This may seem like a dumb question, but please stick with me. (Incidentally I did a quick search but couldn't readily find an answer, so my apologies if this has been raised before).

I would like to know if there are any competent piano teachers here who cannot actually play themselves.

I learnt when I was six, well over half a century ago. The teacher was a large lady, very strict, who administered a wooden ruler frequently over the knuckles to correct many bad habits and reoccurring mistakes. This made my elder brother give up the lessons after a very short period, but I carried on, whilst the knuckles became redder & redder with each passing year.

The teacher in question consistently obtained very high marks in her pupils exams, and was considered one of the very best teachers in the neighborhood. I must confess I certainly never heard her play during the 5 years I had lessons, although at the time I never gave this even a passing thought.
My elder sister who also took lessons for much longer and made excellent progress recalls that she was at a party one day in the local church hall. It was a childs' birthday, and suddenly someone called out, "Oh there's Miss XXX (the piano teacher), please come over and play 'Happy Birthday To You' on the piano in the corner!"
The piano teacher suddenly seemed to be struck dumb for several moments, then after a very long pause, made some apology or other and quickly left the room in a very embarrassed and distressed state.
The motive behind this rapid loss of face was probably lost on most present, with the exception of my sister and one other pupil. But it was painfully clear that the teacher could not in fact play the piano.
I believe this must be very unusual, especially a teacher being well known for getting high grades.
Does anyone know of a similar tale? Or is this not so unusual.

Although I would expect most teachers here could play Happy Birthday off the cuff, I doubt very many could play the National Anthem. You see, what you're really asking is whether a teacher should be able to play any tune upon command. Some teachers I know have made it a point to memorize commonly requested tunes, just to avoid such embarrassment, although, she really shouldn't have been embarrassed at all. She could have said, "Oh, I'll be more than happy to play for you. In the future, please make arrangements with my agent, and in the mean time, I'm certain you'll agree, in front of everyone, to pay union scale."

While I don't agree with the whole "ruler over the knuckles" routine, your former teacher's reaction was no indication of not being able to play piano. Some people get very nervous playing in front of others. Some people need to have the music. Some need to prepare a piece and be warmed up. In all of these possible scenarios, the person in question can still be quite an accomplished pianist.

I think that not all good piano teachers are good performers. Not all good performers are good teachers, either. But a good teacher must know how to play piano, even if they do not perform (or perform well).

Here we go again chaps ... the ducking and diving that goes on amongst some of our piano teachers defending the pose of not needing to play the piano ... this is like learning to swim from a chappie who can’t swim ... the very thought of one of our number not being able to play "Happy Birthday" is scary.

No wonder the public at large have such a poor opinion of knuckle-rappers ... we need to get our act together folks.

btb,
I was never taught how to play happy birthday. I was always taught to play from the written score, and was never given one of Happy Birthday. My teacher never encouraged me to figure things out by ear, compose my own music, or improvise. I am not in the majority. Now as an adult and teacher, I have learned how to play by ear and to harmonize, and I teach that to my students so that they don't experience this. However, there is a part of the past where this sort of thing was not encouraged or taught.

No one is saying that a teacher shouldn't be able to PLAY, but there's a big difference between 1) begin able to play and being able to perform and 2) being able to play from a score and being able to adlib something. That is what John & I are talking about, and in no way, shape or form are we saying that a good teacher should not have to be able to play (or have been able to play prior to arthritis setting in).

Nor was anyone condoning knuckle rappers (in fact, I think this is not a good way of teaching piano at all). But given the story and no other background information, one cannot deduce that this teacher in question couldn't play piano. That is just not apparent from the information available.

Why do you always jump to such conclusions, btb? Or do you get something out of ruffled feathers?

Actually, when I was in college, my professor almost never demonstrated for me. I have my way of picking obscure pieces that nobody knows. I just needed someone who has the experience to be able to analyze a piece and recognize its technical demands.

I tell my students the same thing. There are pieces I'm teaching right now that--if I practice 2 hours per day--I can play just fine. I just don't have 2 hours per day to practice. However, I know enough about music to be able to find the difficulties within each passage and to guide the student toward the correct way of playing.

