my kid is very musically gifted, and goes to the conservatory on scholarship. most of the other parents of my son's friends know this. some of them love it, and some think we only send him there as a status symbol. most of the boys in our town play sports, and are not into the arts. my son does not like sports.

his music teacher at school (at his public school, where he goes for the 3rd grade) wants to find a way to challenge him in music class, without turning the other kids off. i think it's terrible that the teacher has to worry about this -- that my son's talent will cause problems for him socially. this seems ridiculous to me, and in a rich town, it's probably not even an issue when kids share their talents with the class.

we live in a middle to lower class neighborhood, with some professionals and mostly working class. i think my kid is the only one in town who goes to the conservatory (out of 25,000 people).

i guess what i am saying is that i don't feel much community support for my kid being gifted at music. in fact, i feel hostility. and i worry that the envy and jealously of others will make my son stop playing music altogether.

I'm neither parent nor teacher. While some of what you rings true based on my own experiences as a child, a number of other details are quite perplexing.

I'm interested in what others more familiar with the situation you described in the Questions from a parent -- conservatory related thread will have to say about this new twist.



Steven

WOW! I can't believe people are like this ... I have no idea how to tackle this but my sympathy goes out to you!

BusyMom,

I don't really know you or your situation, and the information in your post really is insufficient to offer any real help other than the proverbial shoulder or hug.

What I can offer are observations based on other experiences. Only you can figure out whether they have any meaning for your case.

I know folks who have experienced what your son is going through. But in that case it's not as simple as envy of a talented child. In fact, I wonder how much a role envy plays at all. To be envious, one must want what the other has. In the cases I know, that was not true. The issues had much more to do with interpersonal relationships and social maturity issues. Kids who are truly gifted often are not capable of easy familiarity with their peers. It is their manner (very mature in some respects and very immature in others) that creates the barrier to normal social relationships with their peers. And yes, the trouble can be severe. It's no fun to be sure. But if you diagnose it as envy you may be barking up the wrong tree.

My son is a decent musician, but he is also socially very interactive. He plays in the school band and participates in lots of school clubs. He has a peer group that accepts him. So being good at music hasn't created any particular barriers. It could have, if envy were a big factor. When you come in as a baby freshman and beat out the seniors in the district band competition, that would certainly create the potential for problems, right? But only if compounded with an 'attitude' or with other social (maturity?) issues that make for fraught interpersonal relationships.


P.S. I just reread the old thread. That was about a nine year old daughter. This is about a son. Different age, I presume.

I hope I don't sound too harsh. But I'm going to keep it real.

Do you think people are snobbing you because of envy, or do you think because they feel you are bragging about your son's talents?

If folks around you are that shallow to intrude into your child's freedom, then I think you should move. Around where I live, I can't imagine any parent around giving us any trouble. All kids are different here, all gifted in all sort of various ways. Some get along, some don't.
In my opinion, keep the piano at home. Don't use the words "musically very gifted". Ever. Things will get better with other parents, you'll get invited to parties, and your son will make friends.

Sorry if I sound a little harsh, I'm only trying to help.

Take care.

I can empathize with the dangers of being different in a small town environment, but why would this be an issue at the conservatory where he is surrounded by other children who are like him?
This paragraph doesn't quite ring true. The first sentence sounds like a description of a public school setting.

Wouldn't a conservatory student have several music teachers and several music classes?

Why would being a skilled student in a conservatory setting be a threat to other conservatory students, who are presumably also skilled, also serious about music, and also there to be challenged?

Finally, I'm surprised you didn't remind us that you posted less than two weeks ago about your daughter's situation at a conservatory and offer an update to her situation, and how it might be related to your son's.

By the way, do you live in a town of 18,000 or "Major US City" as your profile states? How far away is the conservatory? Are both children at the same one?

Steven

Your son needs to find friends who are musicians as well. Generally piano teachers will have group lessons, and that is a great way for bonds to form between kids. I have a student who had stopped practicing and lost her enthusiasm because some kids at school made fun of her for taking piano lessons. She loves piano and singing and I was saddened to see her like this. I spoke with her parents who told me what happened (the child didn't let me know herself), and I let her know that our group lesson was coming up and that she'd be working with some other girls her age and level in piano. Today is the lesson, so we'll see how that goes, but I know the girl's practice was right back to normal after this and she really seemed to enjoy herself again.

As far as your feelings of being "snubbed", just try to lay off talking about your son to those people. You may be bragging, or you might simply be talking and people take that as bragging. If you find the conversation to go in that direction, try redirecting it to their children's accomplishments and them.

Are there no red flags in the OP?

Does a student at a conservatory have "a" music teacher and "a" music class?

Does talent have to be hidden at a conservatory?

Aren't all children there talented, and that's why they're there?

