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#942850 - 09/18/08 10:00 AM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
rodmichael Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 334
Loc: Maryland
 Quote:
Originally posted by RayMetz100:
I will teach just about anyone piano if they live near the Everett area in Washington State. As you can tell from my link, I'm not great at all, but I'm better than 99% of other people in my city so I don't find it unreasonable to teach them.

...Even if paid, that's what makes [A]merica great. How would you like to live in North Korea and file a "letter of intent to teach music" and the fee or whatever BS they require... [/b]
I think Ray makes an astounding point and one alluded to by a few others in this thread.

I'd say that all of the offended "professional" piano teachers out there should get off their high horse and just thank God they are free to do their thing, totally unregulated except for income taxes and FICA which I'm sure they all pay as good honest Obama taxpayers.
_________________________
Rod Michael
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Yamaha CGP-1000, SN UCNZ01010
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#942851 - 09/18/08 10:11 AM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
childofparadise2002 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/13/04
Posts: 542
I've asked the question before on this forum: if one wants to teach college, high school, elementary school, or even preschool, certifications and stringent tests are a must--here in the US, I'm not talking about North Korea. But there is no regulation at all as to who can give private piano lessons. On the one hand there are many unqualified teachers, but on the other hand in areas where qualified teachers are in shortage, do we want to see that kids learn "something" from unqualified teachers or do we want them to not learn piano at all?

On the other note I think this lady who knows that she is not qualified (if she is as honest to her student as she is to the store clerk) would be a better teacher than those who are not qualified but have no idea that they are not qualified.

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#942852 - 09/18/08 10:28 AM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7384
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Of course, Rod, we should be thankful for the hundreds of teachers like Ray, who charge $15/lesson and can barely play themselves, let alone teach others. And we should take it a step further. I think the government should get totally out of regulation - let physicians charge what they want (and require insurance and medicare/medicaid to fully reimburse them), anyone who can use pliers should be able to hand out a sign for dentistry, stop regulating hair dressers and barbers, no licenses for public school teachers, plumbers, mechanics, home builders, etc.

Nor do I see any reason for the FDA, restaurant inspections, food handler permits, etc. After all, I can cook better than 99% of people in my city, so I don't find it unreasonable that I should cook for them.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#942853 - 09/18/08 11:33 AM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
dumdumdiddle Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 1265
Loc: California
I think that the problem with many music stores is that they have teachers teaching there that aren't members of MTNA or other professional music organization, thus they aren't as informed about the newest methods and composers out there.

I realize that I'm making somewhat of a generalization here. We have two music stores in my town. One has 5 piano teachers, all of whom use Alfred. None are certified or members of MTAC (or have any desire to join.... we've tried but they're not interested). The other store in town has 5 teachers, 3 of them MTAC members, with 1 of them heading up the sheet music dept. The difference in quality and variety of music is very apparent.

Teachers who are members of professional organizations are generally exposed to much more variety in piano methods and repertoire. Their local branches hold workshops, their annual conventions feature clinicians like Randall Faber, Dennis Alexander, Melody Bober, Kevin Olson, Eungenie Rocherolle, and Robert Vandall. It was when I attended my first convention that I discovered an entire world of new music that I never knew existed.

I complained to the first music store about how disorganized their sheet music dept was, with just the 'same old, same old' stuff there. Their reply was that they stock what teachers want. Teachers want Alfred so they don't carry a wide variety of other methods. Also, sheet music takes up a large part of any store and profits are small; you make much more money selling a piano or other instrument (and taking up less space).
_________________________
Music School Owner
Early Childhood Music Teacher/Group Piano Teacher/Private Piano Teacher
Member of MTAC and Guild

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#942854 - 09/18/08 11:35 AM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by childofparadise2002:
[D]o we want to see that kids learn "something" from unqualified teachers or do we want them to not learn piano at all?[/b]
That "something" could well be harmful. Who undoes the damage?

There should be something comparable to the physician's Hippocratic oath.

Some students might be resilient enough not to suffer long-term consequences, others might be resistant to what intuitively doesn't feel right, but I doubt that it's the norm. A child, especially, is vulnerable to the power and authority of a teacher.

As Gary suggested in the "strange first lesson" thread, it's better to remain a clean slate than to be poisoned by nonsense.

