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#946618 - 02/28/08 03:19 PM When judging is too harsh
Morodiene Offline
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Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12141
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Tis the season for all sorts of music festivals, and this past weekend was our local Solo & Ensemble contest. I have spoken with many teachers of both voice and piano students, and we were really upset with how students were judged this year. Two of the piano judges only sent 1 and 4 students to state! I heard many comments from judges that were inappropriate for the age and level of performance for many of these kids, and some were downright discouraging! These "competitions" are not for professional musicians, or even college-age students. These are mainly middle and high school age kids. Is it so hard for judges to be encouraging and commend these kids for the hard work they put into learning a piece? I guess I'm just venting, but I'd also like to hear other teacher's thoughts on this. Sometimes I think it does more damage than good to participate in these. Perhaps in years to come I won't recommend they do it.
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#946619 - 02/28/08 03:41 PM Re: When judging is too harsh
Innominato Offline
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Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 802
Loc: London
Morodiene, do you have the impression that standards are tightening or is it just your dissatisfaction at a system which might be uncomfortable?

By the way, the fixation of you Americans with competitions at whichever level and age never ceases to amaze me.

In my time we used to have friendly end-of-year recitals once a year, about school end (June), with the parents of all pupils of a teacher and a nice time together. Everyone did so (piano or whatever discipline that you do in the freetime).

A child has a way to stay focused, but for God's sake it is not a competition. IN fact, the idea of having competitions for children at such tender age would have been considered pretty sick by most parents.

And then, one complains about the rat race they are trapped in when they're adults, I imagine...!? \:\)
_________________________
"The man that hath no music in himself / Nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds / Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils." (W.Shakespeare)

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#946620 - 02/28/08 04:10 PM Re: When judging is too harsh
eromlignod Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 379
Loc: Kansas City
If your kid's too emotionally delicate to be judged, then don't enter him into a competition. That way he doesn't get criticized and everyone's happy.

You can't make everyone happy in a competition. That's why they call it a "competition". It would be nice to acknowledge that every contestant is a winner in his own way, but that's not true: there's only one winner, and he worked his tail off to get there.

To send kids to State just to make them feel good is like letting them pass a grade even though they didn't meet the requirements that everyone else had to. You end up degrading the value of the trophy and you end up flooding the State Competition with too many sub-par entries to deal with.

People who can't stand to lose should not enter contests where they are judged. If it induces them to quit altogether, that's a flaw in their character, not the fault of the judging. Everyone else in the competition was judged just the same. Only one will win...the rest won't just quit.

You have disappointments your entire life and you have to get used to it or you'll never be an adult. Life is hard. A kid will get over it. I did; you did. Maybe next year.

Don
Kansas City

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#946621 - 02/28/08 04:26 PM Re: When judging is too harsh
Stanny Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 1461
Oh great :rolleyes: this is the first year I'm entering students into our MNTA festival. I hope we get good comments!
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Independent Music Teacher
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#946622 - 02/28/08 04:35 PM Re: When judging is too harsh
dumdumdiddle Offline
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Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 1267
Loc: California
There are so many performance and adjudication opportunities for students. I tell my students that each judge is different, some are more encouraging, some are not (some actually shouldn't be judging at all, IMO). But anyhow, things aren't always fair.

