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#941878 - 02/24/08 10:04 AM Interpretation or manipulation?
Innominato Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 802
Loc: London
Ladies and Gentlemen, from another thread dealing with a different matter, an example of played music which is different from the sheet music, but with pleasant results... I have the sheet music in front of me, have heard the piece many times and am pretty sure that the lady of the video does not follow the sheet music I have (one cannot see the hands well, but can see the movements of the fingers and the correspondence to the (audible) sounds, unless there's something I am missing of course.....)

Would like to know your opinion...
----------------------------------------------

Have you seen this video:

(Danny's message)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9mtHQ2bLkU

(my answer)
Very interesting and very surprising: she simplifies the piece and changes the chord, or is working with an arrangement of the piece.

Measure 5 (note: this is when the second motive kicks in after the first motive has been introducted and repeated) calls on the RH for "crome" (how do you say "croma"? Is not a car of course.. ;\) ..); there are 6 for the whole 3/4 measure, the first three of which are supposed to go together with the chord and the remaining three should be played whilst the LH holds the B (si), the last note of the chord.

She obviously changes by playing only three of the notes of the measure (she plays 1,3 and 5, which "sustain the melody"), and "beefs up" the whole thing by playing the chord twice along the measure instead of only once as in the sheet music I have.

I must say the result is very pleasant and much easier to play, but I always wonder how these things happen:

1) does she have a different sheet music print?

2) Is it acceptable / normal / frequently used to "adapt" the melody to your preferences? (my old teacher would have had me boiled in camel's ****, but it's not about her..)

3) could it be that her teacher just advised her to simplify the RH to avoid the strain for the hand (which is there, definitely) or the technical difficulty?
_________________________
"The man that hath no music in himself / Nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds / Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils." (W.Shakespeare)

Kemble Conservatoire 335025 Walnut Satin

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#941879 - 02/24/08 10:13 AM Re: Interpretation or manipulation?
Innominato Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 802
Loc: London
On the same youtube page, on the right, the lucamusimac video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nti1sBqJfmg&feature=related

has a beautiful recording from above and clearly shows (starting from 00:17) the whole sequence 1-2-3-4-5-6) (that is for you D-F-C-E-A-B and for me
re-fa-do-mi-la-re).

Am I "missing" the notes on the first video? Or were they really skipped?
_________________________
"The man that hath no music in himself / Nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds / Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils." (W.Shakespeare)

Kemble Conservatoire 335025 Walnut Satin

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#941880 - 02/24/08 12:38 PM Re: Interpretation or manipulation?
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11848
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
how do you say "croma"?
Got out my multilingual music dictionary --- eighth note. What is that in British? One of the hemi demis?

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#941881 - 02/24/08 03:35 PM Re: Interpretation or manipulation?
arp Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 64
Loc: Solihull, England
 Quote:
Originally posted by keystring:
 Quote:
how do you say "croma"?
Got out my multilingual music dictionary --- eighth note. What is that in British? One of the hemi demis? [/b]
A quaver, actually.

http://www.music.vt.edu/musicdictionary/appendix/notation/notation.html

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#941882 - 02/25/08 03:31 AM Re: Interpretation or manipulation?
Innominato Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 802
Loc: London
Thanks, "quaver" it is then.... \:\)

Anyone who wants to see the videos of the original posting and see whether I am plain wrong of there is some "interpretation" going on, and if yes, how common is this?

Thanks
Innominato
_________________________
"The man that hath no music in himself / Nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds / Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils." (W.Shakespeare)

Kemble Conservatoire 335025 Walnut Satin

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#941883 - 02/25/08 05:58 AM Re: Interpretation or manipulation?
Danny Niklas Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 905
Loc: Switzerland
I say "croma" too \:\)
And we have the "semibiscrome" too

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#941884 - 02/25/08 11:06 AM Re: Interpretation or manipulation?
Innominato Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 802
Loc: London
Thanks, Danny.

Anyone who wants to see the videos of the original posting and see whether I am plain wrong of there is some "interpretation" going on, and if yes, how common is this?

Thanks
Innominato
_________________________
"The man that hath no music in himself / Nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds / Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils." (W.Shakespeare)

Kemble Conservatoire 335025 Walnut Satin

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#941885 - 02/25/08 12:42 PM Re: Interpretation or manipulation?
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12215
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Innominato,

Generally speaking, if the performer is sightreading and/or accompanying, then some modifying of the music may be necessary to make it playable. Also, if a person is nervous or has a memory blank, they may have to ad lib to cover it up. Is it possible that is what this person is doing? This is not necessarily considered classical music, but rather a crossover of sorts. If it were something classical then I'd say one needs to stay true to the score. In other genres, however, some ad libbing is allowed. It's also possible that she chose to play it that way because it was easier, she couldn't play it as written, or simply misread and didn't have a teacher to point out the error to her. So it's really hard to say when listening to a performance if any of these apply (of course, not the sightreading or accompanying in this instance). When it comes down to a performance, one has to be a little more forgiving.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#941886 - 02/28/08 01:28 PM Re: Interpretation or manipulation?
Danny Niklas Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 905
Loc: Switzerland
Have you found a solution Innominato?
I'm not familiar with this specific piece and I don't have the sheet so I can't help much but I have asked around and the consensus seems that pedal is needed. Have you found the forum Einaudi expert?
Had a chance to look another sheet?

Don't worry too much about manipulation.
Real composers expected performers to add something on their own to the music and to use their own sensitivity and creativity to find out the correct tempo, what kind of interpretation and dynamic to use. Or either they were against the performing of their own pieces. Yes certain indications were given but those who were okay with having their pieces performed by others weren't really anxious about the piece being performed exactly as they thought it should be performed or with making the sheet so precise as to what the intention of the composers are.

The fact that nowadays in accademies there are teachers who aspect their composition students to put a dynamic sign over each note really shows the worrying status of accademic music nowadays. How many have abandoned creativity and open-minded for pure stylistic mannerism and dogmatism and how many have completely missed the forest for the trees.

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#941887 - 02/28/08 01:41 PM Re: Interpretation or manipulation?
Innominato Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 802
Loc: London
No solution yet.

I have tried with a book as pedestal, but the whole thing is extremely weird anyway, the pedal sits too high.

I have adjourned to when the tuner comes and I will ask him to adjust the pedal so that it sits as low as possible. After that I will reassess the situation, in case procuring myself a real board, broad and stable, and start again from there.

The only alternative might be to become rich, move in a huge place and buy a wonderful grand piano with conveniently low pedals.. ;\)

I am less worried for Einaudi (I very much like the sound of it without the pedal), more for the Gymnopedie, where I do believe that the extensive use of the pedal does add to the spirit of the music as I would like to play it.
_________________________
"The man that hath no music in himself / Nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds / Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils." (W.Shakespeare)

Kemble Conservatoire 335025 Walnut Satin

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