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#942855 - 09/18/08 11:48 AM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
childofparadise2002 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/13/04
Posts: 542
 Quote:
Originally posted by sotto voce:
 Quote:
Originally posted by childofparadise2002:
[D]o we want to see that kids learn "something" from unqualified teachers or do we want them to not learn piano at all?[/b]
That "something" could well be harmful. Who undoes the damage?

[/b]
I know, that's why I put the word in quotation mark. But I think it is a difficult question. My family has always lived in areas where classical music is an important part of community and there are many great teachers around. But there are areas where resournces for music education is very limited, but musical talent is not.

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#942856 - 09/18/08 12:00 PM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
Sure, but musical talent—whether blatant or latent—is always abundant; that's human nature. How many potential Beethovens could be in our midst who've never had any opportunity to express (or even be aware of) their potential?

Bad tuition won't help talent thrive, and could cause irreversible damage.

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#942857 - 09/18/08 12:55 PM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
rodmichael Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 334
Loc: Maryland
 Quote:
Originally posted by John v.d.Brook:
Of course, Rod, we should be thankful for the hundreds of teachers like Ray, who charge $15/lesson and can barely play themselves, let alone teach others. And we should take it a step further. I think the government should get totally out of regulation - let physicians charge what they want (and require insurance and medicare/medicaid to fully reimburse them), anyone who can use pliers should be able to hand out a sign for dentistry, stop regulating hair dressers and barbers, no licenses for public school teachers, plumbers, mechanics, home builders, etc.

Nor do I see any reason for the FDA, restaurant inspections, food handler permits, etc. After all, I can cook better than 99% of people in my city, so I don't find it unreasonable that I should cook for them. [/b]
So John, should I interpret from your mildly sarcastic note that you would prefer having piano teachers regulated by the government; that all piano teachers should pass a board exam of some sort; that all should have to pay for some kind of liability insurance in case a student gets some kind of tendinitis that's debilitating or to protect against some other piano "malpractice;" that there should be an annual $350 license fee to teach piano; that there should be periodic re-qualification boards for piano teachers; and on and on....

Then we could all pay for piano lessons that would cost about $350/hr and then piano teachers really would have to declare their income (all of it) and pay quarterly FICA and all the rest. Of course they would have to sertify that their pianos are always in tune. Wouldn't it be wonderful for piano teachers to be regulated.

Of course one riposte might be that teaching piano isn't exactly brain surgery and that would be correct and that was my point.
_________________________
Rod Michael
Mason & Hamlin AA, SN 93018
Yamaha CGP-1000, SN UCNZ01010
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#942858 - 09/18/08 01:03 PM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11968
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
 Quote:
Originally posted by rodmichael:


I'd say that all of the offended "professional" piano teachers out there should get off their high horse and just thank God they are free to do their thing, totally unregulated except for income taxes and FICA which I'm sure they all pay as good honest Obama taxpayers. [/b]
Well, I do pay my taxes, but I don't support Obama, not sure what that has to do with anything. This is the best country in the world to live in, I am convinced of that, but again, what does that have to do with what we're talking about? I don't think demanding quality has anything to do with high horses or being ungrateful for what we can do. Even when I just started out teaching, I was more than qualified, if unexperienced. No one is getting on anyone's case here for the lady's "inexperience" as a teacher, simply her inexperience at playing the instrument that she is supposed to teach!
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#942859 - 09/18/08 01:10 PM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
rodmichael said: "...teaching piano isn't exactly brain surgery..."

No not surgery, but it is brain programming.

Output is only as good as it's input.

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#942860 - 09/18/08 01:15 PM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
Minaku Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 1226
Loc: Atlanta
 Quote:
Originally posted by rodmichael:
So John, should I interpret from your mildly sarcastic note that you would prefer having piano teachers regulated by the government; that all piano teachers should pass a board exam of some sort; that all should have to pay for some kind of liability insurance in case a student gets some kind of tendinitis that's debilitating or to protect against some other piano "malpractice;" that there should be an annual $350 license fee to teach piano; that there should be periodic re-qualification boards for piano teachers; and on and on....

Then we could all pay for piano lessons that would cost about $350/hr and then piano teachers really would have to declare their income (all of it) and pay quarterly FICA and all the rest. Of course they would have to sertify that their pianos are always in tune. Wouldn't it be wonderful for piano teachers to be regulated.

Of course one riposte might be that teaching piano isn't exactly brain surgery and that would be correct and that was my point. [/QB]
Are you suggesting that piano teachers actively deceive the government and do so on a regular basis?

Them's fightin' words!

Edit: Agreed with Morodiene. Obama and politics have nothing to do with the topic at hand, and mentioning him just makes you sound like a frothing Republican.
_________________________
Pianist and teacher with a 5'8" Baldwin R and Clavi CLP-230 at home.

New website up: http://www.studioplumpiano.com. Also on Twitter @QQitsMina

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#942861 - 09/18/08 01:16 PM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7384
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Mildly sarcastic? Rod, I intended my post to be extremely sarcastic. Apparently I failed!

It is extremely difficult to teach what you yourself cannot do. Ray seems to feel that it is right and proper that he hang out a shingle to teach, because he can now belt out (poorly) a few tunes out of a primer level book. Caveat emptor.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#942862 - 09/18/08 01:28 PM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5506
Loc: Orange County, CA
I smell a troll.

Please don't feed the troll.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#942863 - 09/18/08 01:31 PM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5506
Loc: Orange County, CA
 Quote:
Originally posted by dumdumdiddle:
One has 5 piano teachers, all of whom use Alfred. None are certified or members of MTAC (or have any desire to join.... we've tried but they're not interested [/b]
There's one exactly like that near where I live. Maybe we're talking about the same one! I used to get transfers from that place. Every student is stuck in "hand positions" and can't read notes if their lives depended on it.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#942864 - 09/18/08 02:14 PM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
dumdumdiddle Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 1265
Loc: California
I'm in California, but not LA. I guess my situation is not unique.
_________________________
Music School Owner
Early Childhood Music Teacher/Group Piano Teacher/Private Piano Teacher
Member of MTAC and Guild

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#942865 - 09/18/08 02:25 PM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
Diane... Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 3450
Loc: Western Canada
I say we all should just quit teaching and go on the road like Elton John and then we'll see who really knows how to play that piano!

If the bucks don't start rolling in, go back to teaching! \:D
_________________________
http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/goldsparkledress.jpg
Diane
Jazz/Blues/Rock/Boogie Piano Teacher


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#942866 - 09/18/08 02:33 PM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2913
Loc: UK.
Must pick up on some of rodmichael's coments.

"So John, should I interpret from your mildly sarcastic note that you would prefer having piano teachers regulated by the government"

Definitely regulated in some way. Especially if they are working with children. School teachers have to be registered with the GTC (General Teaching Council) and are police checked.

"that all piano teachers should pass a board exam of some sort"

I think this would be a good idea. There should be testing of teaching ability in particular. Performing ability can be proven by diplomas and certificates etc.

"that all should have to pay for some kind of liability insurance in case a student gets some kind of tendinitis that's debilitating or to protect against some other piano "malpractice;" that there should be an annual $350 license fee to teach piano; that there should be periodic re-qualification boards for piano teachers; and on and on...."

I have liability insurance through the ISM (Incorporated Society of Musicians). The annual fee is £120.

I used to teach people to drive. I was required to complete a check test every couple of years to ensure my skills were up to standard. Music teachers should undergo the same testing IMO.

"Then we could all pay for piano lessons that would cost about $350/hr and then piano teachers really would have to declare their income (all of it) and pay quarterly FICA and all the rest."

I run a business as a piano teacher. It is how I make my living. All my income from teaching is declared and I pay my taxes. Despite this I don't feel the need to charge the kind of fee you suggest.

"Of course they would have to sertify that their pianos are always in tune. Wouldn't it be wonderful for piano teachers to be regulated."

My pianos are tuned 2 or 3 times a year. Since I have more than one piano it is not cheap but it would not be professional to teach on an out of tune piano.

Yes it would be wonderful for piano teachers to be regulated.
_________________________
Pianist and piano teacher.

