Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum (Guess the) Grand, upright, clunker or digital!

All this talk about the benefits of grand pianos got me thinking. As I have now broken up for the Christmas hols and am now bored I thought we might have some fun with this. A while ago over in piano forum I remember a guess the piano thread where you had to distinguish between various recordings of certain brands of piano. I decided it might be nice to post some recordings of different TYPES of piano instead. I am not trying to prove anything here, it’s just a bit of fun!

The recordings were made last night courtesy of one of my most advanced students. 17 year old Ben is hoping to audition for the top colleges next year. He has been playing the ‘Fantasie-impromptu’ by Chopin for a while now and has performed it a couple of times. I asked him to play the first couple of minutes on my four pianos and we recorded them.

Here is a description of the pianos (NOT in order of recordings!).

‘The grand’ - 2002 Wilh. Steinberg IQ77. This is a 5’ 8” grand piano bought for £11000 four years ago.

‘The upright’ - 1992 Schimmel 120I. A 48” upright bought for £3000 seven years ago.

‘The old clunker’ - 1979 Knight K10. A 112cm console bought for £600 last year.

‘The digital’ – Technics sx-pc25. A full size, fully weighted digital bought new back in 2000 for £750.

Here are the recordings in no particular order. I hope you manage to download them okay. The quality is not great as I only have a mini-disc recorder with a small mic. I did try to keep the levels and mic position the same for each one. Also, I apologise for the tuning of the ‘real’ pianos. They were last done in the summer and are due for tuning at the start of January (I can’t wait).

version 1

version 2

version 3

version 4


After you have had a listen and made comments I will post some of Ben’s thoughts on each instrument. The results will be posted on Sunday.

Happy guessing and Merry Christmas.

After listening to the again I have realised that they are a bit quiet, at least on my PC. If I record them onto audacity any louder they seem to get distorted. See what you think. If you can't hear them well enough I will see if it's possible to amplify them.

What wonderful fun, Chris! Hey... you might get more responses if you rename the thread "Guess the grand, upright, digital, etc."

Of course there is a bit of a downside in playing this game. I didn't feel (too) bad when I couldn't distinguish a Steinway from a Fazioli. But if I confuse a clunker with a grand, I'm in trouble...

That being said, here's my guesses:

Version 1: Digital
Version 2: Grand
Version 3: Better upright
Version 4: Clunker

PM me if I'm completely wrong and I'll hurriedly delete my post.

p.s. I heard them fine on my computer....

p.p.s. Please extend my compliments to your student on his impressive playing.

Thanks Monica. Don't worry, it's not an easy game as the recordings are not brilliant. That's not to say your guesses are wrong though.

I will pass on your compliments. He is a good lad, but his head is already quite big!

How do I change the name of the thread?

Hey Chris,

I'm not a teacher, but I want to play your game too.

I can hear your samples just fine. Do you want guesses posted here?

turandot, yes please, anyone can play. Posts guesses here.

It just occured to me that I am at risk of my expensive grand being called a 'clunker'

1: Clunker - I'm not sure if this or #4 is the clunker, but I chose this one because of the lack of brilliance in the high notes, and this tended to be more out of tune than the rest
2: Digital - due to the sound of the bass, and since you mentioned intonation of the pianos, that kind of gave it away for me.
3: Grand - nice deep bass and brightness in the upper range.
4: Newer upright - still sounded like an upright because of the first note in the bass, which lacks the depth of a grand, but it has seemed to hold its tune better than #1 and the higher notes come out a bit more, even though they lack the brilliance a grand can give them

1. Technics
2. IQ 77
3. Schimmel
4. Knight

No clunkers really. Your student proves the old adage that it's the musician and not the instrument. I went with the IQ for #2 because of the pronounced bass and the effortless pianissimo. The other guesses are based on the balance of attack and decay.

This was fun Chris (even if I've made an utter fool of myself )

Just hit "edit post" (i.e., your very first post where you started the thread) as usual, and the thread name will pop up too where you can edit it.

p.s. You may even want to start a new thread in the main forum, announcing the game and providing a link to it over here. I'm guessing there's a lot of people over there who would find this interesting but who don't regularly check out the teacher's forum.