I'm well aware that good faith should be assumed, but this, along with the other discrepancies I mentioned previously, doesn't add up IMHO.

Please correct me if there's something I've missed here! BusyMom, I mean no offense and I'm sorry if you're really on the level. But if you look at your post and bear in mind everything I mentioned about it, I think you can see why you might not appear to be.

Steven

The picture I had in other posts elsewhere was that some insitutions called conservatories offer single classes, like the regular private lessons a student might have in a teacher's home (studio) but "at the conservatory". So I am imagining that this boy goes once a week to this conservatory and has lessons with this conservatory teacher for one hour or so. BusyMom, do I have it right?

Apparently there is a boy and a girl, and here we're discussing the brother (?)

Spending time in the Teachers' Forum is still relatively new to me, and I hope I'm not prematurely jaded.

The experience with good old kimold is still fresh in my mind, wherein at least one other person commented that sometimes this medium offers a platform for bragging rights (along the lines of "My child is so gifted that he plays piano all the time and I don't know what to do!"). I still believe kimold's selective attention to answering the queries made of her was very sketchy.

So when I read of a "very" gifted child—so gifted that all the other parents are jealous—I thought of this potential for disingenuousness given the other concurrent peculiarities. (Here's another one: if the boy is the only one in the town who goes to the conservatory, what happened to the OP's daughter? Why would she imagine our memories are so short?)

I guess I didn't understand what "conservatory" might mean, so thanks for the clarification that it could be a once-weekly thing, KS. But I'm still not getting why any of the concerns expressed about hostility from other conservatory students would even exist.

Steven

I imagined a music teacher of a regular public school, and the anticipated reaction of regular public school kids to the advanced performance of one of their peers in a regular music program, when he is also in a specialized program (privileged, gifted etc.). Without agreeing or disagreeing with the concern, or even whether it's a concern, that's the scenario I understood to be presented.

Supposing this "conservatory" was a once or twice a week lesson, then i assume this son would be involved in a local public school, where general music classes would be part of each child's curriculum. I can understand how with receiving lessons from the conservatory he'd be musical lightyears ahead of the average child in the music class. If this is the case, the original post makes perfect sense about how the music teacher wants to still challenge him without turning other kids against him. that's gotta be a tough job for any public school music teacher to deal with as she teaches other kids the basics of music.

There are so many facets of a music education - theory, sightreading, performance, history, technique, aural skills, interpretation, expression, etc. Most young musicians are not well balanced in their education, and cannot display the same level of acheivement in all areas.

Throughout my highschool years I was commonly referred to as "the piano player" and I was in a constant high profile because of my performance opportunities. i thought this would change when I did my undergrad in piano, as I would be taking many more music classes with other music majors. Even though I had a very good ear and could take accurate dictation, i often nearly failed written theory assignments. i felt very unbalanced musically, I would would often get ridiculed, EVEN BY OTHER MUSIC MAJORS, because I had an obvious strength which many of them lacked.

I don't know if this ridicule comes from an envy like was suggested in the original post, or just a lack of respect for someone with different gifts and abilities.

Perhaps this experience could be good for your son and you can explain to him what respecting other children looks like.

I know i was often tempted to give a wrong answer on purpose in aural assignments, simply to try to avoid the ridicule. How stupid! I wish I would have respected their individual talents more and had been more encouraging to them - and perhaps then they would have respected my strengths...

I think it is a big mistake to disclose that a child is on a scholarship at a school that others have to pay top dollar for.

While this is something to be proud of achieving, it is the students "ability and potential future" that are being given the scholarship. If the scholarship is also based on "need" that is on the parent's financial status.

The best way for your children (Both are musically gifted and supported by scholarship - I'm not sure I understand the particulars?) to respond to the support they have been given is to do their best, have high standards, be grateful, to pass it on in the future in charitable ways to others.

I get a picture here of a gloating parent - gloating about your own good fortune would set off some parents who think their child is just as deserving of recognition as yours are.

I really believe that kids who have help from others in their path way to education should be protected from the fall out and comparisons that will be made. I don't see scholarships as a guaranteed climb to the top, I see it as assistance in an endeavor of music education - after all that's what conservatories of music are by definition.

Your children should be focused on being a credit to the school and those who are supporting them. This should not be an opportunity to undo all that is invested in them by making it a commonly known think, and then setting the kids up for ridicule and sabotage in their future with the idea that jealousy and fear are lucking around them.

My mother used to brag on me, and set me apart, in her mind, that I was musically special, and in need of everyone's attention. She received no help from me in her version of my talent, I was content to be just be able to play, worked hard at learning, and when "played against" the other talented ones (they were, far more) I was at a disadvantage. None of this did anything to help my low self esteem. My mother needed the attention she could muster from my music ability to build upon her own sense of importance. I wonder if this is the case here?

