I would like to open the door to a broad exploration of a broad topic: the interaction of teachers and students through the medium of the Internet in any or all facets that this can occur, and any aspect of teaching, learning, or other - whatever might come to mind.

The range of interactions that I can come up with at the spur of the moment: forums such as this one with participation in general discussions, in which at some point teachers and students meet in regards to a general musical or technical matter, or something quite specific. A particular student may be struggling with a specific thing, or a teacher or advanced student may want to share or stress a concept or technique. Learning takes place, that is, what a student does is impacted by this.

There can be video or sound demos and comments and advice on the same. There can be exchanges per e-mail of a general or very specific lesson-like nature, again with or without video or sound.

One thing that is common to all of the above is that they are frozen in time, and do not occur in real time. A message is posted, or a video, by someone who is alone. The message is read by another person who is alone and has no access to the OP. Each tries to communicate and share in isolation, then to comprehend the message, again in isolation.

Another interaction which is still cybernetic is where a teacher and a student, or several, get together via videocam. The frozen in time aspect disappears. It occurs in real time with immediate and constant interaction. This can be something informal, a once-only exploration or full consultation, or even a series of lessons.

There are some obvious things: In most scenarios you have strangers who don't know each other's real background, so a student doesn't know whether he is being given anything reliable, and a teacher doesn't know what is safe to impart and what might be understood. A second obvious thing is you cannot be sure that the message or question has been properly understood. As students and as teachers we must be careful about any and all impressions and exercise much more caution than in a live exchange. Additionally, an on-line exchange affects everyone else who is participating by reading. those are the obvious things.

I've been thinking of the nature of lessons themselves. They happen in real time, and consist of a constant unbroken interchange. For the simplest example, something is taught, the student thinks he understood, the teacher sees something and can say "no, this way", and if there is a misunderstanding, the teacher can also see the nature of the misundersting through body language. All of that is missing. Even though an intellectual understanding appears to be there, the essential might be missing.

Are there more subtle ramifications to this aspect of frozen time? In live lessons, as a student I do not just learn what I am being taught directly. I pick up things on a subconscious level through the body language or behaviour of a teacher as he deals with musical matters. The action of working on instructions during a lesson, what happens from moment to moment duirng that work in the exchange, which can range from an active intervention as in "stop, play louder" to a barely raised eyebrow and a nod - these things penetrate our being and the nature of our playing, becoming part of our practicing. There is a form of understanding that is created through the interchange and the action which goes beyond the thought process. This is totally lacking in the cybernetic model.

An experienced teacher, on the other hand, reads and absorbs a multitude of things simultaneously during the exchange, and these varying impressions tell him many things about his student, toward what he needs to be guided, and how. The gathering of these impressions would seem important.

There is also for both such a teacher and an experienced student, a habit of immediacy. You respond to this thing, now, and you interact.

None of that exists in the cybernetic model. It is of a different nature. Part of exchanges consists of knowing what you are dealing with - all these impressions that happen in live lessons. Do you gather enough correct information about what a person is teaching, your understanding of it which is physical and musical, not only intellectual, and does the teacher gather enough information on all levels to know whether and how he has been understood?

Does something need to replace the impressions that happen in live lessons: more detailed explanations? Vigilance by frequently checking on feedback of what seems to be understood? Can a habit of immediacy lead to the illusion of immediacy? In the familiar environment of learning and teaching, can words create the illusion of comprehension, or can words in fact be a mask because a person talks differently than he acts, with no intention of disguise? The most important thing would seem to be whether information has been received accurately and remains that way.

Personally I have drawn the conclusion at this point in time that in Internet exchanges there is a high probability of misunderstanding, and the stance of taking this into account at any time.

These are some very random thoughts with no particular aim. It is the culmination of my experiences, and those of friends an acquaintances, and goes beyond music, but mostly involves music.

Very interesting topic. I think the use of the internet in teaching is becoming increasingly relevant. On-line lessons are something which I can't imagine getting into, at least not for the time being, although I feel they will become more and more popular in the future. There are many advantages which were highlighted in a previous thread. You have access to many more students who can be available at any time of day considering different time zones around the world. For me though, I feel the interaction between teacher and student needs to be face to face on a regular basis. I know you can achieve this with web cams but it just isn't the same. It's not as personal IMO.

Forums like this and sites offering information can be useful but you need to be careful. Don't believe everything you read as it is usually just opinion and not based on fact. Take it with a pinch of salt and make up your own mind about things.

Where the internet is useful is as a resource for recordings and video in particular. I love the fact that you can find video footage of real people playing just about anything on youtube. It is great to see well known pianists perform this way. Be careful though as there are many different interpretations of a piece, some good and some not so good.

There is nothing like having a teacher present. Or a student...whichever side you are reading this from.

But if I had the time, I would explore teaching online. Or using the internet interactively with a student or group of students.

Certain things would have to be set up for it to work - each having a camcorder or zoom recorder and possibly a webcam.

Ways this could help educate?

Students who live in the boonies could have lessons where they might not otherwise with no (good) local teachers.

Agorophobics and otherwise shy pianists could get help.

And, well, the list could go on.

Oh, other than teaching, I would love to be an online student with a concert pianist or prof who could give me pointers after seeing a video.

Again, location would be the hinderence for a private in person lesson.

You can really only make general comments based on a video clip. For a start you are only seeing it from one limited camera angle unless multiple cameras are used. Also, there is always a loss of sound quality. In particular, dynamics are often hard to pick out on video recordings. In order to teach my students I need to hear and see them perform a passage several times to work out exactly what the problem might be. This is not the same as watching the clip several times. For example, an error might be a one off or it could be there permanently. They could be using a different fingering each time which would not show on the recording.

I give online math lessons at www.aristotletutors.com . I've had this business for several years now, and it seems to be doing OK. Students appear to find it helpful.

The way I teach is over Skype (so I'm talking to the student) and an interactive whiteboard on my website (so I can draw pictures or see what the student is drawing). I find that it does take more effort on my part to hold the child's attention and to know what the child is doing. It works better for some kids than for others.

I'm not sure that online lessons could work well for piano - a piano teacher needs to be there to detect minute signs of tension in the hands and other signs of faulty technique. You don't get very much information through a remote connection.

However, one possible aspect for which online lessons could work very well is jazz improvisation/theory. I'm actually hoping to convince one of the stars of the ragtime world to give me online lessons in that. As long as the physical aspect of piano lessons is not involved, and the lesson concerns purely mental activity, I think online lessons would work well. But both parties have to be receptive to that sort of thing in order for it to work.