Hey turandot! You and I made the same guesses... so if I am totally humiliated at the end at least I won't be alone.

OK, thread name changed.

I never thought of doing a link from the 'piano forum'. It will have to wait as I am making up a few lessons in 5 mins.

Uh, I'm not sure I really want to risk wearing egg all over my face ...

Hmmm, this is also a great example of the possibility of an informational cascade. If you're not sure which is which, and a process of personal choices begins to flow in publicly, choose what the previous people (or at least a majority of them) are choosing. If the first few choosers go off the track the whole lot of us could derail with them.

Schimmel
Digital
Grand
Clunker

Turandot is right. Your player makes them all sound good. Man he has fast fingers!

#2 is in too perfect tune therefore my guess as the digital. #3 has that Grand sound. the other two uprights might need to be tuned to hear a more dramatic differance.

Mike

From my old tin ear:

1.Technics SX-PC 25 Digital
2.Wilh. Steinberg IQ77 Grand
3.Schimmel 120I Upright
4.Knight K10 Console

Bear

David, If I knew how to post a picture of a Yellow Bellied Sap Sucking Chicken I would!
Give it your best shot!
Egg is good. I don't mind wearing it - if it fits.

Mike

There you go:

Mike, you and I are almost identical. I won't stick by my assessment between to two uprights, but I think I'm right on the grand and digital. If I'm wrong, though, it will just be a learning experience.

1 - digital
2 - grand
3 - upright
4 - clunker

Interesting responses so for. Thanks for those.

Did I mention that the first correct guess wins the clunker (joke!)

Please don't worry about coming to the wrong conclusion. Based on sound alone it isn't easy. I know all the pianos well and can honestly say that the recordings do sound a little strange to me. The mic I used is a bit pathetic.

A little clue. Based on what has been said over the past weeks one would assume that when playing the grand Ben would give his best performance. Maybe not in terms of accuracy or interpretation but it should be clearer, more even and articulate, dynamic contrasts should be easier to control etc. Hope this helps.

Okay, I'm going with:

1. digital
2. Schimmel upright
3. Grand
4. clunker

This is a really fun game! I sure hope I'm wrong. It will save me a lot of money on a grand.

Thanks for going to the trouble of posting this, Chris. The playing is beautiful on every piano.

Nancy

I listened to the recordings and all of em sound pretty decent to me. Here's my vote:

1 Grand
2 Digital
3 Quality upright
4 Old clunker that actually sounded pretty good.

Where do I collect my prize .

Best regards,

Rickster

You don't!

1. Schimmel Upright
2. Digital
3. Steinberg Grand
4. Clunker

That's fun! Props to Ben; I'm a junior music major and I don't play that well.

BTW, anyone have a link to the thread for identifying different brands? Or just the exact name of the topic. Thanks!

You guys have really good ears.

Honestly, they all sounded the same to me. I guess I won't be spending money on a grand any time soon, since I can't tell the difference.

I'm making my judgment based on the first chord, and the way it resonates:

1. Upright - the ringing is there, but not as powerful as that of a grand.
2. Digital - the only version where I didn't hear the distinct bass ringing.
3. Grand - the ringing sounds best of all choices.
4. Clunker - the ringing doesn't sound right (too much "buzz" in it).

I wouldn't be surprised if all of my choices were wrong (I never played a real acoustic) - but I'm pretty sure I got the digital right.

There were several such games/threads, but Ax cleverly named them with a typo to make them easy to find. Just search the archives for the word "Indentify" (note the misspelling) as the subject of the thread, and you'll find them.

Lots of fun, and not the greatest rate of accuracy among most of the responses.

1. Schimmel
2. Grand
3. Technic
4. Clunker

Let's see how those discerning ears work...
Well, if we are wrong, we can always still blame the 'bad' recording...

Tis the season for games...

Clunker
Digital
Grand
Upright

Here are some comments Ben made about the pianos.

The grand - Easily the most enjoyable to play (not sure he would dare say any other!). The action seems to give him greater control and therefore more confidence. It's very loud but also possible to play softer pp's than on some of the others.