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#942867 - 09/18/08 03:01 PM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4811
Loc: South Florida
 Quote:
Originally posted by Morodiene:
[QB] Gary, our local music store (which did finally reopen), is wonderful about stocking the things that we like to use. Of course, you can get whatever you want because of your "connections". I suppose there's some benefit to sleeping with your local music supplier :p .
:) It's not only my personal connection with her. She really is good at what she does, always totally on top of things. We used to have a selection that pulled in people from many places who could not find so much to look at, but some priorities were changed due to reorganizing the store, leaving less room not only to display things but also to store them, and the economy has also made the store more conservative about keeping anything that does not sell quickly.
 Quote:

Anyways, this woman keeps new things as well, to help us teachers find out what's new. However, she always tells me that I would be surprised as to how many teachers in the area still use Thompson and Schaum in spite of the great strides in pedagogy.
Exactly. I've carefully examined so many methods over the years that I almost instantly recognize anything that is in more than one book. I looked at a method yesterday. Almost immediately I saw that it used the same tune called "Moravian Waltz", from one of the Diller-Quaile books. However, a very nice arrangement was dumbed down until there was nothing left. The melody was left unchanged, but the LH was simplified until it removed what was essential. My point remains that there are probably a thousand tunes that could have been used there, instead, and by introducing the same tune in a later book, simplification would have been unnecessary.

I still think that a huge part of teaching is simply know when to teach something, and that is another thing that takes years of experience to get really good at. In fact, I hope to see more discussions in the future about more unusual books or sheet music that we all teach, to swap ideas about adding things.
 Quote:

If I ask her to stock something for my students, she will do that, and reorder when it sells. Otherwise, I can simply place an order and by the following week it will be in. What a blessing she is!
Our store will stock anything that any teacher uses regularly.
 Quote:

As for that woman who came into the store not knowing even how to play with her LH who was apparently going to be a piano teacher, boy that really angers me. Unless it is a person who is simply teaching a friend for fun, but even then, I don't think that is right.
We will never know for sure, but if she was just helping a friend, in which I really would not criticize her even though she may do a lot of harm, many others come into the store, claiming to be teachers. They are more than a handful of students.

There are also a few knowledgeable, dedicated teachers who come to the store, and I'm sure there are others whom I've never met!
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#942868 - 09/18/08 03:26 PM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
musiclady Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/05
Posts: 431
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Not every piano teacher who piano is a second instrument is a bad teacher. To me a bad teacher is a bad teacher, no matter what they teach. I find that I'm teaching the same principles and concepts between my clarinet and piano students. Think of some of the great school music teachers, some who may not have majored on the instrument most students are learning, but the teacher produces truly fine results with knowing how to teawch concepts such as rhythm, sight-reading, and ear training--in fact only one of my school music teachers was a clarinetist, (my major instrument). Even some of the physical principles of playing are similar between instruments--a few years ago my piano teacher (a professional pianist himself with a Masters in Piano and an ARCT in Piano--he also has Grade 10 Trombone) pointed out that I was lifting my shoulders while playing, and the fact that he discovered that also made playing clarinet easier.

And most of my students achieve marks in at least the 80s (they don't if they don't practice or don't care), some have even achieved 90s. So I think I know what I'm doing, even though piano is not my main instrument--though I put in a good amount of practice on it most days, I actually practice piano a lot more than clarinet, since I learn the clarinet stuff really quickly!

Meri
_________________________
Clarinet and Piano Teacher based out of Toronto, Canada.Web: http://donmillsmusicstudio.weebly.com

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#942869 - 09/18/08 03:26 PM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4811
Loc: South Florida
 Quote:
Originally posted by dumdumdiddle:
I think that the problem with many music stores is that they have teachers teaching there that aren't members of MTNA or other professional music organization, thus they aren't as informed about the newest methods and composers out there.
I'm not a member of MTNA or any other professional music organization.

My high school teacher was not only a member of the dominant organization here but also had a lot of power in that organization.

I would respectfully point out that although being connected to groups and systems may be an equalizer, filtering out people who are incompetent, it does not necessarily mean that someone who does not take part in them is not an effective teacher!
 Quote:

I complained to the first music store about how disorganized their sheet music dept was, with just the 'same old, same old' stuff there.
I think the store itself is "driven" by the teachers who use the stores. If many innovative buy their music in a store, the quality of the music offered there will improve. And if it doesn't, they will move their business elsewhere.

Because of my situation, I get to see anything that comes in. Much of it might not be kept (not my decision), but I will immediately examine anything new and buy it for myself if I like what I see.

