about this - and should know.

The issue is ethics on the other teacher's part.

I would feel "ill" from discovering this as well as not understanding the secrecy of it.

Do you know the other teacher? Are you both MTNA members? Does it happen in her private studio, or through MTNA recitals? This could be grounds upon which acomplaint to the "ethics" chair could be made.

I'm speechless too. It makes me feel crazy imagining how ever do you work this out without fracturing your own integrity. The angry words inside block my ability to speak.

I, the advocate of a quiet mind, am sizzling at each person involved in this and consider it to be a gross problem. Obviously, they haven't seen it from your perspective. I would be offended and I would suppose that it might not be able to be worked out since it's some kind of a relationship to the other studio.

How did you find out about it?

What are you going to do?

In my book, this is pretty outrageous!

And, it would make me wonder what else I don't know.

Breathe deeply! Restore yourself to calm.

(Betty take your own advice!)

With best wishes, Diane!

Betty

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#933701 - 05/01/08 01:28 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11662
Loc: Canada
My reaction as student did not go beyond Is it possible at all that this teacher thinks she has a guest student who has no teacher and is teaching himself? Is it possible at all that he may also be taking (occasional) lessons from this teacher? How utterly strange! If one "guest student" is there, might there be other students of other teachers appearing as unannounced guests too?

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#933702 - 05/01/08 01:45 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
funburger Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 1417
Diane, honestly my reaction is, if he didnt tell you that he was performing for 3 years what else dont ya know? he could very well be taking lessons from the other teacher also, so you cant jump to conclusions of the other teachers ethics. the kid obviously loves piano which is a plus, the parents probably thought nothing of it. the other teacher might not even know about you, if you didnt know about him/her. so i wouldnt jump to conclusions about the other teachers ethics until you actually talk to the other teacher and find out whats really going on if it is bothering you. just my 2 cents:)
_________________________
If it ain't fun I ain't doin' it:)

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#933703 - 05/01/08 01:54 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
tenders Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/31/08
Posts: 73
Loc: Westchester, NY
It is certainly a compliment to you...and to your student. However, depending on how the other concert is billed, it is potentially misrepresenting the other teacher's abilities and roster. Not your problem, perhaps not in your student's best interests to halt it, and almost certainly not worth a confrontation with him, his family--all willing participants.

Why not stop by one of these concerts someday and compliment him?

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#933704 - 05/01/08 01:57 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5462
Loc: Orange County, CA
Wow! I'm shocked, too.

Is this other teacher "claiming" your student as his/her own? And the parents let this happen? That is so unprofessional.

Some suggestions--

1) Dump the student. Now.

2) Complain to your chapter of MTNA or whatever professional association you've joined. Over here in California we can file a written grievance to the State Board of Directors. If found to be unethical, a teacher can be dismissed for violating the Code of Ethics. No more state-sponsored programs for that unethical teacher.

3) Call up this other teacher and interrogate over the phone.

4) If nothing else provides you with a clear answer, sue. (Just kidding) But seriously, you should publicize the incident and let other people know what has happened.

I've encountered some "cloudy" people in our line of business. Whatever you do, stick with the bylaws and rules of your professional association. Do not associate yourself with people who engage in unethical behavior.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#933705 - 05/01/08 02:00 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5462
Loc: Orange County, CA
 Quote:
Originally posted by tenders:
Why not stop by one of these concerts someday and compliment him? [/b]
:p

Great idea! There's this music school that stole two of my students. I'll just show up at their next recital and make everybody feel uncomfortable.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#933706 - 05/01/08 02:12 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
miaeih Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 267
Loc: SF Bay Area, CA
 Quote:
Originally posted by tenders:
It is certainly a compliment to you...and to your student. However, depending on how the other concert is billed, it is potentially misrepresenting the other teacher's abilities and roster.[/b]
My thoughts exactly. I'm surprised so many here are immediately taking offense and jumping to conclusions about this.

Maybe the student just wants to be in a recital with their friends. Their family could know the other teacher and want to socialize together. The student may want more performing opportunities. Maybe the teacher has already informed the other students/families that someone they do not teach will be preforming. There are many possibilities that could explain this without negative thinking and most would be compliments.

Unless the student signed a contract stating that they would not perform without their teacher's permission and that they could not seek out a second teacher whether for lessons, feedback, etc, I'm not sure what the problem is.

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#933707 - 05/01/08 02:12 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7355
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Whoa!

First, I would contact the parents and student and confirm whether any instruction had been received by this teacher, and if the teacher knew the student was studying with you.

I would also pointedly ask if, somewhere in the recital, the student's teacher was acknowledged.

