Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum What happened creative exchange of ideas here?

Rocket 88, where's the spam? Unless it's in a can sitting your kitchen shelf, there's none in my post. Check the forum guidelines. We're allowed to include promos in the sig file.

So sorry you feel threatened that the world revolves around sales. Maybe you should move to Antarctica. You may like it there.

I really don't want to get involved but really these conflicts do seem personal. Unless I state a fact that was said by another individual I feel that it is not nice to bully or pick on anyone.

It's quite obvious to me that there has been some confliction and I think, if you must please personal message each other.

I don't mean to sound patronizing or preachy, being a 16 year makes me feel strange and awkard giving my opinion to adults.

When someone has a product to sell, and comes on a forum and bashes people who sell an different "product", that is actually worse than Spam.

To say that I should move to Antarctica, after you bashed Betty and other traditional teachers, along with the proven traditional teachinng method, means that you are not only worse than a spammer,, but a Troll.

Wise up, huckster....go to popup heck and sell your product on its merits, not by bashing the competition.

May I suggest that the abuse button be hit, rather than ongoing arguments in a ** discussion ** forum? The topic is "What happened to creative exchange of ideas here?" Isn't it almost Thanksgiving where you guys are?

Sorry Rocket but I didn't bash Betty. I responded to an unfriendly response from her. And you identified what I posted as spam which is harrasment in itself.

But I'll take the advice you have in your sig file and stop arguing with you.

Yes, I will obey my byline

Interesting response. I think Betty's old enough to defend herself and from what I've read so far, she's quite capable. As far as being a troll, I've done nothing to incite argument ... only innocently responded to comments made by quality people like yourself.

Hucksters try and hide what they sell. I'm not hiding. Speaking of which, where's your picture?

Good grief! Where is the moderator when you need him?!

Ken! If you are up there, this is geting out of hand down here!

I don't think Ed's post was out of line. He raised a question worthy of debate and one that was at least moderately relevant to the thread (and certainly more relevant than many of the other posts here!). He merely raised the possibility that there is a degree of resistance to new teaching techniques and approaches among classically trained teachers, and that this resistance to change might be counterproductive. Betty took it personally and responded in a defensive huff, as is her wont, and things went downhill from there.

As for Ed's business, I did not view his post as being any kind of spam or selling at all. He lists his website in his signature line, well within the forum rules, and no different than many of the teachers here... including Betty.

But nobody thus far has actually responded in a substantive manner to Ed's question, which is not a little ironic in a thread that is titled "what happened to a creative exchange of ideas?"

FWIW, I agree with you, Ed. AB forum has many members who have not found what they have wanted in a traditional, classically oriented curriculum.

I've never advocated that everyone follow the same path. And yes, I would like to see an exchange of creative ideas.

Let me explain exactly what I see and hear, looking at your "Coral Reef".

You are calling A E A and F C F, in the LH, as Am and F chords. When are you going to tell your students that you are playing open fifths, and that this interval, by itself is ambiguous?

You talk about the "aeolian mode".

In fact, you are moving back and forth between aeolian and lydian.

The names are not important to me, at this point, but I would say that the LH is playing open 5ths, with the bass note doubled in the octave, or doubled by the thumb.

Now, you are cheating, and there is nothing wrong with that, but you are putting your RH on an unusual five-finger position, B C D E F. This gives you a "6th" for free, but you keep getting the A, part of the melody you are improvising, by using the thumb of the LH to also double for the melody.

Then, when the LH moves to the F open 5th, you move the RH to a G position, using G A B C.

I am NOT criticizing what you are doing because it is too easy, or too simple. I am saying that what people will do is this: they will mimic that chord positions and hand positions you are teaching.

This is fine for the beginning. Everyone has to start somewhere. But are you saying that you are opposed to reading? Do you want people to learn this INSTEAD of reading?

I'm absolutely in support of improvisation. What bothers me is that many people tell people, "Don't bother learning to read music. You don't need it."

In my experience ever the finest players who ONLY play by ear regret not being able to read. Granted, there are some famous musicians who never learned to read. Two of them were Steven Allen and Dave Brubeck. But I don't think this was an advantage for either. They were just so talented, they worked around it.
I'm not sure where you are heading with this statement.

I don't see why quiescen can't have his homepage as his sig. I like the site - plenty of money has been invested and it is very helpful. His technique is poor though - too much tension, and then having to stare at his crotch! Well...maybe I'm just the sensitive type. No need to come on so strong quiescen, remember you're in a heath food shop.

Hi Monica and thanks for your post. It's very interesting to me how some respond to what I've posted.Very interesting.

Keyboardklutz ... as far as technique goes, it's secondary to expression in my book and there's really no need to stare at my crotch.

Gary D ... brilliant analysis of Coral Reef.

Look, I've been a member of this board since 2004 - longer tham most of the people who have posted on this thread. I won't be bullied because my opinion is different than yours. Nor will I back away from those who insult me and then hide behind somme anonymous icon.

I'm a teacher just like you and I have opinions just like you. I realize that you may not like that. That's fine. Just don't expect me to back down from insults and innuendo. Not now. Not ever.