When I enter students in Guild or ACSI Piano Festival, I expect the comments to be more encouraging and constructive. There is no competition among students. However, in an actual contest, where students move up to another level or actually 'win' something (Solo/Ensemble, Piano Concerto come to mind) students should be prepared for tougher comments. That's not to say judges should be cruel but I think there is a difference in the venues.
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#946623 - 02/28/08 04:37 PM Re: When judging is too harsh
Morodiene Offline
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Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12141
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
This is not in reference to MTNA, because that I think is better regulated. I always prepare my students with the fact that this is one person's opinion, and it may or may not be accurate for their development. I do not have low standards for my students, in fact, just the opposite. But when judges say things such as "you have no business playing this piece", or blaming the student for the fact that the piano is too high and the bench is unadjustable, things that the student cannot control, it is a problem. Another teacher's student was criticized for wearing a shirt with buttoned sleeves and he asked him if they were too tight, when the student responded no, the judge told him he should have rolled up his sleeves. Or how about the judge that tells a student that they have no business learning a piece that a teacher obviously picked out for them? I have no problem with judges if they are fair and make appropriate critical comments.
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#946624 - 02/28/08 04:38 PM Re: When judging is too harsh
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12141
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Oh, one last thing before I scoot. Solo/Ensemble is not a competition where students compete against one another. It is similar to MTNA auditions where any number of students can go to state. Solo/Ensemble is technically called a "music festival" and not a competition.
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#946625 - 02/28/08 05:29 PM Re: When judging is too harsh
Loki Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/09/05
Posts: 1035
Loc: Texas
 Quote:
Originally posted by Morodiene:
Oh, one last thing before I scoot. Solo/Ensemble is not a competition where students compete against one another. It is similar to MTNA auditions where any number of students can go to state. Solo/Ensemble is technically called a "music festival" and not a competition. [/b]
It depends on whether the purpose of the competition is to encourage students and make them feel good or to actually judge the students on their playing and give students what they deserve. Personally, I believe that if a student doesn't sound good enough, then he shouldn't be moved on.
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#946626 - 02/28/08 05:47 PM Re: When judging is too harsh
keystring Online   content
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Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11805
Loc: Canada
What is the purpose of competitions?

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#946627 - 02/28/08 07:03 PM Re: When judging is too harsh
Stanny Offline
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Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 1461
I used to THRIVE on competitions. It really helped me to excel. But that's not true for everyone.
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Member: MTNA, NGPT, ASMTA, NAMTA

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#946628 - 02/28/08 07:26 PM Re: When judging is too harsh
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5962
Loc: Down Under
 Quote:
Originally posted by eromlignod:
People who can't stand to lose should not enter contests where they are judged. If it induces them to quit altogether, that's a flaw in their character, not the fault of the judging [/b]
I don't think Morodiene was talking about students who "couldn't stand to lose" but about the appropriateness of the judging.
I accompany many singers and instrumentalists for all sorts of competitions, eisteddfods, scholarship auditions, exams. They all have various purposes, and some entrants as well as organisers will emphasise one purpose over another. For example, scholarship auditions are definitely a competition in that the "winner" gets the scholarship. Someone has to be judged to be "best", and as there's a lot riding on the outcome, performers can get pretty stressed. I find festivals/eisteddfods/competitions vary greatly. Some emphasise the thrill of performing to an audience. Some tend to home in on the "first, second, third" stuff. Judges vary enormously, too. Some are just plain good at it, and others should take lessons from them before they venture into the field!
I find in the overwhelming majority of cases the reason for entering is to gain performance experience, and to benefit from the comments of the judge/s. I see no reason whatever for a judge to make belittling or unfair comments. If the performer is underprepared and performs badly or is doing something seriously wrong why can't it be dealt with in a humane way? "You need to work on …", or "Make sure you …" is surely a more useful thing to say than "your work was rubbish". You don't need to tell someone they're good when they're not, and it's not about protecting them from failure. It's in the way you do it. The power of words, if you like. Judges should realise that the very same words may have little effect on one person and absolutely devastate another. And they have no way of telling which person is which.
I am in the position of being able to recommend judges for various festivals, and there are a few I have come across whom I would never ever recommend, others I recommend freely. That's about all I can do. And all teachers can do I suppose is explain to the students that judges are all different, their opinions are different, and some are just simply pleasanter people than others.
I might just add that many of the competitions I am involved with do in fact "acknowledge that every contestant is a winner in his own way" and I can't see anything wrong with that. It doesn't mean that everyone gets a prize, or that they're all told they're brilliant when they're obviously not. But the achievement of standing up and performing is acknowledged. In fact they are encouraging to all these students who are never going to have performing careers, but might just end up being people who love playing for others and themselves. Not all competitions are just about the top prizewinner.
Sorry - this ended up rather long \:\)
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#946629 - 02/28/08 08:10 PM Re: When judging is too harsh
AZNpiano Online   happy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5556
Loc: Orange County, CA
Morodiene:

I send my students to many competitions, adjudicated festivals, and exams each year. Most of the time I find the comments to be appropriate, but a bit on the nice end. Sometimes the comments are so nice, there's hardly any constructive criticism. I feel that the "positive spin" and "sandwich effect" ideas have gone overboard.

