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AZN, your students should grab the opportunity with both hands. May I change the verb and say you are ** offering ** it to them (opportunity!)

Keystring,

With any of my students over age 12 or in 7th grade, I start to let them take the lead of what they want to present to me first from their list of new music, memorization, keeping learned music playable, technique, they are working on. They can choose it for whatever reason, and I ask them to tell me the reason this one was chosen. They may choose any part of it to play for me.

I will work on the content if anything is needing attention or comment. I will stop them if there already is a large enough segment that needs attention. We work on any one problem area at a time - accurate notes, fingering, counting, expression - dynamics - whatever is noted. I have been writing while the playing is going on usually so the "problem areas" are identified by measure numbers and the "diagnosis" of what improving will entail.

Then I ask will you play something else for me? This happens. If I am concerned about a piece I'm not hearing today, I will ask the student to make that first next week.

I'll ask have you learned something you can use today? Did this go better once you realized "such and such"? What will you be working on for this coming week? And, they will write out in their note book their music pieces for the next week (plus others pending).

They know their deadlines, if there are any, and they are as collaborative as they want to be.

Most of the teen students are fairly independant and responsible on their preparations.

Once in a while I will ask the student to play everything he practiced last week for me without stopping to hear my comments in between pieces. I will comment at the end of the presentation - and will write while it is being presented. This could be 4-5-6 pieces. This uses the time better for hearing more and gives me a good over view of what is evolving.

I try to compliment and encourage at every opportunity. And I praise a lesson that has been very well prepared.

If I need to caution the student about taking on less material, or needing to go slower in development, I will adjust the work load downward until everything balances out to playable.

So there is a different thing going on then you are suggesting, keystring, isn't there?

This is what came to my mind in your last posting that I thought you might like to know about.

Betty

Thank you, Betty, for describing what happens with your advanced students.

Actually this has gone off on a tangent. Originally the question concerned the need to fit in everything into a single lesson, and the possibility of booking another one as a solution. The particular scenario that came to mind is when something has come up which could merit a whole lesson, but it would skuttle whatever was planned. What an ideal solution, to simply schedule a lesson for it.

I think we are derailing the OT here, but I have a comment on what you think would be the ideal lesson, keystring.

First of all, I don't think it possible to answer all questions or discuss all ideas, regardless of time. I also think it good to not have enough time to discuss or hear everything played. This makes the next lesson something to look forward too, imo.

It is also important for the student to figure things out by themselves, for themselves, not being so dependent on the teachers views and instruction.

When I teach, I always end the lesson with, "call me if you have any questions," this seems to work most ideally for both teacher and student.

Like Morodiene, if I see a student needing extra help/time for performance or slow learning,etc... I will schedeule an extra lesson, and most often that lesson will be free of charge.

It is a package deal... music instruction that is. It is not just the one lesson that counts, it is the many lessons and relationship you have with your teacher, as well as the self instruction and practice that you do over the years of study.

Pianobuff, I was describing a scenario in my existing lessons, not some idealization.

I am assigned more than one thing, and there will not be time to cover everything in lessons, but I am expected to work on and develop the other things. I am not a beginner. Some of my assignments have stages. We are expected to practice a minimum of three hours daily. A lot of ground can be covered in those three hours.

I mentioned that my teacher prefaces each lesson by asking about my practicing. We might be working on a piece, but a technical assignment might have advanced. My teacher wants to know about such things, and then he wants to spend the time in bringing it to the next level. In these cases HE might choose to book an extra lesson so that we can work on that thing, without losing the thread on what we is being emphasized in the current lesson.

Are these scenarios totally unfamiliar then?

Originally I only mentioned them by way of explanation as to why I had written "One hour lesson is not enough" which Betty quoted. I didn't mean to bring on another tangent. I didn't realize that most lessons don't involve such things since for me they are the norm. I didn't meant to cause confusion.

Addendum: For where you thought I was heading, I appreciate you caring enough to correct the impression of what an ideal lesson might be like. It would be far from idea, and would lead exactly nowhere. Thank you.

Well, I think there's more to our differences than just teaching arenas

And if you actually think teaching in a classroom isn't in the minute - well, perhaps you haven't been there?

Yes, I notice if someone is unprepared, negative, non-contributing. Don't you? I don't think noticing that has to do with the venue.

And, tho most of my teaching has been with adults, by no means all of it was graded or geared to a degree, and by no means has *all* of my teaching been adults - I've taught everything from kindergarten to, uh, erm, folks my own age and older I've tutored one on one in a variety of subjects and sports. And I'll have to say, I still prefer the ones who ask questions, and the ones who do so just to delay and get in their own way are *really* in the minority. So, fortunately for me I guess, your mileage and mine, as well as I suspect, your viewpoint and mine, vary

You have a good summer, too -

Cathy

Edited to add the tutoring part, which I forgot to put in the first time!

Hi, Betty:

I tried advertising with brochures before, but it didn't get me the serious students I was looking for. I charge separately for theory classes.

My studio calendar is busy. Starting October, there's at least one event per month.

Well I prefer the question-askers too, I have to say. I've taught school as well, and found more of the nuisance questions there, because the kid is sometimes playing to the gallery . With one-to-one teaching there's no audience to impress. Offhand I can't think of any instance of questioning in the piano teaching situation which has been a nuisance. Often it's a breakthrough in finding out whether or not you've been understood. Just because you've explained something in a way which you think is clear that's no guarantee it's been understood. If you really investigate some of these "annoying" questions you might discover some fundamental misunderstanding. Better to discover it, I say. It's worth the time.

Wouldn't two sessions of 45 minute each be more effective? I suppose it depends on the attention span of the student, but I just think that separating the time would actually allow things to sink in better.

QUOTE]Wouldn't two sessions of 45 minute each be more effective? I suppose it depends on the attention span of the student, but I just think that separating the time would actually allow things to sink in better. [/QUOTE]
That would not work for me. The one hour is too short. 45 minutes would definitely be too short.

I guess it depends on the student. I originally suggested two 1-hour lessons per week for one of my advanced kids, but he prefers to get it done in one day. We just had our lesson yesterday, and by the end of the two hours, we still couldn't finish the last piece. For his level, the test requires four substantial pieces from different time periods, roughly 20 minutes in total length. I can't imagine what we'd have to do next year, when the test's requirement goes up to 5 pieces and 25 minutes total length.

I don't post much but I do read this forum every day and respect all the expertise and experience here.

First, I have enjoyed reading these posts and have gained much insight from everyone's ideas. Because of a situation that arose this summer I have had to redefine my policy on make-up lessons and this topic couldn't have been more timely. A HUGE thank you to all who posted. And a BIG thank you for guiding me to the article about an economist's view of music lessons. The information is invaluable!

Second, AZN, I relate to your conflict about preparing the advanced students for the CM exams. There is SO much to cover that a 1 hour lesson is hardly sufficient. I had a student at the advanced level last year (yep - had to prepare 5 pieces plus all the required theory) and we had a 2 hr lesson every other week. Now, this girl was highly motivated so I didn't worry about her not practicing - and since she travelled quite a distance for the lessons (over 40 mi one way) 2 lessons per month worked out fine for her. Unless a student is disciplined and committed, I wouldn't recommend that type of schedule. She passed everything with flying colors and received the coveted senior medallion. Hurray!

Having to teach the advanced theory certainly made me hit the books again!

The "ideal lesson" that I mentioned in my post was a generalization for you (that I gathered from your posts) and for other parents and students too that think that everything that is being worked on or being developed should be covered in one lesson, every week. Or more than one lesson in a weeks time.

I do not think this is necessary, unless you're preparing for a performance or evaluation, etc...

Much good can happen by not covering everything in one weeks lesson as I stated in my previous post.

I apologize if you took it wrong. I was not thinking of anything else, as far as an ideal lesson, but this.

Thank you Pianobuff, for explaining what was on your mind. We're still not picturing the same scenario, though. If we were to cover *everything* being worked on, that lesson would probably be 6 - 8 hours long.

This is where you have perhaps two or three major things, each of them needing at least half an hour to really work on them in a lesson.
This is where the misunderstanding arises - there is no "everything" in my mind.

I suspect that the fundamental nature of my lessons may be different, and I don't know whether the fact that it's a different instrument has a bearing.

Pianobuff makes a very good point...that not everything should be covered in a lesson because there are things that the student must work out on their own. I just told this to one of my adult students last night. He hadn't been practicing regularly (despite my attempts to encourage him to do more), and would come to his lessons feeling totally helpless because he didn't understand what he was supposed to play. This past week, he finally practiced more and his playing showed it. I explained to him that when you practice more, you are forced to find a solution to the problem, and those solutions are things that are better learned on your own rather than taught.