The important thing, whether you are a member of an organization or not, is to stay open, never stop investigating, and be ready to change things at any moment if you see a better solution!
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#942870 - 09/18/08 03:40 PM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11968
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
 Quote:
Originally posted by musiclady:
Not every piano teacher who piano is a second instrument is a bad teacher. To me a bad teacher is a bad teacher, no matter what they teach. I find that I'm teaching the same principles and concepts between my clarinet and piano students. Think of some of the great school music teachers, some who may not have majored on the instrument most students are learning, but the teacher produces truly fine results with knowing how to teawch concepts such as rhythm, sight-reading, and ear training--in fact only one of my school music teachers was a clarinetist, (my major instrument). Even some of the physical principles of playing are similar between instruments--a few years ago my piano teacher (a professional pianist himself with a Masters in Piano and an ARCT in Piano--he also has Grade 10 Trombone) pointed out that I was lifting my shoulders while playing, and the fact that he discovered that also made playing clarinet easier.

And most of my students achieve marks in at least the 80s (they don't if they don't practice or don't care), some have even achieved 90s. So I think I know what I'm doing, even though piano is not my main instrument--though I put in a good amount of practice on it most days, I actually practice piano a lot more than clarinet, since I learn the clarinet stuff really quickly!

Meri [/b]
I also teach voice, but I can never tell which instrument is my "main" one...I love them both equally! But I agree, just because one can play an instrument well does not qualify them as a good teacher, but it sure helps.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#942871 - 09/18/08 04:11 PM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
Diane... Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 3450
Loc: Western Canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by dumdumdiddle:
Teachers who are members of professional organizations are generally exposed to much more variety in piano methods and repertoire. Their local branches hold workshops, their annual conventions feature clinicians like Randall Faber, Dennis Alexander, Melody Bober, Kevin Olson, Eungenie Rocherolle, and Robert Vandall. It was when I attended my first convention that I discovered an entire world of new music that I never knew existed.

[/b]
Can't exactly agree with you here. Most music stores that I support have my name on their list so when there is a seminar or workshop, they contact me by email or letter. So I have been exposed to all the new music that comes out.

And I did belong to piano teacher organizations and soon discovered that some of them have razor sharp teeth! All they did was complain about all the teacher who didn't belong to their organization/groups. At the same time talking down about each other that did belong to the group. So I left out the back door never to return. The competition between these teachers could be cut with a knife.

So I have piano teachers who I respect (some registered and some not, but who I can call upon at a moments notice, so I have all the support I need. And enough workshops and seminars to keep me out of trouble.

Pick your friends carefully. Just because they belong to an organization, doesn't always mean they want to support you!
_________________________
http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/goldsparkledress.jpg
Diane
Jazz/Blues/Rock/Boogie Piano Teacher


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#942872 - 09/18/08 04:30 PM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4811
Loc: South Florida
I don't think we should make automatic assumption about the teaching ability of people who are either in organizations or not organizations. I think such generalizations are unfair and even dangerous.
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#942873 - 09/18/08 04:38 PM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
dumdumdiddle Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 1265
Loc: California
Quote: "I would respectfully point out that although being connected to groups and systems may be an equalizer, filtering out people who are incompetent, it does not necessarily mean that someone who does not take part in them is not an effective teacher!"


I wasn't saying that only quality teachers are members of professional organizations and those who are not are not competent. What I was saying was that teachers who are members tend to have more opportunities to be introduced to new materials, new methods, etc.... because of the activities their branch will offer.

There are over 130 piano teachers in my town. 25 are members of MTNA/MTAC. One music store recently sponsored a workshop with a well-known clinician, promoting it to all piano teachers. 15 teachers were in attendance, 2/3 of them MTNA members.

There certainly are great teachers out there who are continually educating themselves on new methods, new music, innovative new ways of teaching. Likewise, there are teachers who hold membership in various organizations yet are still stuck teaching the same music the SAME way as they did 30 years ago.
_________________________
Music School Owner
Early Childhood Music Teacher/Group Piano Teacher/Private Piano Teacher
Member of MTAC and Guild

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#942874 - 09/18/08 05:03 PM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
pianoexcellence Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 753
Loc: Abbotsford, BC, Canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by Gary D.:
I don't think we should make automatic assumption about the teaching ability of people who are either in organizations or not organizations. I think such generalizations are unfair and even dangerous. [/b]
In Canada, becoming a registered music teacher requires a University degree or Conservatory Diploma.

I make an automatic assumption that a registered music teacher has relevant education.

I agree with you Gary that education does not make one a good teacher automatically, but it does help to weed out those who should not be teaching due to imcompetence. For many, this weeding out process is an important step in choosing a teacher. Others don't care at all.