That being said, I've encountered many examples of inappropriate comments from judges. One judge REPEATEDLY criticized my choice of repertoire while saying nothing of the performance itself. Another judge spent half a page explaining why the first two notes of the piece should be played non-legato. Another judge disqualified my student simply because the judge is SO UNEDUCATED, that she has never heard of the composer before. Sometimes the comments are written with an air of arrogance (ex) "If you don't do anything differently, don't bother taking the repeat." And sometimes the comments are just plain wrong, displaying a lack of musical knowledge on the part of the adjudicator.

There are several reasons for such inappropriate comments:

1) The competition chairperson didn't screen the judges effectively.

2) The judges are such accomplished performers themselves, and thus nothing from students is ever good enough for them.

3) An advanced degree from a prestigious conservatory does not guarantee the judge is an expert in ALL types of repertoire--this is especially true for contemporary music!!

4) The judge is simply a despicable human being who takes joy in degrading children.
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#946630 - 02/28/08 09:43 PM Re: When judging is too harsh
Piano*Dad Offline
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Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10406
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Our local federation gives out Superiors quite liberally. Getting an Excellent instead is a deflation, and a mark of Good is positively catastrophic! ;\)

In fairness, the purpose of this audition is not competition but participation and encouragement. Judges work all day long with students and deserve a lot of understanding if they give quick comments instead of detailed feedback.

Like Currawong, my experience of judging is very mixed. Some are very conscientious and extremely knowledgeable, while others seem a little too .... amateur, for my tastes. Some are very thoughtful, and others engage in biting and/or sarcastic commentary for which there is NO justification.

In general, though, the lower level the event the more likely the judges are at least to 'do no harm.' Real competitions have losers and losing due to idiosyncratic (or worse) judging can be painful. Yet most students who enter competitions are prepared for that sort of experience by their teachers (and/or parents). All students who enter competitions should know that there is a huge amount of randomness in judging just like there is a huge variation is personality types you meet every day.

Keystring asked about the purpose of competitions. I'll give two words as a preliminary answer ..... fun challenge.

Without starting the wars again over high level competitions and their supposedly conservative effect on playing and repertoire, I have to say that my experience at competitions for young pianists has been quite positive.

One great advantage of competitions has been exposure. The kids get to see what other kids are doing, and in the case of the best ones everyone else gets to see just what is possible for the ones with good skill and great work habits. The kids also get to see that they are not alone. There are other kids out there who take this piano stuff seriously.

These are benefits that come from participation, not winning.

Not that winning is such a bad thing .....
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#946631 - 02/28/08 11:07 PM Re: When judging is too harsh
pianobuff Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 1580
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Thanks Morodiene for bringing back some bad memories of last year's competition.

I had a very bad experience last year with one of our local competitions.

1.) It was unorganized.

2.) The chairperson was young and inexperienced to take on the responsibility of the event (not to completely blame her) although she asked for no help.

3.) Our local President was not in town to oversee things.

4.) Badly picked Judges. One judge was not a pianist, but an organist who does not teach piano at all and does not teach children. The other judge was getting her doctorate in Piano Performance, who was a student and her music professor's child was playing in the event!!

5.) Repertoire guidlelines were not clear.

So the outcome, was very deflating. With all of the hard work I and other teachers, parents and especially students put in, with their practice and repertoire and then it was judged in a blatently biased and uneducated fashion. Boy was it ever upsetting!

My students have been in competitons before, but this was way off, and it is not because my student didn't place, although honestly she should have, and other teachers agreed. It was poorly and unfairly put together, likewise, my student and others suffered.

This particular student had placed in the passed and had not placed in the passed as well. I am fine and happy to not see her win. But when it is obvious that things are not being judged fairly or with just common sense, that's when it is hard.

But I guess that life, and what to expect at times. It was definately a learning experience!