Seems like everyone is getting pretty rude about the whole "teachers playing the piano thing". I mean, it isn't a harsh question or request. If someone sees a piano teacher, they want to hear the person play the piano. Piano-playing is a skill meant primarily for enjoyment, so those who have the skill usually like to, or are expected to, share that with those who don't have it. I'm cringing just imagining a get together where the hosts cheerfully ask the teacher to give a small performance for everyone's enjoyment to be met with a cold "I'm afraid you must contact my agent before arranging these things, and I take cash and credit card".

I think it's inspiring and encouraging for teachers to regularly play for their students. It doesn't have to be an entire sonata or nocturne, but a little snippet is always good.

I will admit that I do not readily play advanced classical repertoire at the performance level that I used to play when I studied in college. I also don't teach advanced repertoire either, as my focus is more on beginners and early intermediate level students. But I love to perform for my students and their parents, to share with them what they will eventually be able to do if they continue with lessons.

Each teacher is different.

I attended a workshop recently on how teachers can teach improvisation in their studios. There were teachers there who were had far more credentials than I will ever attain, who were outstanding teachers.... yet they fumbled trying to make up a RH melody using a 5-finger scale in G, then add a simple LH accompaniment.

These are the teachers who would have a difficult time plunking out 'Happy Birthday' at a moment's notice.

I think the question here is: Are teachers performers themselves?

I have seen three sides of it. All my past private teachers demonstrated to me how its done ... some have even played to be some related pieces and higher up pieces so I would have some sort of a listening experience. One particular one I remember wasn't a great pianist herself, her technique was appalling and I almost fell off my chair to know that piano was her first instrument. She did give many criticisms in refining the performance but she never demonstrated ... she would either say "softer here" or "you need to work on your phrasing" ... her feedback wasn't really insightful...

Another teacher I had was a performer, with teaching he made a living out of performing. Performing to him was something that ALL musicians had to do and he always made sure that his students performed, sharing the joys of performing. He was always happy to perform or play for a student and he always did. It was through this example where I understood that performing was more than just playing in front of many people, I saw that it was sharing something that you worked hard for. I have encountered several teachers like that in the past that also make their living out of performing and they seem to be the believable in the advice they give as they do perform a lot themselves.

At the same time I have encountered that excellent teacher that gives very insightful advice but never demonstrates. That teacher I once had still plays but only for pleasure, it seemed that she didn't perform as a musician and her job was purely music education. She was a great teacher but she never really urged students to perform and get out there ... she did create excellent musicians and great pianists but she didn't seem to stress the fundamental importance of performing and the joy of it.

I think to if you are going to teach a subject, no matter what it is, you need to know it.

Currently, I am shameful to say that I am way out of practice, and I do not currently perform because of it. But the fact that I have performed and played advanced repertoire in the past, is like riding a bicycle... you don't forget how it's done, therefore you can instruct.

Now, if someone asks me to play Happy Birthday, no problem... just to be clear. Luckily for me, with a little warming up, I could probably pull off the National Anthem. But if you ask me to play an advanced level piece, I shamefully would not want to try. That is not to say I don't demonstrate advanced level pieces, if need be. I just give a sample of how I think it should be expressed, etc, mistakes and all... my students get it.

I also have taught pieces I've never played before. Personally I LOVE to do this, it is like playing and learning the piece yourself, but the students are doing the work, with guidance from me, great fun!!

An example of teachers that don't perform in their medium, but do teach, to name a couple: ballet instructors and sports coaches.

Here’s my copy of "Happy Birthday" which all my students learn in the first month of taking lessons ... there might be an awful lot of memorisation before sight-reading kicks in ...
but sounds of this cheerful ditty in everybody’s household does an awful lot to advertise the guru skills of the piano teacher.

All those who can't play this oft heard birthday reminder by tea-time, qualify for presentation of
"Ye olde WOODEN SPOON".

happybirthday

I will not play in front of a group, ever. I loathe being the center of attention, and that is probably the biggest reason why I totally pulled away from performing in public in my mid to late 20s.

If someone asks me to play in front of a group, I politely say no. If someone pushes me, eventually I am no longer polite: "What part of NO don't you get?"

But I always play for my students.

Theowne, there are many reasons that teachers might be uncomfortable improvising at the last second, or what some call a "command performance." Some were listed here, some have been listed the last half dozen times this subject has come up.

