I would like to have a honest opinion from you, teachers. Is it possible for someone, who play piano for 8 years, someone who has never worked seriously and have bounch of bad habits to become good or at least advanced pianist?

I have set goal. 8 months of serious practice, learning technique...i think that 8 months are enought that improvment would be noticable... if i fail to improve in 8 monhts, i guess ill never be good piano player...

Greenrain, here's my opinion based on a couple of years of teaching :rolleyes: (coming up on 30 now):

- you can learn good pianistic technique, even after 8 years of ingraining bad habits. These will be new to you, and sufficiently different that you'll be able to default to them after a while.

- 8 months is seriously not anywhere near long enough to accomplish this goal. If you can find a tough as nails teacher, take at least 2 lessons a month (90 min or so each), put in 10 to 15 hrs of highly focused work each week, you can probably gain superior technique in 3 or 4 years.

Short answer - yes. You more or less describe me from the ages of 7-14. Within 3 years of getting a good teacher and working hard I had two performing diplomas.
Do you have a good teacher?
I wouldn't be too strict about the 8 months thing! Don't keep pulling up the plant to look at the roots - just keep feeding it .

I don't really understand your idea about passing a verdict on yourself after 8 months and telling yourself you will never be a good player. That doesn't seem to me to be a goal but a deadline, with the emphasis on dead. By all means evaluate your progress after 8 months, by all means aim to achieve certain things (in consultation with your teacher) but don't attach any life sentences to it . Really.

The moment I had a good teacher, I was able to make remarkable progess in everything I learned from that point on. Bur for me, that did not happen until about age 19.

To this day, the things that bother me the most are advanced pieces that I learned in high school, because the fingering was all wrong. It's much worse having to go back and fix things that are wrong that have been "burned into the brain".

If I have had to teach any of those pieces, I fixed them long ago. But if not, and I am still horrified to see what I was taught then—or not taught.

GreenRain - I've done some of that. You learn what to do instead of what you are doing, usually with someone identifying cause and effect and guiding the way. Patience and trust in the process is the key.

You wrote elsewhere that your teacher does not work on technique with you. If you told her that you are interested in doing just that, do you think she might start addressing technique? Sometimes teachers think their students aren't interested and want only to play pieces. They respond and even welcome it if asked - depending on the teacher.

One very important thing to add to John's "very focussed" -- when you replace an old habit with a new one, the old habit is comfortable. Always use the new habit, never let go and "just play" in a manner that the old can creep in. It is surprising how fast new things can catch hold if you do that, and also how small things can make big differences.

(writing as student)

Some general thoughts:

What editions do you use? Or do you learn from copied or down-loaded manuscripts? Good editions have good fingerings. They may not be perfect for you, but they are an excellent point of departure. For example, if you (this comment is for intermediate or higher pianists) study from Henle, UE, Peters Germany editions, the editors are top teachers whom you'd pay $150/hr or more for lessons. For just a few dollars more than a cheap edition, you can have their fingerings! What a bargain!!!

Speaking of fingerings, religiously use the ones in the edition, then, if they seem problematic, discuss it with your teacher. Do not invent your own fingering at this point. Please accept that you simply do not have the knowledge base to do so. If you find yourself "running out of fingers" you're doing something wrong. Stop playing and find out why. In fact, any place you stumble is an area you should dissect. If you cannot seem to make headway, this is what you should be talking about with your teacher.

At the beginning of each lesson, after exchanging a few pleasantries, I ask students what piece they enjoyed practicing the most and what problems they encountered through the week. Amazingly, week after week, year after year, most students "have no problems" until they play for me and suddenly, a host of problems arise.

Ask your teacher for advice on how to practice. Playing a piece through 5 times is not practicing - it is playing a piece 5 times. Practicing is problem solving. I assure you, none of us plays a piece perfectly, we only are at different levels of achieving that illusive goal.

I'm laughing.

What always makes me shake my head are mistakes that are perfectly learned. It's obvious they have been played that way at home. They are habits. But I hear, "I played it right at home. I don't know why I'm missing this now."

About fingering: I think it's the most important part of technique. It is impossible to build a really good technique without good fingering, and this may be the most valuable thing handed down from a really good teacher to an excellent student. The best of fingerings in the best of editions still don't take into consideration hand size, so I would recommend that students have their teachers look over the fingering in any edition before working on something. I'm certainly more than happy to do that.
This is the biggest misconception that most students have. I try to get your above point across by talking about something that is long. What if a student is working on a very long sonata? Would or should that student play through a sonata, all movements, that takes the best part of an hour to perform? Several times in a row? From beginning to end?