So back to the question, are competitions worth it?

I think Piano Dad's response was good, they should be fun and a challenge, add encouraging too, which is the Judges responsibility.

Otherwise, no they are not worth it, imo.
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#946632 - 02/28/08 11:16 PM Re: When judging is too harsh
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11805
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
One judge was not a pianist, but an organist who does not teach piano at all and does not teach children.
Try, trombonist judging violinists. I can't forget hearing him advise the member of a quartet to do more of that wiggly thing with the finger.

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#946633 - 02/29/08 12:33 AM Re: When judging is too harsh
Candywoman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 855
In our festival, we often have a problem with organizers trying to collect audiences. So there might be three children in a category, and they might have to listen to two other similar categories before being judged and hearing comments. So the whole experience can take two hours. With kids being busy, it's difficult to pull them out of school more than once or twice to enter.

But I love the idea of competition. They have a non-competitive class in which they only give marks and/or comments. But for me, it's more fun to give students at least the possibility of winning something.

With respect to ill-chosen pieces, sometimes the judges are right about these things. I once accompanied a twelve year old girl who sang "Stormy Weather". The judge said, "You should sing that after you've had two divorces, not when you're twelve", and he was right!

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#946634 - 02/29/08 01:23 AM Re: When judging is too harsh
AZNpiano Online   happy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5556
Loc: Orange County, CA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Candyman:
With respect to ill-chosen pieces, sometimes the judges are right about these things. [/b]
Well, there was once a judge who told my student to stay away from such "empty repertoire." My student played a piece by Lowell Liebermann. Apparently the judge doesn't know who Liebermann is.

We're not talking about American Idol here. Idol judges can criticize people's song choice because the singers pick their own songs. When judges criticize repertoire selection at a piano competition, they are criticizing the teacher, not the student. And that comes across as highly unprofessional.

Which reminds me--at a master class two years ago, the master teacher openly blasted a student for using the Schirmer edition. What the heck!? Not all parents want to spend $40 to buy the Henle Urtext edition. The student is getting yelled at for things beyond his control. How stupid!
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#946635 - 02/29/08 07:01 AM Re: When judging is too harsh
Ragnhild Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 1117
Loc: Norway
originally posted by Innominatio:
 Quote:
A child has a way to stay focused, but for God's sake it is not a competition. IN fact, the idea of having competitions for children at such tender age would have been considered pretty sick by most parents.[/b]
I agree, but there seem to be quite a difference between American and European culture here..

I can not imagine how anyone can compete in music at all, what is the ultimate performance ?
The fastest Fantasy Impromptu ? The most metric Bach fugue ? The most schmalzy Liebestraum ? The jury members favourite piece played by the prettiest girl ?

To me it's just weird, the only point I can see is that it's a chance to come together and enjoy music, but there seem to be people who love to compete and that will make an extra effort for a contest.

If you have a contest in music, the criterias for judging should at least be very clear to the performer before entering.

Ragnhild
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#946636 - 02/29/08 08:24 AM Re: When judging is too harsh
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11805
Loc: Canada
 Quote:

I can not imagine how anyone can compete in music at all, what is the ultimate performance ?
The fastest Fantasy Impromptu ? The most metric Bach fugue ? The most schmalzy Liebestraum ? The jury members favourite piece played by the prettiest girl ?

I have surmised that there are two concepts to the word "perform".

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#946637 - 02/29/08 09:15 AM Re: When judging is too harsh
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10406
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
 Quote:
"You should sing that after you've had two divorces, not when you're twelve", and he was right!
Thanks! That made my day .... \:\)

Ragnhild says that music competitions should have clear criteria. Part of me says I wish it were so, but the other part of me says that an attempt to create such criteria would be worse than a waste of time.

The clearer the criteria the more like a track and field event the competition could be. But that is a false analogy, and an undesirable one as well. In the abstract, clear criteria would mean fairness in some sense, and that is the reason we want such criteria. But lets examine an artistic event that tries to have objective criteria.