That said, we live in an era when people pride themselves on being professional, and one of the characteristics of professionals is to render their services in an appropriate setting, namely "The Office." You wouldn't ask your MD for a medical opinion when he was a guest in your home, would you? You wouldn't ask your plumber friend to do a pipe repair in the middle of a party, and not expect to pay his going rate plus overtime?

Pianobuff has given you several examples of other teachers who don't perform - now think about other teachers, math teachers, English teachers, Latin teachers, science teachers, history teachers, who don't go to parties and get peppered with requests to ply their trade.

By the way, I have some mild arthritis in my right hand that comes and goes. If I'm having a bad day, I don't want to announce to the world that I can't play tonight became my hand isn't working.

Now that I reflect a bit on on the original post, the teacher's response should have been, "Sure, come over to the piano, and I'll teach you how to play Happy Birthday."

My thoughts went somewhere along the same lines.

But I have had another thought as well. I was told that in the old school, a person trained to be a concert type classical performer was not allowed to know how to play by ear because this would ruin their specialized skills in working with selected written music. If this really existed and if this teacher had been taught along that school, she would not be able to play anything off the top of her head. She would not be able to teach Happy Birthday without sheet music either.

KS

I have taken lessons with two excellent teachers who could not really play the piano. One of them had suffered from several strokes and the other was very elderly and frail and was losing her sight. Of course they had both been fine pianists in their day and what they didn't know about piano was not worth knowing.

I am a teacher, not a performer. Teaching takes up most of my time and I have little incentive or need to practice seriously. This does mean that if an advanced student brings an unfamilliar piece of advanced music to a lesson I am unlikely to be able to rattle it off at first sight. That doesn't mean that I can't teach it though. Obviously I am not talking about 'Happy Birthday'. I have lost count of how many times I have had to play that one on request.

My teacher, a Japanese lady, is a wonderful pianist who has a wide repertoire and excellent sight-reading skills. As an example, I've come to love the Schubert Impromptus - she can play them all, either from memory or by sight. I expect nothing less from someone who sets themselves up as a 'piano teacher'. The inspiration I get from hearing her play the pieces I'm struggling with is, perhaps, the greatest lesson of all.

LOL! That's a great response!

But not by ear. That is the point here. Being asked to play something in a lesson where a teacher can practice and prepare for such things is one thing, but being asked to play something on the fly that one normally wouldn't practice (unless they anticipate this happening) is different.

Keystring brought up a point that I find particularly interesting. It seems as though nowadays teachers are expected to offer a smorgasbord of different skills in their teaching, whereas in the past things were much more specialized. Because of this, we cram as much as we can into 30 minutes: sight reading, ear training, theory, composition, improvisation, and repertoire (I'm sure I missed some, too!). As a result of this different expectation, however, and perhaps as a result of my own realization that my teacher never taught me to play Happy Birthday, I make sure that my students can learn a piece by ear and harmonize it. Whether or not it is right for someone to ask, I think many people do with the expectation that you will play without regard for any of the above possible reasons. I think it's important to be prepared in any case.

I wouldn't want a teacher who can't play well themselves, both of my main piano teachers (I just started lessons with a new one, after 4 1/2 years of learning from my boyfriend, because he recommended that I go to an outside person and because we were in a financial position to allow me to do that)--I went from elementary literature to early advanced stuff in that time), I would want my teacher to be able to play the piano parts of my clarinet student's pieces, because I'd want to hire them for more than as a teacher!

Meri

I know this is a controversial topic, and I agree that piano teachers can't be expected to play everything by ear and/or know all of Piano's Greatest Hits by memory.

But...Happy Birthday is a fairly simple tune that can be easily harmonized with primary triads in the LH. It's unusual in that the melody starts on scale degree 5 and is a pick-up to an accented non-harmonic tone, but even that's Freshman/Sophomore level college theory.

I have met piano teachers who were unable to sightread pieces out of a late-elementary duet anthology. In my mind that's unacceptable. I think piano teachers should be able to read well up to an intermediate level, and I think piano teachers should be able to play the standard teaching literature they use. I also think they should have a basic grasp of keyboard harmony and technical fundamentals.

