I have two very bright students 9 and 10(siblings), but they are extremely high-maintenance. They have trouble sitting still and focusing. Sometimes they are silly and want to play around. Once I get them to focus, they become very frustrated when they make a mistake and start pounding on the piano. I have calmly talked to them about their frustrations, but that doesn't work. I can usually get the older one to make a game of his practice, but that never works for the 9-year-old girl when she's upset. They only thing I've been able to do is let her work it out herself or give up on the piece and do something else. Any ideas?

I just cannot imagine this set of circumstances. A nine year old pounding on the piano?

I'm not a teacher, so I'm going to listen with interest to their experiences.

One question, though. Are the parents aware of these issues? Does a parent sit in on the lesson? I know that parents sitting in can be a source of problems as well as a solution. In this case, it would seem the the parents could help a lot in maintaining discipline.

I'm not a teacher either, but I have a question.

It's not clear from your post if you teach them together or give individual lessons to each child. The misbehavior sounds like the kind of unruly acting out in which siblings might engage in each other's presence.

Steven

Some suggestions:

1) Do not schedule them back-to-back. Schedule them on separate days of the week.

2) Have the opposite-gender parent sit with them during the lessons. In my experience, the opposite-gender parent seems to exert more authority on the child.

3) Have you tried changing your tone of voice when you want their attention? A low, serious tone usually gets kids' attention better.

4) Don't put up with pounding on the piano. Give them a firm warning the first time, and if it ever happens again, the lesson's over--kindly ask them to leave.

I totally agree with AZNpiano...

I've learn the painful way that being too nice somehow does not work...I also had a 6 year old boy with his 8 year old sister, and despite kind and firm warnings, he is constantly pounding on the piano, and even CLIMBING the upright piano...and jumping down...

and for the first time, I packed his bag...and told him to leave the class...

Of course, his parents were not happy about that...But I didn't have a choice...I couldn't teach his sister, and he was a constant interruption...

He was more behaved after that...no thanks to his mother!!...

Could I suggest that you could make deals with them?...Like come to an agreement that if they were to complete the music piece, you could arrange a piano duet/pop-song/anything they might enjoy...that could bring a little change to the environment...

I made a little deal with another girl, and promised her a simple four-hand piano piece, for three music pieces she finishes...and that seems to work...

Good luck!!

I bribe mine with chocolate money. I was going to make them sit elsewhere in the room while I played but the chocolate money worked really well. The payoff is when they rush back to their mum with 'Look at how much I got today..or...."

I also agree with AZNpiano.

Pounding cannot be tolerated. If a student pounded on my piano, I'd end the lesson, sit them in a chair across the room, and call the parents to pick them up. I'd inform them that if I don't see a radical improvement in behavior next week, they can find another teacher.

All of AZNpiano's suggestions are good.

I would not recommend bribery or treats. First, it's a short term fix that will have limited use. Second, it'll teach them to expect rewards for expected behavior.

You are not a counselor, nanny, or doormat. Unless you plan on adding any of those titles to your resume, involve the parents and tell them you're going to quit teaching their children if things don't improve.

Agree 100%. I'm not a teacher but if anyone pounded on my pianos they'd be out on their ear.

Everyone who comes in to my house is welcome to have a go on the pianos, but no-one sits any drinks on them, bangs on them or abuses them in any other way, child or adult.

Children need to learn how to deal with their frustrations. Pounding on a fine instrument like the piano is not a way to deal.

It does seem that teachers (and parents) need some psych courses!

If they do it in the lesson, they also do it at home. And if it isn't a piano they pound on, it is a wall they put their fist through. You know...the temper tantrum in many forms.

Perhaps what is needed is to know that mistakes do happen and that it is part of the learning process and then how to deal with it otherwise...

How to practice? How to forgive the mistake? How to learn the learning process? How to say, Oh Darn... and then try it again?

Are they too hard on themselves? Or parents too hard on them?

I hope that you can resolve this for their sake as well as yours.

Considering our entire school system, both yours and mine, is reward-based, it's a drop in the ocean.

I guess I'm lucky -- I've never had a student not behave well in a lesson. I wouldn't tolerate the pounding, nor would I bribe. One talk with the parents, and if it happens again, they're out.* No one needs to put up with that behavior.