Then, as AZN has stated, I would cancel lessons immediately, explaining to the parent that this behavior is unethical, and hurts both teachers, not just you. It unfairly represents the other teacher as well, good or bad (we hope good!).

I would do all this first, before contacting the other teacher, because I have known students and parents who have been extremely deceptive about this and both teachers were totally ignorant about what was going on.

John
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#933708 - 05/01/08 02:29 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11662
Loc: Canada
Is it possible at all that the student doesn't know the ins and outs of these kinds of ethics. I would not think of doing such a thing, but I know that over the last few years I have discovered a few things that were expected or taken for granted that I would not have thought of. I would explore this in a neutral way at first with the student - parents if they're involved and depending on the student's age, to find out what the thoughts were. What was his thinking and why?

The teacher is another matter. Wouldn't this teacher wonder where the student's skills were coming from? But again the prudent thing would be to find out exactly what has been going on.

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#933709 - 05/01/08 02:58 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5462
Loc: Orange County, CA
 Quote:
Originally posted by miaeih:
Unless the student signed a contract stating that they would not perform without their teacher's permission and that they could not seek out a second teacher whether for lessons, feedback, etc, I'm not sure what the problem is. [/b]
Good point! I need to add that to my September contract update. Thanks for filling that loophole.

However, the Code of Ethics in our state's association states that a teacher cannot claim another teacher's student as his own, not even for the first six months since the transfer. Some cloudy teachers don't bother following this rule.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#933710 - 05/01/08 02:59 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11795
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I second John's advice about talking to the parents first. You need to get your facts straight. Kids sometimes don't really have it all straight in their minds. First talk with the parents (face to face if at all possible) and simply say that this was brought to your attention, and that you need to know if the child is taking lessons from this other teacher, and why they are performing in this other recital. Then I would call the teacher in question and ask them the same thing. Do all this without any accusations or anger, as you really don't know if there's any wrong doing at this point.

Then when you have a better idea of what's going on, you can decide if you should stop teaching this student and raise ethical questions about the teacher.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#933711 - 05/01/08 02:59 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
Diane... Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 3443
Loc: Western Canada
Thanks everyone!

How I found out about this was he brought me a DVD that I could keep of him playing the piano at this teacher's recital. Pieces, I taught him. When I asked him where this was, cause he was dressed up and everything, he said a family friend (the other piano teacher) of theirs always invites him to play at his recitals.

This other piano teacher was his piano teacher before me, but he transerred to me 4 years ago. I know for sure that this other teacher is not teaching him now. So maybe because he is a family friend, I just keep quiet and let this go.

My student gets lots of positive feed back from performing there, which I'm grateful for, but I still just don't think this is right!
_________________________
http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/goldsparkledress.jpg
Diane
Jazz/Blues/Rock/Boogie Piano Teacher


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#933712 - 05/01/08 03:25 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11662
Loc: Canada
It sounds like he wasn't being devious since he gave you the CD and even expected you to be please. Could this first piano teacher be more the casual sort, the kind that knows how to play piano and so teaches a couple of kids but isn't into the formality of the situation? If it is known that he is no longer her student, is it possible that people might ask him "Who is your piano teacher?" If your teaching is superior, then his playing would stand out by contrast, and that is an advertisement in your favour (and not in the other teacher's favour). Those are a lot of ifs.

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#933713 - 05/01/08 03:35 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
Courtesy is still courtesy to the teacher.

Let the teacher know your plans to perform elsewhere.

The other teacher should have called and express their interest in welcoming him to perform there as a "graduate" of his studio, and now a student of __________Diane...

They might even have invited you.

I am still strong on ethics.

However, I always hope not to embarrass anyone on problems like this. It is hard to remain cool when you hear or see something and it's an absolute surprize to you.

Communicate with them.

My fit lasted only until the next subject came to my attention, and life has gone on. However, I did find it upsetting that this would happen to any piano teacher.

Betty

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#933714 - 05/01/08 03:40 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
lalakeys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/05/06
Posts: 286
Loc: Chicago 'burbs
I would definitely NOT drop the student--the student did nothing wrong (in fact, the student may have thought that you would approve of him finding outside performance opportunities!).

What I think I would do is send an e-mail to the other teacher if possible (I'd prefer an e-mail to a phone call so that there would be a record of exactly what was said). I would tell him or her that while I appreciated my student's having had the opportunity to participate in another teacher's recitals, I believe that it's in everyone's best interests if an acknowledgement is made clarifying that you are his regular teacher. And I would mention that should one of his/her students wish to perform on your recital, his/her name will be listed as the teacher.