Be protective and supportive to your outstanding musical children, help set them up for success musically, emotionally, and overall educationally, not forgetting socially.

Imagine if excessive gloating would cultivate arrogance in a child. Hoo boy, that wouldn't be fun. Not only kids are vigilant for opprotunities to knock arrogance down to size.

in my OP, i was referring to my son's music teacher at public school (where he goes to school for the fourth grade). this teacher wants to challenge him in music class, but he worries that treating my son specially will cause problems somehow. i don't know what kinds of problems -- i did not ask. but i certainly don't want to see my kid go unchallenged in class because other kids envy his ability. the music teacher will just have to find some way to deal with it.

i try very hard not to gloat. when people ask me how my son got to be so good on the piano, i tell them about the conservatory, so they will think about sending their kid there too, because i would like to see more kids from my town at the conservatory. and then i tell them about the scholarships, so they know it's affordable. in fact, it's cheaper for me to send my kid to the conservatory on scholarship than it was to send him to a local piano teacher. i paid $2,500 for the local piano teacher, for 50 hours of lessons last year. at the conservatory, i pay $2,200, for 120 hours of lessons a year (some is group lesson though). i want to tell these parents that the conservatory is a bargain!

and i do not tell the other parents that my kid won a state-wide music contest either. i think that would be gloating for sure.

my kid is not arrogant. he's pretty humble around his peers.

PianoDad, your comments about social maturity being at issue seem somewhat relevant here. some of this might be a maturity issue, or lack of. possibly my son is just not sensitive to how the other piano players in his class feel, when he gets all the attention. there are a couple kids in his class who are also pretty good piano players, and i don't see them getting the opportunities to perform like my kid does. and then when they do get the chance to perform (ie. at talent shows), they look bad in comparison to my kid, who also performs in the same show. it's like they never get the chance to shine. and i feel bad that my kid's exceptional talent steals the limelight from them too. maybe this is what his music teacher is worried about. a lot of kids will give something up if they see other kids who are much better at it. possibly his music teacher thinks my son might make others QUIT the piano.

BusyMom,

I think your story would be more credible if you had acknowledged and answered the questions raised by your original post without rewriting it.

Now we know your son goes to public school in addition to the conservatory. In view of the very real possibility, and consequences, of social ostracism, it probably would be wise for a very gifted student to "lay low" in the public school music class. That's not the primary source of his music education, and fitting in with other kids there is probably the overriding factor. At the conservatory, he's in the company of true peers and it's not an issue.

I still want to know what happened to your daughter, and if her situation and experiences as a student at her conservatory have been comparable to your son's.

Steven

The OP's "problem" wasn't finding other musicians, rather the "horrible" situation of having a "gifted" child, being the envy of all those jealous parents looking onwards at her kid, and that the brilliant child is being stilted and demoralized by the presence of his peers of lesser "talent".

There is something I didn't like about the tone of that post. At all. I have a feeling there may be another reason why the OP may be treated with hostility by other parents...

Actually, it seems to me that the professional musicians that are respected the most wouldn't be caught dead calling themselves "gifted".

thank you. now i understand where the music teacher at school is coming from. my son should focus on music at the conservatory, and not seek to shine as a musical star at his public school. that would be unfair to the other students, who do not get the chance to go to the conservatory. and it would make him unpopular, because the other kids will think he is a show-off.

got it. thanks!

You don't have it, in my opinion.

Music teachers at public schools cultivate everyone's talent. I can't imagine excluding or limiting someone's participation because they were too good, just as it would be wrong to eliminate someone who was having a problem in music making in elementary school music programs.

Show-offs are diffent than young musicians that shine in my viewpoint. Show-offs need a little tempering as it's a behavior, and young musicians at all levels thrive on encouragement ment and appreciation.

I think you are paying an arm and a leg for music lessons regardless of who is giving the lessons or where they are being taken. It doesn't sound like much in the way of financial scholarship coming your way.

Are the mother or father musically experienced?

I want you and your children to have a wonderful musical experience in every way. There seem to be many perceived obstacles that are in your way for having a wonderful musical experience.

My child (low teen) goes to the Conservatory to study piano, too. Pardon my English, which is my second language.

First of all, you just cannot expect too much from public elementary school's music education.
I feel that is too much to ask. Probably your son can branch out his music later (in middle school) by learning different instruments, joining orchestra as PD says. But that's about it.

Also, please don't feel bad if your son shines at the talent share and other kids did not. Talent share is only one day of year, so let him be in the center of attention.
Even if some parents might be a little jealous, soon they will forget it. By middle school, most kids drop out of piano. Believe me. This is America. Sports stars are the ones who get all the popularity.