The better upright - A little firmer than the grand and not quite as responsive. He said he found it a bit uneven when playing scale passages. Still very playable though and he liked the sound, especially in the bass.

The clunker - Not too bad (better in fact than his own piano!). He said it feels a bit mushy and there is much less dynamic contrast than the grand or Schimmel. The treble doesn't come through that well. Out of all the pianos he did think it had most 'character' and sounded musical in the lyrical section (perhaps he was just being kind).

The digital - He said the action was so light it was very easy to play fast. But....it almost feels like you are not really playing it. Contrasts were very easy to point out but he didn't get any feedback and found it hard to be musical in the slower section.

Here is a quick summary of the votes so far.

version 1 - Grand (1), Upright (4), Clunker (2), Digital (5)

version 2 - Grand (5), Upright (1), Clunker (0), Digital (6)

version 3 - Grand (6), Upright (5), Clunker (0), Digital (1)

version 4 - Grand (0), Upright (2), Clunker (10), Digital (0)

Keep them coming. There are plenty who have not had a guess yet. Don't be shy!

Okay, here's my lines up. One thing I do have is a great ear, so hope I don't hate myself in the morning!

version 1 Grand
version 2 Upright
version 3 Old clunker
version 4 Digital

The version 3 piano had some whiney notes, so I'm hoping its not your grand!

1. The Schimmel. The characteristic clarity is there that the Schimmels have, but it is defintiely an upright because the bass isn't as powerful.

2. The Technics. I have the SX/PX665, and this sounds lot like it. The "nice" piano sound is there, but there's no overtones.

3. The Steinberg. Not a bad sounding grand.

4. The Knight clunker (not bad really for a clunker). There's a lot of buzzing and extra ringing like the dampers aren't seating properly when the note is terminated.

I'm probably way out in left field somewhere, but this is what I think they are.

John

A few people even though my Vogel was a Steinway! :p

John

And we gotta wait HOW long for the answers?

There will be a lot of sheepish faces and hasty excuses if #4 turns out to be the grand.

OK, I'll weigh in and shed the 'yellow-bellied chicken' label. I'll even go out on a limb!


1) Knight (agreed, not bad for a 'clunker').

My strong view here is that this one is NOT the grand or the digital.

-----

2) the digital.

Here's my limb: I'll eat my proverbial hat (figuratively, folks) if this guess is wrong. It just has that digital reverb sound and the bass just plain sounds sampled from a piano bigger than 5'8"

-----

3) I think this is the Steinberg.

-----

4) By default, this is the Schimmel.

It sounds like a vertical. I could easily switch my guesses for 1 and 4.

You ARE taking a brave stance, piano*dad! I picked #1 for the digital because of all the samples, it sounded the most muted in the attack, without that acoustic "plunk" I hear when real hammers hit real strings.

Well, upon reviewing the entire thread, it seems that my choice of #2 as the digital is the mode at present. Not that there is any safety in numbers here. As Chris notes, the microphones have a big influence on sound. If they add distortion then there will be a lot more 'noise' in the distribution of choices because of that.


And just looking at the numbers, if the grand is 2 or 3 and the digital is 1 or 2 then everything is OK with the world. The 'group' will have zeroed in on the truth collectively.

The results will have to wait until Sunday afternoon or evening as I am going away for a couple of days. The time here is currently 16:10 Thursday afternoon.

Besides, there are still a few regular posters who are keeping quiet.

Here's my uneducated take

1. Clunker
2. Digital
3. Grand
4. Upright.

impressive playing btw

Aww, you're keeping us in suspense all weekend???

Good for you Dad!

Monica, listen to the very first note of sample #1. If that's a digital then forget the notion that digitals never need tuning.

Mike

Wrong notion Mike. It's not that they don't need tuning - they are often enough out of tune but they can't be tuned.

Going out on a limb here:

1. Clunker
2. Digital
3. Grand
4. Upright

So I gotta ask you, Supply; which piano do think is the digital? [nervously waits for answer]

Hmm, should I just a post a list, or describe my choices, increasing the embarrassment in the case I'm wrong? Well, I'll go ahead:

1) Upright - It sounded like the ones I've played on, and nothing bad enough to be a "clunker".