Ice skating has mandatory deductions for this and for that. Supposedly this is to diminish judging discrepancies ....someone assigning a 9.9 and someone else assigning a 9.1 for the same quality performance. At least in youth piano competitions the judging is often broken into categories; this many points allocated to memory, this many to stage presence (yeah, that's an objective measure), this many to accuracy etc. Again, the purpose seems to be to narrow the potential for silly and idiosyncratic BIG differences in scoring of the same contestant.

It doesn't work in ice skating and it clearly doesn't work in piano judging. In a sense, it is a false scientism. If you really want to narrow the range of scoring to prevent a judge from unfairly 'throwing' the competition by giving someone a 1 out of 100 then you throw out the high and the low scores, which is a technique often employed. Then again, Richter and Gilels used that technique to undo scoring shenanigans at the 1958 Tchaikowsky!

An artistic competition must rely on human judging of inherently subjective things. Just what is the appropriate tradeoff between technical accuracy and musicality? Just what is musicality? On the one hand, a reasonable person could chuck the whole idea of judging such things as ridiculous. On the other hand, I think most of us have been to events of this sort where one or two students just put a spell on all the listeners and it is clear that they have something special going on that day.

Lastly, for younger students there really isn't much on the line .... unless parents stupidly place their own egos in the spotlight. You can create an environment for kids that makes competitions fun and challenging, or one in which competitions are scary and consuming. The act of competing isn't the issue. Life has many competitive aspects. It's what you do with it.
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#946638 - 02/29/08 10:28 AM Re: When judging is too harsh
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11805
Loc: Canada
Is performing music like ice skating? Should it be? If performing is the telling of a story, presenting the music, in which telling the audience is an integral part, how does that fit into competitions? Can you tell a story to a jduge and involve him, when he must be impartial? Is performance at a competition a different thing, which hones skills, gets rid of anxiety, so that later the storytelling can begin?

I have read numerous people who feel judged, have an anxiety of not being able to play well enough, of making mistakes ... as though under judgement. Again - are there two meanings to the word "performance"? If so, do they blend somewhere? Can something get lost?

Or am I wrong? What was Bach doing when he had the friendly play-off with the local organist?

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#946639 - 02/29/08 01:49 PM Re: When judging is too harsh
pianobuff Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 1580
Loc: Pacific Northwest
 Quote:
Originally posted by keystring:
Is performing music like ice skating? Should it be? If performing is the telling of a story, presenting the music, in which telling the audience is an integral part, how does that fit into competitions? Can you tell a story to a jduge and involve him, when he must be impartial? Is performance at a competition a different thing, which hones skills, gets rid of anxiety, so that later the storytelling can begin?

I have read numerous people who feel judged, have an anxiety of not being able to play well enough, of making mistakes ... as though under judgement. Again - are there two meanings to the word "performance"? If so, do they blend somewhere? Can something get lost?

Or am I wrong? What was Bach doing when he had the friendly play-off with the local organist? [/b]
It can be, and it should be like an ice skating competition, imo.

If you are going to have a competition, you need to have experienced and competant judges and more than two, preferably. It needs to be judged on a point system, like 1 - 5 with different catagories to judge on each piece.

There should then be a person that collects the adjudicator's forms where a separate group tallies up the points. They are the ones to announce the winners.

Judges should be out of the county and have no ties to the participants or teachers, if at all possible.

Judges should be screened, given rules and guidlines themselves that THEY need to follow.

Students and teachers also need sold rules regarding repertoire, etc... that they need to follow.

