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Pianobuff and Chris H

Thank you for your response.

My question was not to challenge anyones value on teaching. I'm sure if I were to ask anyone if they con\sidered themself a good instructor, all would say YES. Exceptional... maybe, but why not. In real life my job is to get our employees to evaluate what makes them better that average, better than our competition. Now we are not in the field of piano instruction but an appropriate topic, just the same. Yes there are many facets to being an exceptional instructor but your thoughts don't really matter if it is not shared by your students. So, what are those teachers doing that makes them exceptional instructors?

I'm sorry for running on but I am passionate about service quality and how to improve it and let's face facts, what you do is a service, would you not agree?

By the way, what you do is not easy and often appreciated even less by students. I know, I am an adult student and I see what my teacher goes through with some students.

Betty,

You asked what I was thinking at the time? Honestly, it had nothing to do about piano instruction or teaching or even judging who is an exceptional instructor and who is not. Actually I will be presenting a training series for a well known and respected pest control company on The Value of the Service. Setting You Apart From the Competition. As part of my research I posted questions to other similar industry types, ie lawn care, wildlife trappers, cable companies. Since I frequent the Piano Forum, with interest as an adult student, I thought I would post the question and read the responses. There was no intent of judgment... just interested in the responses. I must say, the responses were very interesting.

My hats off to all instructors, private and public. Often times your interest and passion to provide the best instruction is not well received, or appreciated, by students. Everyone on this forum, as far as I am concerned, is better than average and most likely exceptional simply because you see answers to questions, from fellow instructors and are seeking ways to improve your teaching and help students. I deeply respect each and everyone here.

I would say that on the whole I do a good job. That is based on the fact that I have a busy studio with mostly happy and successful students. Also, I do care about doing my best and would never assume that I can't improve. However I don't think about what makes me better than the competition. I might be and then again I might not be. Does it matter?

Judging a teacher on their students results or the way their students play can be deceptive.

Consider this:

Teacher A believes in giving everyone a chance. They are not particularly selective and welcome challenging students who might find learning difficult for whatever reason. Because they want to give their students opportunities they will enter them for recitals, competition and exams even when they know that those students will not win.

Teacher B doesn't want these students. They audition and only take the very best. Out of these the only ones they put in for competitions are the ones who they know will win. Obviously this will make the teacher look great because they teach the winners and the very best performers.

Who is the better teacher?

Well said Chris. I agree with you compeltely. Who is better?

Very true Chris.

I take back what I said about that being the way to judge if a teacher is good or not.

There are just too many variables.

Can I ask a question of the teachers who said Experience is a pre requisite of being a good teacher?

Is it safe to assume that if you take that statement at face value, then no new teacher can be a good teacher?

While I don't doubt that a good teacher who is constantly analysing their methods, honing their craft etc. will improve as a teacher over time, surely it is possible to be a good teacher without years and years of experience? Weren't they a good teacher to begin with?

The reason I ask about this specifically is that in my line of work and in many other professions I have come across, the number of years that someone has been doing something bears little correlation to the relative abilities of the people in that profession. In simple terms, you get just as many poor professionals who have been in their particular profession for a short time as have been doing it for a long number of years.

Or am I missing something?

Wayne723,

"The Value of the Service. Setting You Apart From the Competition" for your pest control customer, would be a revelation if written to represent a piano teacher!

I've spent 38 years trying to get my advertising, publicity, business card, and interview information and studio policy all written well to represent me, and then to have it entice prospective clients to enter study.

Well, I'm thinking from what you said that, what appeals to me as informative and good communication does not appear that way to the reader of my materials. You said: "Often times your interest and passion to provide the best instruction is not well received, or appreciated, by students."

I can understand that and accept that.

If I were to take away all the processes to introductions and information sharing, would it make a big difference/improvement from their point of view?

I really believe there is a responsibility to the student that parents and the teacher can work together to insure success, and that is part of my agenda in communication, to promote the parent's role.

I think the big objection would be that it doesn't seem "natural" and it seems "demanding of them on my part" and "it's time consuming".

I had an interview recently of a 5 year old with 3 semesters of Kindermusic, the referral was from the Kindermusic teacher. After spending a lesson time working at the piano with the child, I related to the mother and father what I had seen in the time I'd worked with their daughter, and the strengths and weakness (small sized person, wobbly fingers, not able to hold hand in a stable position, and fingers that did not yet respond well, important to build this first, and little things like her accuracy and consistancy in what we were doing, and her avid participation. The Dad fell asleep and missed the interaction, and Mom asked all these questions, and finally said: "This is a bit further than we wanted to come for lessons" and that they had "another" piano teacher to interview with this week, and I gave 2 more referrals to teachers closer to them.

I bet you can sell people on pest control services better than I can sign up interviews.

Actually, I want them to find their best teacher for their circumstances, so it's not the conflict with me that it seems. I'm just relating about communication end of it, I wonder if they missed the fact that I had identified lots of things that were taking place during this lesson, and what I'd learned about their daughter. That didn't seem to factor for them.

It may be that I can learn a whole lot from this particular topic and the posting here and from you Wayne723!

Hmmmm. Maybe the fact that the parent is getting this information one on one is too much pressure for them.

I'll always remember KISS. I don't seem to have achieved that at all! :rolleyes:

Betty

Betty,

I have read many of your posts and, even though I do not know you personally, I believe you are a very good instructor. I hope your students feel the same.

You said..."Hmmmm. Maybe the fact that the parent is getting this information one on one is too much pressure for them."

My question to you is... are you selling or providing opportunities to buy? We realize that custoemrs don't like being sold but love to buy. We actually sell more business when we get customers to visualize the results through various purchasing options. Maybe this can work for you.

I agree. Although, we should learn through experience, I certainly have.

Being a good teacher does take talent, a calling, just like any other profession.

Either you have it or you don't. If you were not any good at what you do, why would you stick with it? Or how could you stick with it... You would be fired! The same holds true for piano teachers. If you're not any good, unless people just don't know any better, how in the world could you make a living at it, be happy, and be successful!

I guess we know that we're good teachers if our students stick with us for years on end and you have a full studio with happy parents and children.

You also know that you are successful if, with time, a student auditions to study music in college and gets accepted. Or if a student ends up composing, or playing just for enjoyment, but does play well.

This is where experience does come into play, knowing that you are capable of doing a great service, but you won't know this until you see the rewards of your efforts, which does take some years.

Hi Wayne,

I think understand now from your response to Betty. Are you talking about how us teachers handle the business/professional side of things in order to sell our "product" in the case it would be piano lessons?

Wayne,

I think I understand now from your response to Betty.

Are you talking about how us teachers handle the business/professional side of things in order to sell our "product" in this case it would be piano lessons?

And thank you for your kind words. I hope I didn't sound too gruff, but I did not quite understand your original post.

Sometimes I can act like my Avatar looks! Not quite getting it... No reflection on my teaching of course!

Pianobuff,

I have deep respect for anyone who teaches, and does it well. To inspiring and guide someone to achieve a level of success is a gift that most people find difficult to do. There was a saying I recall... Everyone can instruct but only teachers inspire.

This post has taken a slight twist along it's journey. At first I just wanted to know how teachers measure themselves. A subjective question? Yes. Is there a standard to say what is exceptional and what is not? No, which is why I thought it would be an interesting topic for discussion.

Then a question came up and I guess I diverted to the business aspect of teaching, ie sales and marketing, which can be a separate topic of discussion.

"I hope I didn't sound too gruff, but I did not quite understand your original post."

No offense taken. Your responses show your passion for what you do. Nothing wrong about that. If I may ask, How long have you been a teacher and what do you find most enjoyable about teaching?

When I was a young engineer with a manufacturing company (Fortune 35 at the time) it took me a long time to "get" customer focus. They sent me to all sorts of Quality Management training, but i had a hard time getting past the idea that as a smart engineer from one of the top universities I probably knew more than the customer about what he needed. It did sink in, eventually.

I'm alluding to a problem of definition here. Good teacher at doing precisely what?

I like Betty's paragraph. It gives us a meaningful and definable (though subjective) outcome by which we could judge teaching.

If, however, that is what the customer is looking for. And that may not be the case.

I would suggest it is the case for a minority of students, and then we could explore this idea further.

For the other students, the goal is different, and the measurement of success must be different.

Perhaps the teachers in the top 10% for one type are well under that mark for the other type.

It is off topic, but the observation itself, that so many leave before success, is telling. It is a hard journey, and not rewarding until a long way down the road. Is there a way to change that?

I would argue that most people really don't know any better, and that somebody could do quite well while doing a mediocre job because of being charismatic. All because the average person doesn't really know mediocre work from the great stuff.

You could put three dance instructors in front of me and I would probably not know who's a better dancer, let alone be able to judge how well they could teach it.

This would be a pretty good definition of politics!

Wayne 723 and TimR:

I had said: "Hmmmm. Maybe the fact that the parent is getting this information one on one is too much pressure for them. "

Wayne723: To Betty
"My question to you is... are you selling or providing opportunities to buy? We realize that custoemrs don't like being sold but love to buy. We actually sell more business when we get customers to visualize the results through various purchasing options. Maybe this can work for you."

TimR: To Betty
"If, however, that is what the customer is looking for. And that may not be the case."

Thank you both!

I can see that the interview meets my needs but I'm again understanding that I need to consider making this a marketing target with selling points so that the bottom line is connection to move forward together.