Since the other teacher is a family friend, I wouldn't necessarily assume that the students' parents knew there was something "fishy" going on. But after e-mailing the teacher and explaining your position, there should be no doubt in that teacher's mind what your expectations are--and if your student performs again without an acknowledgement that YOU are his teacher, I would consider a direct confrontation with the other teacher (possibly with another teacher for reinforcement or "backup"!).
_________________________
Private piano & voice teacher for over 20 years; currently also working as a pipe organist for 3 area churches; sing in a Chicago-area acappella chamber choir

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#933715 - 05/01/08 03:49 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
bitWrangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1789
Loc: Central TX
 Quote:
Originally posted by AZNpiano:
 Quote:
Originally posted by miaeih:
Unless the student signed a contract stating that they would not perform without their teacher's permission and that they could not seek out a second teacher whether for lessons, feedback, etc, I'm not sure what the problem is. [/b]
Good point! I need to add that to my September contract update. Thanks for filling that loophole.

However, the Code of Ethics in our state's association states that a teacher cannot claim another teacher's student as his own, not even for the first six months since the transfer. Some cloudy teachers don't bother following this rule. [/b]
I'd be a bit careful about putting that type of verbiage in the contract. I'd be very disinclined to go with a teacher whose contract had that type of language. Seems to me that this oversteps boundaries (e.g. I can't even get someone elses opinion, hmmm).

I do understand the issue here first hand. My wife and my kids have two different teachers, my kids were invited to play at my wifes first recital (her teacher is new to the area and her studio is still small). We did indeed let our kids teacher know that we were doing this (not to get permission, but as a courtesy), even though the two teachers actually know each other personally. I'm not sure exactly how we'd react if the kids teacher had some type of problem with this.

I completely understand the courtesy and respect issue involved here (from a parents/students POV, I won't speak to the teachers ethics POV), but putting official language in a contract takes it to a completely different level. Having language that _asks_ that the teacher be told of these events makes complete sense to me, but dictating what the student can/can't do outside the lesson times (other than requiring some minimum amount of practice time) seems to me outside the scope of such an agreement.

Of course this is just my opinion and there are probably plenty of teachers that can and do have clauses like that in their contracts and have nice full studios so YMMV.

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#933716 - 05/01/08 03:52 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11662
Loc: Canada
The only one in error was the original teacher, who probably is the bumbling more casual sort for whom these recitals are happy occasions and nothing more. Stupidity and lack of awareness does abound in the strangest corners. If no deviousness was intended, warm emotions of friendship the motivator then nothing was "done" to anyone. Just a breach of etiquette.

The child's gesture of handing the DVD to his teacher speaks of inclusion, not exclusion. I would see his attitude as being something like pride of representing his teacher in this other place. He might be proud of his present teacher and what she has given him, which he wants to show off. Misguided, sure. Perhaps you could invite the other teacher to one of your recitals. Get to know her.

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#933717 - 05/01/08 04:16 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17776
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
 Quote:
Originally posted by bitWrangler:
 Quote:
Originally posted by AZNpiano:
 Quote:
Originally posted by miaeih:
Unless the student signed a contract stating that they would not perform without their teacher's permission and that they could not seek out a second teacher whether for lessons, feedback, etc, I'm not sure what the problem is. [/b]
Good point! I need to add that to my September contract update. Thanks for filling that loophole.
[/b]
I'd be a bit careful about putting that type of verbiage in the contract. I'd be very disinclined to go with a teacher whose contract had that type of language. Seems to me that this oversteps boundaries (e.g. I can't even get someone elses opinion, hmmm).[/b]
Ditto here. In my mind, the larger "ethical violation" is a teacher who attempts to control the student's playing to the extent of making the student ask permission before playing in public anywhere.

I'm still gobsmacked over that concept.

I personally don't see anything wrong in a student playing in another recital. Yes, it would be nice for the student and other teacher to acknowledge the hard work and good training provided by the real teacher. But if you believe that playing in recitals is a good experience for a piano student (you do, don't you?) then surely it's a good thing for a student to get as much experience playing publicly as possible?
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#933718 - 05/01/08 04:37 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
tickler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 373
Loc: Chicagoland
I agree that the recital handout should list the student's teacher -- so that the wrong assumptions aren't made.

But, it seems VERY wrong to not allow a student to perform without their teacher's permission. Does that mean the student can't play the piano for a school play? Or perform at a hospital or nursing home?

Not being able to contact another teacher for lessons is also wrong. What if a family friend is a teacher and offers a lesson while visiting? Does this mean the student can't take master classes elsewhere?