2) Digital - The tone seemed a bit dull at times, which is my experience with digitals.

3) Grand - but it wasn't an immediate recognition or anything. I think it sounded nicer overall.

4) "Clunker" - By process of elimination, though I'm still not sure whether 1 or 4 is the "clunker" since they both sound okay to me. None of the examples sounded horrible to me. I've played on horrible pianos, I know their sound, and there was nothing too bad in these samples.

Nothing here was exceptionally better in my opinion to anything else.

After 1st listen I'm thinking

1 Schimmel
2 Digital
3 Grand
4 Klunk

I don't think 1 is the digital, as I seem to recall having heard a couple bobbling hammers. I'll see if my mind changes after having another listen.

2 is digital
3 is grand

I'm quite positive # 1 is a real piano.

It's a toss-up between 1 and 4, but I'd have to say 1 is the clunker. Which would of course leave 4 to be the upright.

I'd go with :

1) Clunker
2) Digital
3) Grand
4) Schimmel

I, as a few others apparently, hesitaded a lot between 1 and 4, but I'm now pretty confident in my choice... At least if I'm completely wrong I won't be alone

1 - digital
2 - grand
3 - upright
4 - clunker

Clunker
Digital
Grand
Upright

1. Schimmel upright
2. Digital piano
3. Wilh. Steinberg grand
4. Knight upright

Clunker
Digital
Grand
Upright

1 Clunker
2 Digital
3 Grand
4 Schimmel

The recordings are so compressed though that it is hard to really judge. I thought that the digital and grand were easily recognizable. The differences between 1 and 4 were harder to discern but they were definitely uprights.

Of course depending on how they were recorded (mic placement) it could fake us all out here.

1 - Schimmel
2 - Digital
3 - Grand
4 - Clunker

try this again after you've tuned them next month and i think it will be much more interesting...

1)Clunker
2)Grand piano
3)Digital
4)newer Upright

I made my selection before reading through all the other guesses. I feel secure in the fact that my choices are not far off from very "reputable" contributors.

- CMajor13

Just saw this thread. Here's my stab at this, prior to seeing the other replies:

1)Upright
2)Grand
3)Digital
4)Clunker

1. Digital
2. Schimmel
3. Grand
4. Clunker

1. Clunker--that's one nasty sounding piano.
2. Digital--unbalanced--the bass is weak--like a cheap digital piano.
3. Grand--it simply sounds the best and the playing is better too.
4. Upright--ok sounding, but could use a tuning.

OK. Stop torturing us. Tell everybody that i'm right!

1)Knight--Least savory of the bunch, but not so bad, brittleness gave it away, harsh at times.
2)DP. Fairly neutral and in tune, not much ringing. I liked it, crisp, and thought it was grand originally.
3)I'll call the small grand. The runs seemed cleaner and lighter, more simply played.
4)Schimmel, but, at first, thought it was the grand before hearing infamous Schimmell box ringing. Unless that was the phone. Tough test. Some passages closely run and thought test was crooked at first. But after a few listenings . . .

OK, sorry for the wait.

Here are the results!

1 - Clunker. As some said, not too bad. It does sound a little better when tuned but at the end of the day it is a £600 piano.

2 - Digital. The only one in tune which gives it away a bit. Interesting that quite a few got this mixed up with the grand. I suppose it is sampled from a grand.

3 - Grand. Phew! I am so glad that most of you got this. So I didn't waste all that money after all. Only one person thought it was the clunker. I know who you are, where you live and I will be coming for you

4 - Schimmel upright. Okay, so maybe I wasted my money on this . Trust me, it sounds much better in the flesh. I had to convert the recordings to mp3 in order to upload them (wav files were too large). It's easy to see why you would mix up no. 1 and 4. I would like to know more about the 'infamous box ringing' though.

And so the winner is....

MORODIENE

Not only did she nail it within an hour of my post but she gave accurate reasons for each choice. I thought it was game over right from the start! Well, after the terrible week you have had I guess you could use some good news (however small)

Well done to all those who got it right.