*I think along with that talk about behavior is also one about a schedule change. I agree that perhaps having them there at the same time is adding to the problem.

I am not a teacher, but I do believe that no teacher should put up with such behavior. If you have discussed this with the parents,have tried teaching the children separately, and there is no improvement in the behavior of the children, for your own peace of mind, you should absolutely refuse to teach them.

It is not your function to have to discipline these unruly children. You are a piano teacher, and with the current situation, you are unable to teach. Gaby Tu

I'm in total agreement with what the members have said in this thread. I do, and will NOT tolerate unruly behavior from children while they are having their piano lessons. I state this very clearly and firmly to the parents when they first enroll the child for lessons. Things like not pounding on the piano, absolutely NO eating allowed, clean fingers and hands, etc. I find that piano lessons go without a hitch once the parents and students understand my teaching policy.

Don't give up your day job! (i.e. venture into any inner-city classrooms)

Call the "Piano Nanny!"

Or "Nanny 911."

Why not present them with a gift certificate toward a copy of Philip's book? This is from his website: They may get the hint.

I had a little boy who, although he did not abuse my piano, decided to get really cheeky and snotty in the lesson and refused to do what he was asked. I told him the lesson was over, I asked his mother to come in and take him out of my house. When she asked what was up, I told her exactly what had transpired. Mommy was livid - not at me for ending the lesson but at him for being so nasty and disrespectful. That kid never acted up in a lesson again. But even if Mommy had been mad at me for judging her child's behavior, I'd have stood my ground and told him to go home. I had plenty of students and was not interested in putting up with bad behavior when I could be doing literally anything else with my time.

And unless you see some spark in a child that you yourself want to nurture, despite the immediate pain of dealing with immaturity and/or acting out, then that strikes me as the appropriate way to handle these situations. Your time is scarce and other students who are better motivated or better parented can fill those slots.

Yeah. This poor kid was a victim of his parents' desire to have him learn to play. He wasn't really all that interested although he did in fact have a pretty astute musical sense when I could get him to focus. The inspiration/imagery/painting-a-picture seemed to come naturally to him, but he did not want to learn the tools of the trade. Not entirely his fault - he came from a previous teacher whose students were sorely lacking in reading skills and it was really hard for him to go back to get the remedial training he needed to bring his reading up to par. But he really wanted to be out playing soccer, not inside playing piano. Still no reason to tolerate obnoxious behavior, although I did cut him a little more slack than I might have, if I had not known the background issues.

Miss Mary,

I was surprised to see you're from Texas. Most Texans I know are super-respectful. Well, except perhaps in Austin, which is, how shall I politely say it, "weird."

Lot of great advice above. We're all waiting for feedback at this point!

By the way, welcome on board. Do you participate in Piano Guild?

John

Some great advice here. Communication with the parents is imperative. Let them know that you will not tolerate this, and that perhaps they should wait outside or in the waiting area during the lessons in case they end early due to tantrums. Let the children know that you will send them home if they pound on your piano, no more warnings. Tell them that your instrument is expensive, and that it is not something akin to a punching bag. Perhaps set a limit, such as if they have to be removed from lessons early due to pounding a total of 3 times, then they will be dropped from your studio so that they understand the seriousness of the situation.

If they get frustrated, give them something else to do instead, preferably non violent, like have a stress ball handy they can squeeze or a soft stuffed animal they can pet. Also you can try to use diversionary tactics when you notice their frustration (have some funny music jokes handy to tell them, or some funny pictures to show them). Getting them to laugh at their mistakes and hardships is a good way of showing them how to deal with things that don't work perfectly.

Frustration is expecting one outcome and getting another, and so if they do not expect to do it perfectly the first, 5th or 10th time they will be less likely to get frustrated. Sometimes students get frustrated playing on an unfamiliar instrument, and so I let those that have a hard time with this play through the song once and I tell them I won't listen. Then they play it again for me to listen to.

This is a great opportunity to help these children in life, not just lessons. Some might say that's not your responsibility, but you are responsible for the time you have with each child, which may involve discipline (not physical of course) and teaching them how to handle things in a mature way. If you don't teach them, then who will? Better that they learn this now than later when their job or marriage might be on the line.