Personally, I wouldn't sign a contract with clauses like that. I'd find another teacher.

Mary
_________________________
Music should strike fire from the heart of man, and bring tears from the eyes of woman. -- Beethoven
1911 Steinway A-II (2007 Rebuild)

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#933719 - 05/01/08 04:44 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7355
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Isn't it amazing how amplifying details can completely change the situation?

Many of us would have responded quite differently had we known more initially. Of course, the amplifying material does change the response.

At this point in the discussion, I'd probably just call the other teacher, tell her how much I appreciated the DVD and my student's opportunity to perform, but add, that I would have liked to attend if at all possible, so in the future, could she include me in the loop. And, oh, by the way, it would also be appreciated if the program would indicate that Arthur's teacher is so and so, and probably she should extend that courtesy to any other teacher whose student is performing.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#933720 - 05/01/08 04:56 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7355
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Mary (tickler), you make some interesting points. When one of my students perform publicly, they are, for better or worse, representing my studio and my teaching. Naturally, I'd rather them be well prepared and make a strong impression. I can help them! This is my job!

I am not quite to the point where I would "prohibit" a student from playing a venue, but on the other hand, most teachers know whether the student is well matched to the venue being considered.

Generally speaking, we engage masterclasses for our students, and make sure the teacher knows the material the student will be presenting.

Better teachers are leading students down a path of discovery, learning, and mastery. Occasional detours can be invigorating, but they can also be devestating or have negative results. Masterclasses can be very tough on a student's ego. And sometimes, the masterclass teacher may be teaching or approving a technique you want your student to avoid until they are more mature. Thus, caution is indicated.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#933721 - 05/01/08 04:58 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11662
Loc: Canada
This story has put some interesting things on the forefront that we usually don't think about.

Recitals have two roles. It is important for the student's sake to have recitals, and as many as possible. Musicianship is about performing, and a musician who can't performing through inexperience is missing something. So recitals are necessary for the student's sake.

However, recitals are also a form of advertisement. If a student plays badly then it's negative advertisement and if a student plays well everyone will assume that he is playing well becuase of his hard work and the guidance of his teacher.

In regards to taking lessons with other teachers - it is not advisable as a beginner because you don't now when different approaches and methods could clash and confuse. However, opportunities such as masterclasses come up, and it can happen that a teacher is weak in some area as the student progresses which a consulting teacher or similar can help with in which case you have a delicate situation. Or you may have a teacher who is more performance oriented, another who is technically oriented and the combination may work well. I have heard of advanced students studying with two teachers for that reason, but both teachers knowing about each other and approving. Then, I hear that there are camps and masterclasses. I'd be cautious on the premise that too many cooks spoil the broth, however.

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#933722 - 05/01/08 05:00 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11662
Loc: Canada
John, we posted at the same time.
 Quote:
Better teachers are leading students down a path of discovery, learning, and mastery. Occasional detours can be invigorating, but they can also be devestating or have negative results. Masterclasses can be very tough on a student's ego. And sometimes, the masterclass teacher may be teaching or approving a technique you want your student to avoid until they are more mature. Thus, caution is indicated
Thank you for that insight.

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#933723 - 05/01/08 05:08 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
We as teachers need to keep awareness of those students who are capable of making the long term grade through the study of music and work diligently with them, guiding in many ways besides where the music carries the interest.

We have a musical family in our studios, our students, their families, and the teacher.

We are also like mentors to the student. We are responsible for what we do. In return for I offer music education, artistry preparation, and theoretical insight, music appreciation, music history in my teaching. In depth education.

If you want casual lessons that you control so I make no demands on you, have no input on expressing what I want, and you vote with your feet with any and all of your teachers when you were tweaked with me, I frankly, do not want to have you in my studio. In my experience, with these situations, no one gains a thing. There is no responsibility to each other, there is no communication between us, there is no relationship being created.

If I can't give my being to you, and you are not willing to receive it, and you want only what you want to do, please see the nearest music store where they will agreeably meet your needs to the best of their ability for a price.

My time is valuable, and I choose to spend it with people who have an appreciation of the continuance of the art form of being a musician, and all things that it demands.

If this is offending someone, good. I am as offended as you, but I'm offended about what you think piano lessons are about.

This is education and art at it's best - regardless of the kind of music we choose to play. I like and teach all kinds of music, with a few exceptions.

Be careful in shopping for your teacher in the first place, so all of this potential conflict comes out before you get started. I want to spare you the problems we will have together, and I want to spare myself, too.

I'm not being a smart a** here, this is my basic stance, and has been for a very long time, about teaching music.