Lately I've been missing the mark, where previously my interviews brought immediate connection and entry into the studio. It's like a whole new ball game out there in this economy and troubled times. Instead of aiming to comprehensive understanding of the stucture of my lessons and the organization of my piano teaching service business - I need to be focusing on easy entry - perhaps a trial period of 10 lessons - during which we learn about each other in an Introductory Program.

The information packet of year round study and the tuition payment plan could come at the end of 10 lessons.

During this initial time we would be learning about each other and what it feels like to have piano lesson commitments in the family schedule, the practicing requirement, and overall, the progress that has been made in 10 weeks. In other words, the free interview has now been replaced by the 10 lesson package as the starter.

I have given a free introductory lesson for beginners and transfer students for many, many years. I could change my strategy making it easy to step into the program and to live with it for a period of time before making a longer commitment for study.

Am I getting it? Is this practical? Does anyone see more options?

This topic has become quite helpful to me and given me something to seriously examine.

Betty

I think we've had this discussion before. It entails the congruency of customer (parent) and teacher (service provider) goals.

I would guess that Betty is somewhat oriented towards helping a dedicated and talented student achieve true success, both technically and musically. Obviously not all of her students fit that pattern and she is likely skilled at dealing with the others, but that would be her prime focus.

I would also guess that today's average parent has no particular desire to have that happen. We put our children in piano lessons because the public school system has largely abandoned music education, and we think music should be part of a well rounded student's development, just like we think they all should have some math even if few become physicists or engineers.

I would wonder then if over time the proportion of students in category A vs B has shifted quite far to the latter. If so, that would explain Betty's recent results. The "Voice of the Customer" (that's a technical term from Lean Six Sigma, but you see what it means) has changed pitch.

Yes, I can see another option. You said "live with it for a period of time BEFORE making a longer commitment." Replace Before with Or. And treat the two groups of students quite differently.

If I had an interview with you, and you told me your teaching skills were so good that if my child put in X hours of work per day you could guarantee admission to a music conservatory, something no other teacher in a three state area could do, I'd be puzzled: why would I want that?

Or, I could be totally off base, it's happened before!

Thanks for the response, TimR!

Let me reply to: "If I had an interview with you, and you told me your teaching skills were so good that if my child put in X hours of work per day you could guarantee admission to a music conservatory, something no other teacher in a three state area could do, I'd be puzzled: why would I want that?"

That kind of talk from me does not exist - I don't say things I haven't delivered on - but I can see that recently how I handled the interviews didn't give them anything to latch on to as being instantly desirable.

Also, I usually say, take your time in choosing a teacher as the first teacher has a lot of responsibility for the basic foundation of your child's music possibilities.

My "old presentation" doesn't suit "today's customers". I think I would get better response by doing all acceptance, scheduling and payment up front from a website, which requires a financial transaction. Impersonal and non-threatening and certainly not time consuming on my part.

I've seen some sites like this and thought how "cold", but maybe that is what it has to be before it warms up to personal results such as progress, success and accomplishments and future committments.

You are helping me a lot - it's a "frame of mind". As Dr. Phil would ask, "How's that working for you, Betty?"

Betty

I agree, and that was kind of where I was coming from. While a good teacher will learn and develop with experience, having lots of experience in itself is not a true measure of how good a teacher someone is.

I have 1st hand knowledge of an experienced teacher who is far from being a good teacher despite years of experience and a full appointment book. In this particular example, it can be easily explained by a very simple line I was once introduced to by an extremely successful sales professional.

"Look the part and act the part, and you become the part."

In other words, the vast majority of people will assume that you are what you say you are and you know what you're doing if you believe it yourself, no matter how wrong you might be.

The reason that experience being mentioned always gets my attention as I often see it being used as a barrier to people who otherwise might make good or even great teachers, but they are made to feel that this isn't possible because they don't have the necessary "experience".

No amount of experience can make up for a lack of ability and skill.

Hey everybody,

I love the responses. Maybe not a typical post for this forum but wow, can't say it hasn't generated a variety of responses.

Gerry, Tim, K and RC1 good stuff. Thanks

Betty, our company has had very good success at obtaining new customers and retaining them for a number of years, by offering "trial" programs. We know that once the customer experiences our service we have them for awhile.

We just have to present a program that they are comfortable with. For example: Mrs. Patnude, I know you have been talking to other pest control companies, and service can get expensive. I want your business so here is what I will do for you. I will give you a full 90 day trial program to try. It includes full pest protection, including termite montoring, two seasonal applications, free callback service, should a problem develop, a customized service report with each service we provide and, if you are not satisfied with our work, I refund your introductory service fee.

Now what is my competition offering? A $500 - 600.00 yearly program based on a signed contract.

Who do you think gets more business?