I had a student once who was the daughter of a pianist, and her progress was quite good, but I had some doubts about what she was learning because despite the fact that she would come to lessons with her music well learned, However, she didn't seem to understand the underlying theory very well, and whenever I had her sight read it really showed. After speaking with the mother, I discovered that the student would go to her whenever she ran into a little "snag" and her mother would show her what to do. I explained to the mom that this was actually not helping her to become an independent pianist because the process of figuring out the problems is so valuable. It was a bit of a tough transition for this student once her mom started saying, "Well, try to figure it out yourself, or wait until next week and ask you teacher." She didn't want to wait, of course, and so she figured it out herself.

My goal as a teacher is that every student I have can learn music on their own without anyone having to teach it to them. If they no longer need me, then I've done a good job.

I wish I'd have that "problem" to deal with!

For some of my younger students, their parents know nothing about music, so I have to teach both the mother and the student so that the mother can reinforce what I taught at home. This is especially true for theory. I wish they would teach some basic music theory at school, because so much repetition is needed to drill the info into the kids' brains.

The music in the schools in this area is pretty good about that. The kids at least know their tas and titis and can sometimes read treble clef notes. Most of them can sing somewhat in tune as well. However, I'm sure piano lessons help them in their music class a lot more than the other way around.

I'm well aware that many teachers have some kind of no refunds type policy for missed lessons. I can empathize with the added work, potential for reduced revenue, paying to 'reserve' a time slot (that could have otherwise gone to another student), scheduling difficulties and other related problems. No refunds serves as incentive for the students not to abuse the relationship, I understand that completely.

To those of you who have such policies, I would encourage you to also look at if these policies effectively work for you. Does it fix one problem, but perhaps create another? I can't help but wonder if some of you might be losing students because the policies (which serve you well), don't serve the student so well.

The reason I bring this up is because during the past two months, I've missed a lot of lessons due to work obligations. In July, I paid for five weekly lessons ($250). I showed up for one. I suppose the teacher could have had a no refund policy, in which case I would have paid the teacher $200 and received nothing in return. Had that happened, I would have seriously considered looking for another teacher, one who would accept fees for services actually rendered. All other things being equal, as a customer, which of the two would seem more attractive; a teacher who offers refunds (or makeup lessons) or one that doesn't. Maybe I'm lucky to have found one that was flexible, and what I experienced was uncommon.

The point I'm trying to make is that its good business to see what your competition is doing, especially if you are scratching your head wondering why you are losing (or not recruiting) more students than you think you should be.

Hope this post isn't offensive and, I'll reiterate, I understand completely why certain teachers have a no refund policy. However, I thought it might be helpful to offer the 'other side of the coin' perspective to help better run your business. Just some food for thought.

Akira,

If you were my student and told me in advance of this situation, I definately would have worked something out.

A no make-up policy does not mean there are no exceptions, more just a blanket rule to guard against being taken advantage of and/or running a non-effective studio.

Akira, just to expand a bit one what you've posted.

In my mind, there's a big difference between working with adults who have life commitments which cannot be ignored, and school children, whose life commitment should be their education, first and foremost, and this should be supported by the parents.

Most of us are now beginning the school year. We expect that our students (ages 1 - 19) are making a commitment to follow a curriculum and learn and participate throughout the school year. They are not coming to us for a lesson here and a lesson there, but to learn a course of instruction which leads to some level of proficiency.

Adults, on the other hand, generally have had some lessons and are looking for learning in specific areas. Of course, they could be wishing a similar course which their younger counterparts are following. I offer them a choice - payment by the lesson or a tuition plan.

There is a lot of talking past each other in this forum, some of which I wonder if it's not intentional. However, I digress. Students on a learning track of 36 lessons through the year are paying tuition, and it's formulated very much like any other educational institution. Students whose needs are for a la cart lessons can also study with me, but their lessons must not interfere with the main body of students. They fill in holes in the schedule, and if their preferred time is not available on a given week, no lesson is possible. They only pay for lessons received and of course, they must pay at the time of the lesson.

Certainly, I like most of the other teachers here, do my best to give them a rich and fulfilling lesson, but because of it's sporadic nature, it simply falls short of what a regular student receives. In effect, it's more of a master class, where I focus on one or two specific problems.

On the subject of missed lessons, think back to your days of studying educational psychology. Retention of learned skills doesn't decline arithmetically, but declines following a parabolic curve. Students who miss a week set themselves back more than a week, often two or three weeks. It's incredibly important that students make lessons every week, and practice daily. Jotur thinks of it as teachers maximizing income; I think of it as teachers helping students maximize learning. In other words, teachers with lax attendance policies are doing their students an incredible disservice.