Merry Christmas.

LOL Chris! Actually, I think it is due to the fact that I'm a voice teacher. We have to be able to really listen very well to the sounds our students make so that we can help them make adjustments. Plus, I've done a bit of recording myself, and so I can hear through the issues that come from lacking a $1,000 mic and professional equipment .

This was actually quite entertaining, and like one poster commented, I'd like you to try something similar when they're all in tune. I'd be really curious to hear how they sound side by side like that.

So when do I come get my free piano? :p

Shucks. Wrong again.

Thanks, Chris, for setting up the game. It was lots of fun, even if I didn't get a single gosh-darned piano right.

Following Chris' first count, 20 persons had a shot at it and gave the following answers :

1) grand (1), upright (6), clunker (11), digital (2)
2) grand (3), upright (2), clunker (0), digital (15)
3) grand (16), upright (1), clunker (1), digital (2)
4) grand (0), upright (11), clunker (8), digital (1)

50% of the people had all 4 answers correct. 80% got the grand right and 75% guessed which was the digital. The most missed answers are for the clunker and the upright, with 55% guessing each of them right.

If I add up Chris' count, we have :

1) grand (2), upright (10), clunker (13), digital (7)
2) grand (8), upright (3), clunker (0), digital (21)
3) grand (22), upright (6), clunker (1), digital (3)
4) grand (0), upright (13), clunker (18), digital (1)

Again, most people guessed the grand and the digital correctly (phew!), with 69 and 66 percents respectively. Only 41% found out which recording was of the clunker; this statistic holds true for the upright, with both pianos having been confused for one another a lot, as made evident by many comments throughout this thread.

Prior to Chris' count and posting of the comments by his student, only 2 people out of 12 (17%) had all their guesses right, dropping the overall statistic to 38%, compared to 50% following his recap. This can be explained through the fact that having access to the comments made by his student and to the previous statistics helped the subsequent people in finding the right answers.

All in all, I think we did a pretty good job, considering the non-optimal recordings and tunings. As a whole, our ears can rest assured. Some individuals should question their need of upgrading their $1500 digital for a much more expensive grand piano, though ;-)

Wow Damz, thanks for those very informative statistics. That must have taken up quite a lot of your time.

Regarding the final comment about the digital vs. grand. If you want to make a good recording without lots of expensive equipment the best way would be to go direct from a digital into a recording device. I could have done that. Instead of using a mic I could've just hooked up the digital to my MD recorder but this would have sounded much, much better than the other recordings. If you have an even better digital with a really good sample of a concert grand then that would give you a near perfect result. However, what the recording can't show is the difference in feel and touch between a decent grand and a digital. Also, if you were in the room and listening live you would notice the differences much more. Much as I admire the advances made in modern digital pianos they still can't compare to a good acoustic. I wonder if this will change in the future.

Chris H, let me just that say that if a student can play 4 different pianos, and adjust to each one the way yours did, then I'd say he has an outstanding teacher! Sounds to me like you are "Outstanding"!

Now, the grand had a moment and the doctor says it'll be a few weeks before my ear totally heals from the damage. Let's just agree that your grand did have a "clunker" moment! (How soon till your tunes comes over.)

Oh, and for your information, you'll never find me cause I'm hiding somewhere under the "Witness Protection Program"!

Thanks for that Diane. I can't take all the credit for Ben's playing though as I was lucky enough to inherit him when he was already very good. I think all of us know that students like this are few and far between.

You did actually here some whiney notes from my grand. I hear them too and it drives me crazy. Next tuning is scheduled for the 7th of January. It would have been December but my tech could not fit me in. When the weather starts to turn in November it puts all of the pianos out of tune (except the digital of course!). I will be glad to have them done.

Yippeeeee, I got 'em.

Although as many noted the choice between the Knight and the Schimmel was tough. No shame in reversing those two, though I suspect anyone actually sitting at the keyboards would be able to tell the difference by touch alone.

And I'm really glad I'm not eating my proverbial hat over the digital!