This would be insane.

For some reason students don't understand that playing straight through something that is 10 minutes long is equally insane.

I have students that I have worked with for years who still want to begin at the beginning, before showing me progress on problem spots. I stop them immediately and *demand* that they show me sections first. On that one point I am absolutely rigid.

GreenRain,

I think you will find the ability to change things if you work diligently to find out what those things are that need changing. Perhaps its also things that need adding to your regimen. Often it is both.

Putting a time frame on your learning is not helpful to you. When you have worked on the right things and have improved enough, the "magic" will start happening, and not before.

Set goals. Ask for "Directive Education" from your teacher. Ask her to list the things that will help you make improvements. Don't try to take on too many tasks at once.

What is the order of the day during any practice you sit down to do? Agenda? Quality of practice is better than quantity of practice.

Good luck!

Betty

Thanks for all advices:)

Ok, few things.

First, i think that some of you misunderstood me. I know that my technique wont improve to virtuoso in 8 months:) I wanted to say that i want to see improvments in 8 months... no mather how big they are.

Second, I have teacher, and i visit her 4 times monthly for 45 minutes.
I told her (just 1 week ago) that i want to work on technique and she said thats ok, that's she is glad that i decide that way.
For beggining she gave me task to practice scales in many ways (normal, staccato, accent on every 2nd note, she also show me practice for octaves etc...). She gave me some czherny etudes and i also notice that she is more stricter about my playing... (if i lift hand too much, if i play some notes too staccato etc...)
I guess this is an improvment:)

If she is good? Honestly, i dont know... her technique is defenetly very advanced, and she know for every mistake i play without looking on sheets...(i dont mean mistakes like wrong notes, but other things)

I also think that her methods are pretty good... for example she always says that staccato practice (even on legato parts) improves speed skills... and she also gave me advice to play arpreggios in left hand of mozart's rondo alla turca in that octave part like chords untill i dont learn to play it correctly, then we can replace them with arpreggios...

That 8 months goal... it's not a deadline... i just dont have motivation to play for 1 year and not see improvment:) But i guess it should reflect in playing after few months...

Oh, about practice...

I ussually do scales and other technique related stuff for 30-60 minutes, new pieces for 30-120 minutes, and old one 30-60 minutes... On average day i practice 2-3 hours...

Im looking forward to your thoughts... and again, thank you very much:)

This sounds very positive. When you work on those kinds of things they give you new skills in your hands and also mind, and that transfers over to everything you play. The very fact that you now have technical goals, and specific things to work on, will make a change in your playing. As a student I went that route and it does make a difference.

thanks for supportive words...
And one thing, i always thought how hard it is to play scales fast and with correct fingering... but after one week of playing c major 30 minutes daily its nothing special... correct fingering just come by itself... so now i can play c major pretty fast and without thinking which finger should be on which key:)

GreenRain,
A lot of good comments from above, so I will try not to duplicate what they said. While it is good to set standards and goals for yourself and keep regular tabs on how you are progressing, I would caution you against the "am I good enough" standard. You must come to a point of understanding that you are exactly where you ought to be given your own unique experiences and abilities. There is no such thing as the "best" pianist (I know you didn't say this, but a lot of times that concept is underlying), only "better than where you were before." At every point in time, there will always be someone better and someone worse than you. So simply judge yourself according to your past: have you improved? If so, how much? Are you happy with this improvement? If not, then what should you do differently from now on to change that? Try not to be so hard on yourself, while setting goals and challenges to meet that will give you progress. It's such a delicate balance.

You might want to go beyond C Major scale. That's a lot of C Major scales in a week. But I'm so glad you are working on the fundamentals. Ideally, everyone should be able to play scales in all the major and minor keys.

Are you working out of the Hanon book?

This has been my experience as well

morodiene, thanks for warning, but i already know this. And i didnt say i am already good at c major, i just said that its not that hard, once you start practicing.

AZNPiano

I know it, but i have never before practice scales so i need a little longer to speed up and find correct fingerring... so far, i guess 1 scale per week is alright, when i will improve i will play more of them...

And no, i dont work on hanon book... but i download it yesterday and maybe im will practice some of excersises from it...