Make it a fair, level playing field, run it professionally as possible, and only then would I have my students participate.
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#946640 - 02/29/08 02:13 PM Re: When judging is too harsh
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7407
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Pianobuff, the many negative responses reflects why I stay clear of competitions and rely on the Piano Guild for measurement of my students' progress. It's non-competative and students are measured against a standard, as much as that's possible. Some judges, in an attempt to be helpful, have given me repertoire suggestions, but I keep in mind that I know my students best, and the reperoire selected is generally what they needed as they needed it, something a judge can never know. Sometimes judges feel they just have to say something to justify their paycheck. Why not just say - your students did a great job - I can see you're an experienced teacher - it was a pleasure to evaluate them. And then, shut up!
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#946641 - 02/29/08 04:23 PM Re: When judging is too harsh
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12141
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
 Quote:
Originally posted by Loki:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Morodiene:
Oh, one last thing before I scoot. Solo/Ensemble is not a competition where students compete against one another. It is similar to MTNA auditions where any number of students can go to state. Solo/Ensemble is technically called a "music festival" and not a competition. [/b]
It depends on whether the purpose of the competition is to encourage students and make them feel good or to actually judge the students on their playing and give students what they deserve. Personally, I believe that if a student doesn't sound good enough, then he shouldn't be moved on. [/b]
This is true. But my post is not about fair judgment of playing, but about harsh judgment. If a student plays fairly, then I expect a score and comments that match. If they play well and get a lot of negative feedback, I have a problem with that.
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#946642 - 02/29/08 04:26 PM Re: When judging is too harsh
Morodiene Offline
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Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12141
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
 Quote:
Originally posted by currawong:
 Quote:
Originally posted by eromlignod:
People who can't stand to lose should not enter contests where they are judged. If it induces them to quit altogether, that's a flaw in their character, not the fault of the judging [/b]
I don't think Morodiene was talking about students who "couldn't stand to lose" but about the appropriateness of the judging.
I accompany many singers and instrumentalists for all sorts of competitions, eisteddfods, scholarship auditions, exams. They all have various purposes, and some entrants as well as organisers will emphasise one purpose over another. For example, scholarship auditions are definitely a competition in that the "winner" gets the scholarship. Someone has to be judged to be "best", and as there's a lot riding on the outcome, performers can get pretty stressed. I find festivals/eisteddfods/competitions vary greatly. Some emphasise the thrill of performing to an audience. Some tend to home in on the "first, second, third" stuff. Judges vary enormously, too. Some are just plain good at it, and others should take lessons from them before they venture into the field!
I find in the overwhelming majority of cases the reason for entering is to gain performance experience, and to benefit from the comments of the judge/s. I see no reason whatever for a judge to make belittling or unfair comments. If the performer is underprepared and performs badly or is doing something seriously wrong why can't it be dealt with in a humane way? "You need to work on …", or "Make sure you …" is surely a more useful thing to say than "your work was rubbish". You don't need to tell someone they're good when they're not, and it's not about protecting them from failure. It's in the way you do it. The power of words, if you like. Judges should realise that the very same words may have little effect on one person and absolutely devastate another. And they have no way of telling which person is which.
I am in the position of being able to recommend judges for various festivals, and there are a few I have come across whom I would never ever recommend, others I recommend freely. That's about all I can do. And all teachers can do I suppose is explain to the students that judges are all different, their opinions are different, and some are just simply pleasanter people than others.
I might just add that many of the competitions I am involved with do in fact "acknowledge that every contestant is a winner in his own way" and I can't see anything wrong with that. It doesn't mean that everyone gets a prize, or that they're all told they're brilliant when they're obviously not. But the achievement of standing up and performing is acknowledged. In fact they are encouraging to all these students who are never going to have performing careers, but might just end up being people who love playing for others and themselves. Not all competitions are just about the top prizewinner.
Sorry - this ended up rather long \:\) [/b]
Well put, currawong. I couldn't agree more. Most of the students I teach are not on track to be professional performers. I am just providing them with a love of music and ways to express it, and I think that is the case for most students who do MTNA auditions or Solo & Ensemble festivals.
_________________________
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www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#946643 - 03/01/08 12:39 AM Re: When judging is too harsh
Candywoman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 855
I know this is off your thread Morodiene...
If judging were purely subjective,it would be difficult to guess the mark a student would get. But just this week, I guessed my student would get 83% on her piano exam and she got 84%. So you don't need to come up with a fancy breakdown of the mark to have some consistency. People who mark English essays could give an essay a mark after one reading that most other professors would concur with.

The problem with our festivals is they mark too high in a so-called attempt to encourage the student. But the exams are much more useful when it comes to marks.

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#946644 - 03/04/08 12:40 AM Re: When judging is too harsh
calvinc Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 4
Music is not a competition. But I can see how winning those competitions could propel one's music career forward.

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