Opinions differ among us because of the role we play in it. Each person must search and find their own place of comfort.

As to why we would be difficult about having our students performing somewhere, I'll just say I have reasons that many people would not understand, saying: "What's the big deal?"

If someone wants not to sign my contract, I'm glad they are able to refuse and find the circumstances they need. I will trust their judgment that it's not right for them. We are actually helping each other out arriving at that conclusion.

What might have been our cooperation and respect between each other has been sacrificed, and we will never know, what "the road less traveled" might have brought to us.

This is a piano teacher's forum that this is being posted into. I would like to feel understood in what I post about my philosophies concerning what the piano lesson experience involves. This is who I am, and what I believe, and it's my responsibility to keep this "oath" or "credo" to myself during my lifetime.

Betty

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#933724 - 05/01/08 05:35 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
tickler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 373
Loc: Chicagoland
Here's another situation where a student might want to take lessons from 2 different teachers.

Student #1 has teacher #1 for their regular lessons.

But then student #1 starts playing duets -- outside of their lessons -- with another player, student #2. This student #2 takes lessons from teacher #2.

The 2 students decide that they need an occasional lesson specifically for their duet playing, independent of their other studies. So they schedule a lesson with one of the teachers. Does the other teacher have grounds for complaint?

This is an actual example. I'm doing this currently -- playing duets with a friend and taking an occasional lesson with someone other than my primary piano teacher.

My teacher knows about the situation and duet the lessons. I've kept her fully informed about the duets and duet lessons. But I can imagine that others might not feel the need to do so.


Mary
_________________________
Music should strike fire from the heart of man, and bring tears from the eyes of woman. -- Beethoven
1911 Steinway A-II (2007 Rebuild)

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#933725 - 05/01/08 07:31 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11662
Loc: Canada
Betty, I have read your post over and over, and I am in confusion. I have even parsed it and I can't make sense of it. You seem to be so angry about something.

I thought that maybe it was the reaction to the "do not perform" contract that people reacted to, but you didn't even author that part.

There's a scenario of students being angry with teachers, doing whatever they want ... tons of stuff, and I see no signs of any of that in anything that has been written.

The non-performance clause is not yours, so I cannot ask you about it. It is possible that "performance" is understood differently by different people.

I visited elderly mother at Christmas and acquaintances asked for a musical evening. I ended up rehearsing and performing. There was a Haendel duet, Bach Ciaconne, piano performance by someone, violin solo. It was fairly formal affair so it was a performance.

Many people who take up music are by nature performers. Some of us already do perform. To suggest that for the years that they study with a particular teacher they would be forbidden to perform anywhere sets up a combination of panic and suffocation. You cannot have meant that.

Betty, nobody can be rejecting your policies because they are not sufficiently known. A potential student would have to be in your studio, discussing every item carefully with you - not reading a quick sketch over the Internet.

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#933726 - 05/01/08 07:47 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
tickler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 373
Loc: Chicagoland
Betty,

I, too, don't understand the thrust of your latest post. It sounds like you're angry, but I'm not sure about what.

I'd appreciate it if you'd clarify.


Mary
_________________________
Music should strike fire from the heart of man, and bring tears from the eyes of woman. -- Beethoven
1911 Steinway A-II (2007 Rebuild)

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#933727 - 05/01/08 07:48 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5462
Loc: Orange County, CA
I think what Betty was reacting to was the sheer lack of loyalty and dedication some piano students (or parents) exhibit. She was probably connecting with some personal experience. I know I had dealt with it before.

I know I have high expectations from my students because I expect that much from myself as a teacher. If I put in all this effort, only to find out the student has been seeing another teacher and/or performing in a venue where he could be mistaken as another teacher's student (all done without my knowledge), I'd be angry, too.

Note--I use the phrase "without my knowledge," not "without my permission." I'm sure if one of my students lets me know he's going to play at a talent show or another public performance, I'd be thrilled. But first I'd make sure he's ready to play that piece. Then I'd send him my blessings. Permission was never really the issue; it's knowledge.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#933728 - 05/01/08 07:54 PM Re: Speechless. . . now there's a first!
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5462
Loc: Orange County, CA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Betty Patnude:
If I can't give my being to you, and you are not willing to receive it, and you want only what you want to do, please see the nearest music store where they will agreeably meet your needs to the best of their ability for a price.
[/b]
O 'tis true, 'tis true.

One of my colleagues (who thinks and teaches like I do) once said there's a piano teacher for everyone. If the student doesn't follow her demanding instructions, she drops the student from her studio.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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