A trace/echo is left after the activity and consolidated by the nervous system. This takes time. It's chemistry, there's no short cuts. Young people don't know this.

What??!!!

You mean all those wonder kids on Youtube have actually played before?

Are you saying that they have put in hundreds of practice hours since the age of 3?

What a con. I thought they just had 'the gift'.

'the gift' is chemical.

Does it happen the same way for old people?

Do bears..., but they (old people not bears) should know better.

I think that young people are not really interested. They are only bothered about now. Adults will be interested and can understand the concept but they want to know exactly how long it will take.

That is also asking too much.

It is a maturity thing. The only thing you an hope for is that you get a child who is unusually mature and realizes the benefit of hard work. However, I have encountered this a lot with adults too. They want it all *yesterday*. The best we can hope for with the children is that we instill the concept that the more hard work you do, the better the rewards, so that when they return to piano as adults, they are ready to do the work.

Kbk, do you mean this chemistry literally - as in, for example, physiological changes that happen in the brain as a result of neural stimulus as a result of practising?

yes.

KBK, what would you say to Abby Whiteside who says: "There are precious few shortcuts on the path to perfection...good imagery is one"

A perfect use of imagery (that transforms something that is already known to the subconcious and neuromuscular system into an impulse useful for piano technique), has done the trick for me on a handful of occasions.

I am certainly agreeing that it is the exception rather than the norm.

Chris H, I loved the youtube point. Why is it that we pianists have to constantly struggle to get "mozart" off of our back. I have never heard an accountant or doctor or lawyer claim that years of study were not necessary to achieve their position.

-P-

I wonder if one reason that adults have a reputation for 'wanting too much too fast' and getting frustrated is that adults often have 'goal' pieces in the advanced repertoire that they desperately want to play, while kids are less likely to *start* piano lessons with an advanced goal piece in mind and just enjoy playing particular beginner or intermediate pieces they 'find' in their methods books?

ummm, OK, I'm not sure I even understand this thread, but were you trying to say that it takes a lot of practice to learn something? In that case, do you mean that in the general sense (the overall skill of piano playing) or the specific sense (the work you are currently practicing)? I may be crazy but I would SWEAR it took me much less time to learn something when I was younger. By learn, I mean I know it, and I know that I know it. It seems now that I'm older I spend many more runthroughs in what I'd consider glorified sight-reading...it does get more familiar and predictable over time but it takes so long to get to the "I know exactly what is coming next" stage. And also, (this may be related somehow), it is easy to assimilate and reperfect stuff I learned a couple decades ago. It is like there is a special memory bank for that stuff, but it isn't processing memory as fast now. I'm only 38! Any thoughts on this? If I am totally off-base on the topic then ignore all this

Yes it does but what I'm saying is that the learning is a chemical process that goes on in the nervous system mostly after the activity that initiated it. For most children (and I suppose some adults) it's like equating shopping with eating. In reality you shop then you eat. I'm sure there is a reason why with age it isn't so efficient.

Which means that whenever you practice you better make sure you are doing it right.

We are a product of our good habits in piano practice - the brain has been taking everything we do there and storing it for retrieval.....so avoid making mistakes in the first place.

You knew you were programming yourself, didn't you?

Did you think none of that practice mattered?

Eye popping, isn't it! (typo corrected)

Betty

Eye popping? well, yes, but discouraging is more the word that comes to mind for me! Sooo, does anyone know if that chemical process can be sped up? Obviously I practiced most when I took lessons. After 12th grade it was hit or miss, not a lot a time for messing around on the piano so it was mostly practicing if I had some goal to work for (ex. accompanying my husband's senior recital). I've played in church settings for over a decade now but none of that stretches me too much except the odd choir tune here and there. But if I forced myself to practice significant amounts of time daily would the learning process get speedier again, more like when I was young? I have been near the point of tears of frustration at how slow it can be, at times. I now play for 5 high school choirs. Much of what I play is sightreadable. Some is not. Usually, two or three pieces, per concert, seriously stretch me. I can play several measures dozens of times, come back an hour later and feel like I'm just doing it for the first time. I spent probably 8 hours over the course of a weekend to learn a stupid four-page thing that just was NOT working for me. And that was just to be able to get from one end to the other, not even sounding all that great. WHY???

I think that is done with a catalyst but getting one into the nervous system is kinda out of the question.

When I was young, I could memorize a lot easier. This is because I looked at my hands and not the music. I also played considerably simpler songs that were easier to grasp. They made me feel warm in fuzzy inside often. Now that warm and fuzzy feeling comes less often since the material is harder.

I think some of my students hate to see me play because it looks so easy for me. They don't believe me when I tell them what it took...

I memorize more easily now than I did when I was young. When I was young, I depended on muscle memory and luck.

The problem is that I find memorizing a pain!

A memorizing session is a real gird your loins kinda thing for me too. It helps to bear in mind this topic though - unless it's really simple, the chemistry will happen when you're away from the keyboard. Rather than push hard, wait and see!