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I could not make this up. It is 100% true.
I work for a music story in my area. It was my choice to do so, largely for reasons of privacy. I am not told what to teach, how to teach, or who to teach. I'm not required to sell anything.
However, my wife works here too. She is in charge of ordering all the music.
A lady came into the store today. She asked my wife what she should use to teach an adult, someone who apparently plays by ear by wants to learn how to read music.
My wife showed her all sorts of materials. The lady bought "The Classic Piano Course", book one.
Now, this "teacher" admitted that she has not played piano in many years and "no longer knows bass clef". (She *was* a clarinet player.)
And on the way out, she said, "Me, a piano teacher, what a laugh!"
Now, how unusual would you think it is for this store to have to suggest to "teachers" what materials to buy for their students?
The answer is astonishing. My wife said that she knows of only four teachers who come in here, knowing exactly what they want, ordering what they need without asking for help.
And by the way, the Schaum books probably sell just about as often as any other method book. This is how I was able to tell, at a glance, that I teach nothing in them except one piece, which turns out to be cut or edited or shortened (Koelling).
So that's what we are up against.
Oh: my wife is not a musician. She knows what is out there and is pretty good at suggesting beginning materials because I went through every method book in the store and pointed out strengths and weaknesses in each one.
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Comes as no surprise to me Gary. Anyone can call themselves a piano teacher. I know a few who see it as a far better option than working the checkout in Tesco despite the fact that they can hardly play.
Pianist and piano teacher.
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It was only a slight surprise to me to find out that only four people know what they want.
I also have to special order anything for my students, since whenever I teach something that is not totally basic, it's so unusual for people to get it that it's not worth stocking.
We have no WTC books.
But we have LOTS of Schaum!!!
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Maybe you & your wife can gently "nudge" teachers toward Faber method books. I don't think they cost more than Schaum, but they're definitely better.
Schaum was quite the thing back in the '60s (along with Thompson, as I recall). Maybe those teachers are just using what they grew up with, not realizing how much improved today's methods are.
You might try inviting a representative from Alfred, Hal Leonard, or Kjos to your store to present a workshop for area teachers. Our local music store always has a waiting list for these, and the store sells LOTS of music that day!
Private piano & voice teacher for over 20 years; currently also working as a pipe organist for 3 area churches; sing in a Chicago-area acappella chamber choir
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I don't care how great the method book might be - as an adult student I would not want to be near someone like the person who was described. In that case, spare me the "teacher" - give me the book. There is not only the question of competence: teaching is a skill and an art which requires some knowledge. Ethics and morals are in question. What about the unknown student, who already knows how to play by ear, thinking s/he will be taught how to read music from a clarinet player who is not familiar with the bass clef, and probably not that at home at the piano either. Hm, maybe a trade-off: the student can teach the clarinet player how to play piano by ear, get paid for it, and the two of them can become study-buddies as they both learn how to read music from ....... Gary!
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I once knew a school music instrumental specialist at the elementary school level. The school asked her to take on a beginning piano class after school. She came to me asking for me to teach her just enough to keep ahead of the students.
I chose not to do that. She should be referring students to piano teachers who have specialized in that instrument. If you can't play and instrument brilliantly you certainly can't teach an instrument brilliantly. Brilliant like in brain usage, not sound.
There are lots of hokey situations out there.
They defame the rest of us. Wanna Be's. Imposters.
Just as in politics, you need the experience and the preparation to be at the top of the electorate. Years and years of service. You can't just pop into the national picture and international picture with a smile and a handshake. Can you?
Oh!
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I will teach just about anyone piano if they live near the Everett area in Washington State. As you can tell from my link, I'm not great at all, but I'm better than 99% of other people in my city so I don't find it unreasonable to teach them.
You didn't mention if the lady that came to your store was a paid teacher or a friend hanging out with a friend. Even if paid, that's what makes america great. How would you like to live in North Korea and file a "letter of intent to teach music" and the fee or whatever BS they require.
So far no one has taken me up, which is undrestandable.
"Will teach for pizza"
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Gary, I'm not surprised either. We have a wonderful local store, but neither the owner nor spouse are what you'd call proficient musicians, but they are music lovers and can play a few tunes on the piano.
When I arrived here ten years ago, I found them and started ordering what I wanted to teach with. Everytime I wanted to try some new material, the likelihood was they'd not carry it, but would order it for me immediately. Soon, I noticed that other teachers were using the same material!!!!
Much of the new music I'd order came from the pages of Clavier's new music section, and I'd read these and then decide which ones I'd like to try.
Gary, my guess is that we have a few more than 4 teachers who know what they want, but I might be horrified to learn that it's not more than a dozen.
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA
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Originally posted by lalakeys:
Maybe you & your wife can gently "nudge" teachers toward Faber method books. I don't think they cost more than Schaum, but they're definitely better.
