Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Do we always have to play classical piano as the composer intended ...through linage?

The initial half-bar is the beginning of 5 co-existent 1 note tunes. Some also combine to be 2 note themes. 3 note, 4 note and 5 note themes are also there. This is all in half a bar! And must be heard. Then add some affect.

And how would you add affect exactly?

By studying the performance practice of the period and Bach's intentions. To do it and not compromise all these tunes is a tall order. Sorry my quick analysis is unintelligible.

I forgot to say thanks for putting your money where your mouth is. We need more of this.

Don't worry about it. I couldn't agree more. I was just saying that I don't feel that those pauses were appropriately placed. This is just my opinion of course.

I know that the term 'rubato' means 'robbed' or to steal. However, it isn't just about pausing or slowing the tempo. I believe that good use of rubato should be balanced. A phrase may push on towards the climax and then hold back towards the end. The rhythm and pulse should always be clear though.

Morodiene, what are your thoughts on the chromatic fantasy? I find the notation for this to be very limited. Different editions vary dramatically. Is it really possible to notate it exactly how it should be played? There is huge potential to deviate from the score.

Chris:
I picked up a coupl eof versions of this piece, one edited by von Bulow, and another less "edited" version. The latter version may not be urtext (edited by Bischoff), but it is a lot less than what's in the Bulow one. One thing I noticed, for eaxmple, was that for the arpeggiated sections where Bach simply wrote the chords and left the arpeggiation up to the performer varied quite a bit between the versions, more rhythmic variations than notes. I prefer the Bischoff version in these sections because it arpeggiate the notes without really giving you rhythmic ideas. This I think provides enough information for me to decide where the rubato should be. The Bulow edition tries to notates the rhythm too precisely.

There are definitely decisions to be made, and I think by consulting with different performances and editions, you can decide for yourself what you like and what you don't like. Sometimes it's tough when you're given too much freedom.

Sandy B here. This is so very fun and educational too. I so appreciate educators, academics etc, who will strive to preserve classical piano music. To me classical piano music is a treasure to hold closely to my heart. Thank you so much for each and every post.

How do you like this recording?

Back Prelude 1

Well played, and, I'm sure, much closer to the liking of the purists, but, to me, it exemplifies how this music can be technically correct, and still be lifeless and emotionless. The lack of variation in dynamics and timing makes me want to sit and just rock my head side to side like a metronome. Maybe that's what Bach wanted, but it isn't my cup of tea. Mind you, I am not criticizing your playing at all.

MA, I did not find anything lifeless and emotionless about your recording. In fact I found it delicate, intimate, personal and very beautiful. I heard your variation in dynamics and tempo; they were subtle just as they should be. This music is all about simplicity and I like the way you let it speak for itself.

I really don't like it when performers feel that they have to make dramatic gestures in order to appear expressive. Yes of course it is important to add a touch of your own personality to a performance, but this doesn't mean that you should take liberties by adding things which are not stylistically appropriate or musical. What MA's recording does is transfer this music to the piano, using its resources, in a way which is sympathetic to what the composer might have been trying to achieve. That is what it is all about.

Just for the record, I do not make dramatic gesutres when I play. And there is evidence that Bach intended the playing to be more than just the notes on the page. Most people these days do not go far enough, and so Bach becomes simple-sounding, even though it is most complex.

Sorry I came in late ... but couldn’t resist picking up on a Chris H comment ... with which I heartily agree.

There is a right way to play the piano and interpret what the composer wrote ... going rubato balmy as free-thinking CC2 ... in his iconoclastic distortion of the Bach WTC Prelude 1 ... is obviously loopy with his hilarious subjective holding of certain notes ... but then perhaps there are some who like to meddle with one of the axial components ... perhaps CC2 would like to see a jazzed up version of the White House ... a circus mirror grotesque from the addled scrapbook of Xxx Xxxxx.

web page

Crazy like I mean Wow!!

btb,
Your ignorance is exceeded only by your highly offensive and insulting comments. Comparing me to Xxx Xxxxx, in ANY way, shape or form, is crossing the line. You have NO idea who I am and what I am about, and to personalize this discussion in such an inappropriate way is the mark of a real coward. It is easy to hide behind an anonymous tagline on a website and cast disparaging remarks at someone's integrity. If I had you here in front of me I could guarantee you would not have the courage to say that to my face.

Get real CC2 ... sorry to have unintentionally pressed a button ... but if you muck around with
the music of JS Bach ... perhaps the most respected of all musical composers ... you must
expect flak ... anytime you want to step outside ... be my guest ... I stand 6'2" and weigh
200 lbs and was an international sportsman and played to a 6 golf handicap ... lighten up old chap ... you lit the fuse.

There's flak and then there's flak "old chap"....and you crossed a line. As far as your attempt at intimidation with your pathetic description of yourself as a big golfer, you would go down so hard and fast, you would hardly have time to know what hit you.

It should be played in a way that expresses something. It should capture the imagination and sound fresh. Dynamics and tempos are negotiable. Nobody is calling for changing the actual notes.

Thank you for that voice of reason. You may not like my version, but at least you are open to adding some variation. These folks that are so riled up at the fact that I have violated Bach's intent for his music can't seem to reconcile the fact that they violate his intent every time they play his music on a modern piano. Having had no availability of a truly comparable instrument in his day, he could not have intended his music for one. So, technically speaking, they are all just as guilty as I am. The big difference is, I am fully aware that this is not the way Bach intended the piece to be played, AND, I am fully capable of playing it conventionally. I just don't think that it was such a big deal to post the recording that I did. Never, in my wildest dreams, did I think I'd be compared to Bin Laden for doing so. People on this site can be REALLY whacky sometimes.

CC2, I sincerely hope that you do not feel that I think anything of the kind. You are free to do whatever you like with Bach's music. I never said that you have violated his intent. If you re-read my posts on this thread you will see that it was only the use of dramatic pauses in your recordings that I did not agree with. The reasons I gave for this were nothing to do with what the composer intended. I have no problem whatsoever with anyone adding variation in dynamics, tempo, articulation, ornamentation, pedal etc. In fact, if you are to play this music on the piano (which I prefer) then there is no reason why you shouldn't make full use of its expressive capibilities. Listen again to the recording posted by MA. All of these pianistic qualities are present, they are just a little more subtle. If I prefer this style of playing it doesn't make me a bad person and it certainly does not make me 'whacky'. There was no need for btb to insult you in the way that he did. Everybody is entitled to their own opinions, that's what makes these forums so great.

Honestly, I didn't hear any expressive qualities in MA's recording, unless your definition of expression are dynamics and voicing. Those things are good and necessary skills, but there's so much more to expression than just those two. Why would anyone think Bach played only what he wrote on the page, and nothing more? Wouldn't he have interpreted his own music, and expected that of other performers of his music?

There is also so much more to expression than simply playing out of time.

Nobody said anything about playing only what is on the page. This is a starting point. It is the job of the performer to give a musical and stylistically appropriate interpretation. I am afraid that there are limits and boundaries to this. If you start changing this that and the other then will you not reach the point where you are no longer playing the same composition?