There are some good accountants that do not belong to professional organizations. Myself being a non-informed purchaser of accounting services would always choose one who is a member because the organization's reputation demands that they adhere to standards. It is the first filter that I use to weed out the bottom feeders.

Is is dangerous to assume that a Chartered Accountant is better than someone who has not bothered to jump through their hoops? I may be missing out on a great non member, but I don't feel that danger.

Of course, there are many different music teachers organizations, and some may experience a higher level of community respect than others, and hence provide more of an incentive to teachers.
_________________________
Music is the surest path to excellence

Jeremy BA, ARCT, RMT
Pianoexcellence Tuning and Repairs

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#942875 - 09/18/08 06:28 PM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4811
Loc: South Florida
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianoexcellence:
I make an automatic assumption that a registered music teacher has relevant education.
I'm not sure I would qualify though, for registration. Yes, I have a degree, but it is a performance degree. I have no formal background in teaching. On paper, I don't know how to teach.

Having said that, I'm sure at least some people on this forum will now decide that I'm not a good teacher and may not take anything I say seriously in the future, because I don't have "credentials".

I hope this doesn't happen here, but I fear it. \:\(
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#942876 - 09/18/08 07:47 PM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
Diane... Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 3450
Loc: Western Canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by Gary D.:
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianoexcellence:
I make an automatic assumption that a registered music teacher has relevant education.
I'm not sure I would qualify though, for registration. Yes, I have a degree, but it is a performance degree. I have no formal background in teaching. On paper, I don't know how to teach.

[/b]
Yes I think because you have a performance degree, that qualifies you.

But being a registered music teacher (Canada anyways) doesn't make you well rounded in all teaching styles of piano playing.

Okay, I'm just going to vent if you don't mind.

I went to a registered music teacher to take jazz, and she couldn't teach it because she had not been taught jazz chord voicings. She was trying, but she had no knowlege of this.

So I compare registered music teachers to ballet teachers. Do I have to become a registered ballet instructor before I can dance the tango, salsa, cha cha, jive, etc. Let's hope not!

The piano is so multifaceted, that to lump all of us piano teachers into one mold seems outrageous! And the thought of monitoring teachers is just ridiculous.

That said, Ray Charles should not have played the piano then! Shame on his teacher for teaching him! Because his teacher probably wasn't a registered music teacher! \:D
_________________________
http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/goldsparkledress.jpg
Diane
Jazz/Blues/Rock/Boogie Piano Teacher


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#942877 - 09/19/08 01:05 AM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
pianoexcellence Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 753
Loc: Abbotsford, BC, Canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by Gary D.:
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianoexcellence:
I make an automatic assumption that a registered music teacher has relevant education.
I'm not sure I would qualify though, for registration. Yes, I have a degree, but it is a performance degree. I have no formal background in teaching. On paper, I don't know how to teach.

Having said that, I'm sure at least some people on this forum will now decide that I'm not a good teacher and may not take anything I say seriously in the future, because I don't have "credentials".

I hope this doesn't happen here, but I fear it. \:\( [/b]
Not me. I think you are good teacher because in my opinion, you know what you are talking about.
_________________________
Music is the surest path to excellence

Jeremy BA, ARCT, RMT
Pianoexcellence Tuning and Repairs

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#942878 - 09/19/08 01:09 AM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
pianoexcellence Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 753
Loc: Abbotsford, BC, Canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by Diane...:

But being a registered music teacher (Canada anyways) doesn't make you well rounded in all teaching styles of piano playing.

I went to a registered music teacher to take jazz, and she couldn't teach it because she had not been taught jazz chord voicings. She was trying, but she had no knowlege of this.

[/QB]
I agree and share the same experience. I also happen to be the jazz teacher in town, so I know that being a classically trained RMT does not prelcude me from teaching other styles as well.

I specialize, as do most of the other members in my organization.

All I said before is that I assume that an RMT has relevant education.
_________________________
Music is the surest path to excellence

Jeremy BA, ARCT, RMT
Pianoexcellence Tuning and Repairs

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#942879 - 09/19/08 01:17 PM Re: How many piano teachers really know anything?
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
Did we come up with a number of how many piano teachers know anything.

Is this like guess how many M&M's are in the glass jar?

What's the prize for knowing the number?

Actually, I find the title of this topic a little insulting and antagonistic.

Are we being judged by our least common denominators?

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