My wife is in charge of music, and I make recommendations all the time, but people just go back to whatever they are comfortable with. She has to order what people use. The most popular series of those that are not hopelessly out-of-date is the Alfred series. There is not a piano method on the market that does not have, in my opinion, really serious flaws, which is precisely why I don't use any of them. I have my spent decades writing my own method, but it is for my own uses only and would probably not work for anyone else. And it too has flaws, of course. There is no perfect method. But that was not my point. My point was that there are people who call themselves piano teachers who are just stealing people's money. They not only don't know what they are doing, they *know* they don't know what they are doing. But they don't care, because they just want money.
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C-A-V-E-A-T E-M-P-T-O-R, baby! Much like the 'oldest' profession, no training is needed to hang out your shingle. Unlike the oldest profession, the stubbornly uninformed consumer often is not in a good position to judge whether they have received a good service!
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Originally posted by John v.d.Brook: Gary, I'm not surprised either. We have a wonderful local store, but neither the owner nor spouse are what you'd call proficient musicians, but they are music lovers and can play a few tunes on the piano.
When I arrived here ten years ago, I found them and started ordering what I wanted to teach with. Everytime I wanted to try some new material, the likelihood was they'd not carry it, but would order it for me immediately. Soon, I noticed that other teachers were using the same material!!!!
Much of the new music I'd order came from the pages of Clavier's new music section, and I'd read these and then decide which ones I'd like to try.
Gary, my guess is that we have a few more than 4 teachers who know what they want, but I might be horrified to learn that it's not more than a dozen. This store actually stocked things I recommended for awhile, but over time many things disappeared because no one bought them. What is sold is reordered. It's that simple. For instance, I wanted to give one of my students the first of the "Trois Nouvelles Études" and discovered that no copies of any edition of the Chopin Etudes is now stocked. Bach WTC? Nothing. And so on… The reason is that *I* am teaching these things, but others here are not, for the most part, and the few who are are special ordering them. (I can get anything I want, obviously, and I'm not saying that there are not others in this area who are teaching such pieces. But they are in a small minority, as I suspect is also true where you live.)
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That someone would be so idiotic as to think teaching is a big laugh—and to express that sentiment in a music store—is beyond the pale.
But in addition to the imposters, there are others whack-jobs out there who have credentials and even lofty reputations.
My last experience with a teacher (in my mid-teens, after a significant gap in both playing and formal study) was dreadful. He was apparently well known and well regarded in my mid-sized suburb of Los Angeles, and taught violin, too.
He believed that finger vibrato was a valid and useful technique for piano—that it could alter the timber of a note after it was struck.
Another notable belief of his was that the wrists should be consciously tense at all times and that our physiology included something he called the "magnet muscle." Whenever I played in a lesson, the admonitions to keep my wrists rigidly inflexible were continuous. I can still hear him stridently calling out "Magnet!" ... "Magnet!!" ... "MAGNET!!!"
As you said, Gary, you can't make this stuff up.
Steven
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sotto voce, I hope you've ignored his stiff wrists admonitions!
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA
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Originally posted by John v.d.Brook: sotto voce, I hope you've ignored his stiff wrists admonitions! I did pretty much from the start; that's why he had to yell at me! It was an untenable situation that didn't last long. My aunt and uncle (with whom I lived) realized that I was making more progress on the stuff I was learning on the side on my own, so they stopped wasting the money. That was nearly 40 years ago. I've had some long gaps of disengagement from piano in the meantime, but haven't had a lesson since. This guy was actually merely the most incompetent of the bad teachers I endured in childhood—but I play reasonably well despite my "lessons." Steven
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Maybe it's just where I live...
I live close to two music stores. Both have EXTENSIVE classical music in stock. Both are run by piano teachers who know what's going on, and they know how to order obscure music (one is better at it than the other). I order from the store that is closer to my house, and its staff can already recognize my voice over the phone.
You can find most of the Romantic piano concertos and Mozart concertos, the WTC, lots of Chopin, and titles by all the major composers. There are shelves full of teaching anthologies and method books.
There are at least 30 well-qualified piano teachers who live within a 20-mile radius where I live. Of course there are still the fake "piano teachers," but they can teach the kids who "just want to have fun." The problem is that there are only so many serious piano students, and there are 30 great teachers vying for them.
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Originally posted by Piano*Dad: C-A-V-E-A-T E-M-P-T-O-R, baby!
Makes me think of that "king of queens" episode where Arthur starts teaching all these kids. The proof is in the recitals.
Music is the surest path to excellence
Jeremy BA, ARCT, RMT Pianoexcellence Tuning and Repairs
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The problem is that most people use the same rubric for the oldest profession as they do music lessons: Was it enjoyable? While that is the point of the oldest profession, it's not really the point of music lessons. Originally posted by Piano*Dad: C-A-V-E-A-T E-M-P-T-O-R, baby!
Much like the 'oldest' profession, no training is needed to hang out your shingle. Unlike the oldest profession, the stubbornly uninformed consumer often is not in a good position to judge whether they have received a good service!
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt) www.pianoped.comwww.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed
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Originally posted by John v.d.Brook: Gary, I'm not surprised either. We have a wonderful local store, but neither the owner nor spouse are what you'd call proficient musicians, but they are music lovers and can play a few tunes on the piano.