Oh, and here's a warning for the lighthearted ... here comes my signature line:

----------------------------------
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

No, it's not and I can't help it!

It's snowing!

Why is it I'm always asleep when the you know what goes down?!..bloody time zones

Personally, I am aware that Quiescen spends more time in the other forums, than on this board..and has taken a flogging or two on threads condemning the new-age piano style, from many 'traditionalists'. So, I find it not surprising that he would appear on this thread (albeit perhaps a little abrupt), 'airing' his views with regard to those who advocate 'tradition' to the exclusion of other forms/methods/styles. If you venture into some of those threads where the new-age style is defamed as music blasphemy, and criticised to no end by some classicists, it's a little disheartening too. It seems the tension between traditional classicists and new-age musicians is very prevalent.

Perhaps this issue needs a thread of it's own in the 'Piano Teacher's Forum', as I'm not entirely sure it fits in with Gary's thread title, but perhaps Gary might confirm this either way.

As for having his website as his sig...this is common place on internet forums globally. It's how people promote without spamming. It's not spam, unless you start a thread about what you're selling in an unrelated forum or promote yourself endlessly in your posts. I haven't witnessed this on the 'Piano Teacher's Forum'.

And from what I have witnessed of his site, alot I've seen has been free. I've been downloading music free from his site for months for my beginner students (child, teenage, & adult) as a change from their classical/jazz repertoire, and they really like it.

Peace

Wow, when I woke this morning my mail was full of moderator reports.

Let's all have a Coke and a smile..

This track of the discussion certainly got derailed - especially considering that this is the forum where everyone treats everyone else respectfully (for the most part).

quiescen, I think the reception would be better except for a couple of things. First, discussion on your methods would be better received without naming names and holding up forum members as bad examples. I don't think you intended for your words to sound that way, but that's the way they sound.

Secondly, this forum has seen its share of games played in the past by people representing various internet based piano teaching systems. We've seen many sock puppets come here pretending to be students who sing priases of some web based course (Soft Mozart comes to mind) only to find out that this person is the owner of the company trying to drum up business. These people would bombard the forum. It got old really fast.

You are correct, websites are allowed and encouraged in sig lines. Actually, they are encouraged for professionals - not for advertising but to show a person's industry affiliation. As an example, if I always tell others that Yamaha is the best piano and my sig line discloses that I sell Yamahas, then everyone will know that I might have a reason for the opinions I express.

All in all, you will find this forum to be full of openminded people who do all they can for their students and constantly look for ways in which they can improve their teaching skills - provided that the perception is not that you have come to sell your wares, attack their methods, or attack respected forum members.

Ken

I'm not a teacher, just an amateur pianist with a dilettantish (but increasingly serious) personal interest in pedagogy.

Quiescen referred to "'traditional' piano pedagogy" and resistance by classical teachers to "anything that doesn't conform to the norm"; he charges them with believing that "everyone should follow the exact same path" and having "an outdated pedantic approach to playing piano."

Monica confirmed the viewpoint that there's "a degree of resistance to new teaching techniques and approaches among classically trained teachers."

But even if teaching classical piano rather than other genres of music is the norm (which, I think, is manifestly true), there's no standard method or approach for doing so—no norm to which everything should conform, no "exact same path" for all to follow, no single "outdated pedantic approach."

"Resistance to new teaching techniques and approaches among classically trained teachers," too, implies that there is a homogeneity and uniformity in the existing methods and approaches.

Has there ever been a consensus among teachers regarding classical piano pedagogy? Most students who've taken lessons from several teachers probably wouldn't think so! Any pianist who's read what the great pedagogues of the past have to say wouldn't think so, either. The approaches and methods are various, and sometimes they are conflicting and contradictory.

Maybe I'm restating the obvious, but, on the other hand, teachers and students of other genres of piano might be misperceiving a status quo in the teaching world of classical piano that just doesn't exist.

Steven

Excellent points, sotto voce. You are right that it is being too hasty to brush all classical teachers with the same brushstrokes. I've read enough posts from many of the teachers I admire here on this forum who make it clear that they try to incorporate a wide variety of approaches in their teaching, including jazz, improvising, playing by ear, and music from other genres, should the student be more interested in those skills.

I think I was reacting to the threads and posts that prompted the "creative exchange" thread to begin with, and I should acknowledge that the rigidity I referred is not representative of all the teachers posting here.

What happened to the creative exchange of ideas?

The "c" in creative was moved to become "reactive" exchange of ideas.

Now Betty, that was creative!

Monica, you're right - and as always a voice of good sense.

Ken

Thank you, Ken!

It was a nice surprize for me.

I was just talking to someone about the world evolve - that we are on a path in music daily and that if we stay on the path and follow faithfully we will arrive at the destination.
She shared with me a Rilke quote about this that was so poetic and promising.

Maybe someone will post it here. Or, I could go find it. I kind of think it will surface here if it's meant to be said. Let's see!

So, my instant thought created the entry of the word revolve, and that's what we do, over and over, when we're off the path, even slightly, lost our belief in our musical selves, or our path in music choices and our efforts slack and the hope and vision dims.

Why revolve when it's guaranteed you can evolve. Be a believer!

Word plays are engaging me today!

Betty