Kreisler, I mentioned further up that I am aware of a(n older?) school where the ability to play by ear was discouraged or forbidden as ruining a specialized skill. That kind of musician would not be able to play Happy Birthday by ear and harmonize to it. They would only be able to play it if it was memorized from prior sheet music work. This elderly teacher hit knuckles with rulers - she must have been quite 'old school'.

Kreisler, I don't know about you, but I frequently use Happy Birthday with my students as an example of why it's important to be able to harmonize, in fact, I run through all 12 keys.

But that begs the question. Why should piano teachers, alone among the professions, be expected to perform on a moment's notice, without remuneration?

In my humble opinion... Kreisler is correct.

Come on guys, Happy Birthday is 3 chords. You don't have to play the melody because everyone is singing it. How hard is that?

If you need to get paid, what would you charge?

I just played it and it takes all of 12 seconds.

H1

To someone who is not a professional musician or teacher, *playing* (note the verb) music is fun! You can do it as easily as saying "Good morning." so what's the big deal. The would-be musician dreams of going up to play in front of someone. They are giving you a chance to do something that you love and enjoy! For you it is work, and your livelihood. That is not easy to see for an outsider. They are also honouring you by asking. This is the attitude.

Nobody imagines that this is work. Some student is probably thinking, "Boy, I wish someone would ask me to play. More likely they'd find an excuse to leave the room. Lucky guy!"

Keystring...I have to disagree with you a bit. I would think that *playing* (note the verb) music
should be fun for everyone, regardless of whether you are a professional, or not. Otherwise... why do we teach, or perform, or play in church, etc. Why do something that is not enjoyable? Is it just for the money?

I'm sure that the answers will vary.

H1

I agree. Given the setting was at a party and the requested song was Happy Birthday, it seems very casual, and whoever asked the teacher probably did so to show her respect (asking the best player in the room). It would be different if the request was for a Beethoven sonata, or if people in the room were asked to stop other activities and attend to the performance. I think it's reasonable to be paid for a performance (though I think it's a bit over the top for playing Happy Birthday at a birthday party). But casually playing a simple tune at a party is pretty common for people who can play piano, no?

Just to be absolutely clear...

Happy Birthday--I can play that in my sleep!

National Anthem--I can pull that one off, too, without preparation.

Standard piano literature up to Kuhlau Sonatinas--Not a problem! Just yesterday I played through several pieces in Burgmuller Op. 100. I've never played some of them, yet I can sight read them as if I knew them well.

Bach WTC (the ones I haven't played), Beethoven Sonatas (the ones I haven't played), and Chopin Etudes (the ones I haven't played)--I can sight read through some passages, but I'd rather direct my students to available recordings by professional pianists. It'll be a big waste of lesson time for my students to hear me plodding through their pieces.

It is impossible for teachers to be able to pull off any piece from the standard advanced literature at a moment's notice.

Is it clear now?

H1 - if you go back and reread the original post, you'll note that the teacher was singled out and asked to play. If instead, the general call was, "Would someone like to accompany us as we sing . . . ." then that would be a different scenario. If there are no takers, just sing a Capella.

We have no idea why his teacher didn't want to "perform" on that particular day, and it's rather presumptuous of people to think everyone who plays the piano is just champing at the bit to climb on stage and show off. I know that speaking for myself, having played many tens of thousands of hours, and all week long, week after week, that having a day of rest is really important.

Oh dear, I can't play it!

'Tis about time though, right? ...and I think I had better learn it, 'just in case'!

Current my answer would be "geeze, louise, would you believe I have never learned to play it? .... but would you like to hear Malaquena, Chopin's Military Polonaise (or some such thing to dazzle them)!

And then I'd start up the singing before anyone thought too hard about it!

John....I understand what you are saying, however
have you ever heard "happy birthday" just played and *not* sung? The OP did not state if this was the case or not.(I did read the original post)
Do people (non musicians) know the difference between "accompany" and "solo piano"? I don't think so, unless it is explained to them.

It is a childs birthday party, and as I said earlier....the song takes all of 12 seconds...
this, to me anyway, is not showing off, or performing.

If someone needs a day of rest,(which we all do from time to time), then don't go to the party in the first place. Stay at home and rest.

My opinion, which is worth absolutly nothing in todays financial market.

H1