The problem at our store has nothing to do with ignorance. It is not primarily a piano music store. It's more about band and orchestra, and I taught brass for a very long time before finally moving to piano, which although officially my main instrument is not the one I had the most success teaching when I was younger. The store can and will order anything I ask for. My wife is a wiz and will find anything I ask for in seconds. I told her that I'm missing the Friedheim edition of the Chopin Etudes, and she emailed me in five minutes for confirmation that she was ordering exactly what I wanted. The problem is that no one else here is using it. How do I know? Because if we had five people use it, it would be stocked. What is missing in this area is scholarship. For example, there is a wonderful edition of the Mozart Sonatas by Nathan Broder. The notes in the beginning suggesting how to interpret Mozart's notation and why to do it that way is worth the book, for me. And it does not affect the rest of the book, because that is not marred with the editors ideas. It's at least one very reliable view. But there is a catch. It's useless for anyone who is unable to make decisions without help. There are no clues about adding phrase marks, dymanics, pedal. You have to draw your own conclusions, and of course there is no fingering. No fingering? Well, we can't have THAT, can we? Not when there is the old handy-dandy Schirmer edition with fingerings already there. And work out our own interpretation from study? No, let's coast along with someone elses ideas. That's what I'm up against. Each time I teach a sonata, I put it into Finale, from scratch, with my own suggestions. People think Finale does it all, when actually it only makes editing faster. If you don't know what you're doing, you get crap. I do this work myself because it allows me to work from the edition I trust the most and make *my own* recommendations about fingering, dynamics, ornamentation, and so on. But I'm meticulous about telling each student that whatever I've added is to be questioned, that someday any student who is really growing must do what I do: go to the best source and think it out anew. Sorry about the rant, but it was a BAD day.
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I like to think I know something, but I have had piano teachers come into the store where I used to work and ask me about methods. Rather incredulously I wondered to myself, "Shouldn't you already be familiar with most of these methods?" Unfortunately Alfred reigns supreme.
In the last two years that I've been here in Atlanta I've seen stock of Music Tree go up significantly. Used to be I had to special order it. Now it's either in stock or back-ordered. It can't be just me who's using it! I can't help but wonder who else is using it, and whether that person knows how best to utilize what's taught in the method.
Bill and Roxanne of Hutchins and Rea are familiar with me on a first name basis and when my bill comes out to less than 40 dollars, they give me praise for my restraint. It is that bad. At least they know that I'm willing to buy the music no one else buys because I'm curious about it, so I've received an extra discount on top of my teacher's discount.
Really, I'm just thankful that I live close enough to a sheet music retailer that is as large and as well-run as Hutchins and Rea, giving me the opportunity to buy piano duets by a Philippe Delisle.
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Originally posted by sotto voce: My last experience with a teacher (in my mid-teens, after a significant gap in both playing and formal study) was dreadful. He was apparently well known and well regarded in my mid-sized suburb of Los Angeles, and taught violin, too.
He believed that finger vibrato was a valid and useful technique for piano—that it could alter the timber of a note after it was struck.
We should talk more. My high school teacher also had a "reputation". Her idea of teaching was to brag about who she studied with, then sit on her sofa away from her grand piano so she could get "the big picture". When I had a problem, she said, "Are you sure you've worked that out?" She told me over and over again that I was very tense, which was true, but she never gave me ONE fingering suggestion. And she gave me the Schnabel edition of the Beethoven sonatas. I have great respect for Schnabel, but his tempo markings can ruin a young pianist if taken too literally, and she just told me to check the markings with my metronome. When I think of all the things I struggled with that could have been solved with just a suggestion, it makes my blood boil. But it gets worse. She recommended a college teacher who so nearly ruined me, I shudder to think of it. This man was a great believer in the "drop and flex" method, and to get rid of tension, which was a real problem because I had no technical foundation, he stressed a kind of up and down motion of the wrist that was just ridiculous. The more I tried to do what he said, the more tense I got. Sound familiar? I was fortunate. For my last two years of instruction, I got a fantastic teacher who straightened out most of my problems in almost zero time, and the rest I've taken care of by continuing my own investigation. This, by the way, is why I'm so suspicious of people who preach different kinds of technique in forums. If I can't see it and if I'm not convinced it works, I want no part of it. Another notable belief of his was that the wrists should be consciously tense at all times and that our physiology included something he called the "magnet muscle." Whenever I played in a lesson, the admonitions to keep my wrists rigidly inflexible were continuous. I can still hear him stridently calling out "Magnet!" ... "Magnet!!" ... "MAGNET!!!"
As you said, Gary, you can't make this stuff up.
No. You can't. One of the finest pianists I've ever seen and heard simply said that most of these "systems" come from people who talk about playing and can't play. He was right. I seldom talk at all about wrist position, because people have a tendency to overdo whatever they are told. The longer I teach, the more I'm convinced that most people will adopt sensible physical habits if I don't screw them up by giving them things they are not yet ready for. I like to shape technique through the music I teach and the way I approach it. That's not the whole thing, but it's a huge part of it. It also leaves room for students to find their own solutions for THEIR bodies and THEIR hands and THEIR style, which in the end is what anyone who is successful must do.
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