Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Collective noun for sharps and flats?

Thanks Yak for your collective noun “shift” ... IMHO right on the money ... the process of moving up or down off the original stave note is a “SHIFT”. .. no more, nor less ... but it will be another thing to persuade the boffins that a

“shift-rich” key signature

(meaning those signatures with 7 sharps or flats)
is acceptable jargon when wanting to say

“key signatures rich in the number of sharps and flats”.

David:
Wow, my innocuous little C flat comment arouses such passion. I love it.

I obviously couldn't let such an outrageous statement pass unnoticed!

Yours enharmonically,

-Michael B.

Wish I could speak Norwegian to be able to pick up on Ragnhild’s positive lead regarding a collective noun for sharps and flats ... her suggestion of “fortegn” (something like a pre-sign) ... and interesting adding how out of place the word “accidentals” sounds.

Wikipedia tells us all about “fortegn” ... but unless you’re fond of skiing and have, during snowy visits picked up the lingo ... the Wiki blurb in Norwegian is about as comprehensible as double-Dutch (whatever that means).

this is my favorite answer in the whole thread.

I do agree with Ragnhild that the Norwegians appear to have dealt with the issue in a most logical manner.

In the UK the collective term is 'Flarps'.

Wouldn't it just be an accidental that would therefore change a major scale to a minor.

I'll still vote for "Flarps".
(That is the best one yet!)

Diane
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Blues/Jazz/Rock/Boogie Piano Teacher

Flarps? What about naturals? Flarpurals?

Flarps?

Well, that beats the cr@p out of "shats." :p

What a merry chase!

“Flarps” sounds like the undignified splash of an obese poltroon not wanting to get a hair-do wet.

But who was the clown who came up with the name accidentals? We’re all so used to the misnomer that we don’t blanch at the blatant inaccuracy of the term.

An “accident” by definition is an “unexpected event/mishap” ... how then can the 5 notes outside any scale bear the yoke of being dismissed as accidentals ... especially when the so-called accidental Eb (in C major) is the very spice which epitomises the C minor scale.

How about a collective noun for bankers?

Would that be a wunch? LOL

Regards
Keith

In that case the word 'accidental' seems to work quite nicely doesn't it?

If you are reading music in the key of C Major then any #'s or b's could be considered an unexpected event.

As far as I know accidentals were first used in the 9th Century. Gregorian chant was based on 6 note patterns (hexachords), one of which included the note Bb. F,G,A,Bb,C,D was known as the soft hexachord. All the accidental signs used today are apparently derived from the letter B.

I don't know when the word 'accidental' was first used to describe notes outside of the key signature.

...or shats?

Technically wouldn't we have to have;

sharps
flats
naturals
AND double sharps (x) in the word?

Diane
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Blues/Jazz/Rock/Boogie Piano Teacher

So if we add "double sharps" we get,

"floublaturals" or "floublurarps" or "floubluraturalarps".

Diane
_________________________________

Blues/Jazz/Rock/Boogie Piano Teacher

So now I can be on the money ... and instead of saying “key signatures rich in the number of sharps and flats" I can blurt out
“key signatures rich in the number of "floubluraturalarps"... any takers?

The only problem with that is that key signatures include either sharps OR flats. So your key signature is rich in sharps or it is rich in flats. I imagine this is because they are two different things hence no collective noun. There is no collective noun for chalk and cheese.

Too true ... I've just made myself a toasted cheese and tomato snack ... left out the chalk
but added a dab of Mrs. Balls famous chutney ... delicious!! not long before the Springboks take on England at Bloemfontein.

All jokes aside, the word is accidentals. Let's bring up your dictionary definition again:

“A sign indicating a
DEPARTURE FROM THE KEY SIGNATURE,
by the momentary raising or lowering of a note by means of a sharp, flat, double-sharp, double-flat or natural.”

If there were no key signature (or simply a "key signature" with no sharps or flats, if you like), you would have to write the accidentals, in the score (as departures from the current "key signature"), as composers did in the past. It was obviously quite tedious to be continually writing in the same accidentals, so it was decided to put them at the beginning of the piece as the key signature - the accidentals were given up front so everyone knew what they were at the start and played them accordingly. If other sharps or flats (or natural signs) were needed, they, of course, would have to be written in the score as they occured, since they obviously were not in the key signature. See? Sharps and flats' function as departures from the key signature does not preclude them from occuring in the key signature, so the term, accidentals, is the appropriate one when discussing them collectively, at least in the abstract.

Did the "accidental" police just walk in
an we are all "under a Rest".

Couldn't resist just one more joke. My apology!

Seriously, we all know that, but were just having a little fun! No harm intended.

Diane
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Blues/Jazz/Rock/Boogie Piano Teacher

Harmosis, whilst the majority of us would agree with your accurate description I feel you will have a hard time convincing btb. We have been here many times in the past. :rolleyes: